What DRY FIRING does to a Spanish Double

[Float Pilot]

A client dropped off his 1970s ear Spanish Double 20 gauge because it was not firing. It took awhile to remove the firing pin bushings because he had dry fired it so much he had beat one bushing's threads and jammed it into the receiver.
One firing pin barely works and the other was beaten to death. Here are pics.

Now I need to either make a couple new pins or try to find something close. The gun is junk with some corrosion issues, but it has sentimental value to him.

 

[rcmodel]

Purfect!!!

I would have expected the tip to break.

But the sharp 90 degree angle cut at the flange created a prefect stress riser for it to break there instead.

Make a small radius cut at the base of the flange to prevent it breaking again.

And tell the Dumas to stop dry-firing it!!!

Rc

 

[Virginian]

Has he ever heard of snap caps? They were originally invented for doubles.

 

[Crawdad1]

A common complaint of Spanish shotguns improperly hardened or untreated internal parts?

 

[Float Pilot]

Yes indeed. There are actually pits in some of the internal metal parts which are not corrosion pits but rather poor quality steel with some serious imperfections.

 

[Crawdad1]

Yes indeed. There are actually pits in some of the internal metal parts which are not corrosion pits but rather poor quality steel with some serious imperfections.

Are some of their steel parts that bad??? I always wanted a Spanish double especially one of their sidelocks as they are beautiful and at a half deceit price, but I just never trusted them. And apparently for good reason.

 

[oneounceload]

They were at one point when all or most of the makers formed DIARMS as a way to save the small gunmakers. That eventually failed. AyA, Grulla, Arrietta and Arrizabalaga make some of the finest shotguns (SxS) in the world rivaling the quality of the English "Best Guns" at a fraction of the price. At a fraction does NOT mean Mossberg pricing; what it means is that an $80K English gun can be had for about $12-$15K and the $25-$35K English guns will rin about $4-$6K

 

[Virginian]

Many years ago I bought a cheap lightweight 20 gauge Spanish SxS and did a lot of quail hunting with it. Handled like a dream. When I took it apart to clean it I was shocked at the internals. I couldn't believe how well it functioned as rough as everything was, but the hardness was evidently not an issue. Used it for years until the wild quail went away and I became a serious waterfowler.

 

[Hillbillyz]

Would you turn new parts for that, or is it possibly to order them somewhere?

 

[Float Pilot]

This little 20 gauge was made by Armas Marixa which was located in Eibar, Spain. They made many mid to lower quality boxlock guns for import to the US in the late 1950s thru the 1960s.
This one has a date code for being made in 1963.


Here are a couple photos of the metal work. Note that the rear trigger has a hollow spot inside that has rusted through.

 

[rcmodel]

That's not a rusted hollow spot.
That's ingenious weight reduction design & engineering!!!

rc

 

[Float Pilot]

Couple more pics

 

[Onmilo]

It isn't just Spanish doubles that exhibit poor metallurgy.
Very few of the old and very popular "Hardware Store" side by sides remain in circulation and even fewer are actually in good enough shape to be considered safe to fire.

These old American made SXS guns were rode hard, put away wet, and when pump shotguns became the must have waterfowl blaster many were handed down to the kids as play toys.

Many if not most of these old hulks went broken and unusable into the scrap tubs during the WW2 metal drives.

 

[Float Pilot]

I will probably have to make a couple new pins. Even the pin that still works looks like the end is being peened from being hit by the hammer. Too bad I cannot find another set of pins that are slightly oversized so I could, quickly slim them down.
This time of year I really need to be working on my plane and floats.

 

[illinoisburt]

Zabala 1220830D at Numrich may be pretty darned close. Might want to give them a call to verify dimensions.

 

[Jim K]

I would make those firing pins out of 1/4 inch drill rod and harden them. Then I would tell the owner to never dry fire without snap caps. If he brought the gun back for damage through ignoring my advice, I would refuse to work on it. (I would be tempted to wrap it around his head, but that would be assault.)

The trouble with buying factory replacements, even if they were available, is that they would be made by the same people and would be no better.

For many years, Spanish shotguns were made on a cottage industry basis. The "factory" made castings or forgings. Then they took a basket full of them to Pedro, who had a bunch of files and gauges, and Pedro's family sat around and filed the parts to fit the gauge. When that batch was done, Pedro took the parts back, got paid, and picked up more castings or forgings.

The parts were then again fitted by the factory to work in one (and only one) shotgun. When the American gunsmith ordered parts from the factory or the importer, he got the rough cast or forged parts and had to do the filing and fitting (ask me how I know!) at a lot higher wage than Pedro got.

The customer then went ballistic when charged $50 or more for a sear when he could buy a Remington 870 sear for a buck.

Jim

 

[Float Pilot]

I have some firing pin rods. BUT, As I said,,, I need to be turning wrenches on my plane for this seasons float flying. We had a VERY EARLY thaw and I can put the plane into the water as soon as I can strip and re-paint my float bottoms, ( plus find a couple leaking rivets.)
I used boat hull cleaner last fall and it ate about half my paint off my float bottoms. We had a very sunny summer last year and the lake had all sorts of weird stuff growing in it....

 

[illinoisburt]

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1220830D.htm

Should be close to if not the correct part. I've found makers go out of business and others buy their tooling to keep producing essentially the same guns under different brands.

 

[rcmodel]

Float pilot?

How do you find leaking rivets????

Pressurize the floats and spray soap bubbles on them???

rc

 

[Float Pilot]

Yeap, reverse shop vac and a bottle of soapy water. Just mark them with a pencil and then let the fun begin....

 

[rcmodel]

Sounds like a very clean process!

rc

 

[Float Pilot]

Well I have sent photos and request to Bobs Gun parts a few times now with NO ANSWER.

I am just too friggin busy to sit around making two new pins. The more I look at the functioning pin I can see that it is deformed from its original shape. Plus it is no longer straight.

 

[Float Pilot]

Well I could not find any so I used my smaller drill press as a vertical lathe and made a couple out of Brownell firing pin stock. SEE PIC

They work just fine.

One hammer was not dropping all the way because part of the broken pin had wedged itself inside and had been beaten against the internal guts a few times.
I fixed that with a wee bit of stone work.

I told the owner it was ready and he told me that he never dry fires this old gal. So maybe 50 years of use just finally made the pin snap off.

 

[MCgunner]

My old Felix Sarasqueta (Eiber, Spain...defunct) still (knock on wood) shoots fine. I haven't used it much since the advent of steel shot laws on waterfowl, but I've been taking it woods bumming more lately. It was used heavily for 10 years, then steel shot retired it from waterfowling. It was once a very nicely fitted and finished gun, but 10 years in salt marshes riding in boats kinda did a number on the finish. Still functional, though. The fore grip split, so I drilled it and glued a dowel in place. It was a cheap gun, though, in 1971. The amazing thing about this gun is the barrel regulation. It still shoots like an expensive double rifle. You put the gun on target and it will shoot there. Kicks like hell with slugs, but shoots straight with 'em.