What is the better Battle Rifle Caliber?
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The-Reaver
Member
why do anything other than 7.62x51/308?
its the best rounded caliber in the world.
its the best rounded caliber in the world.
If you really want to wrap your head around it, in terms of stock battle rifles, I think the best battle rifle I've ever handled is a strange choice, and therefore the 7.5x55 French cartridge is the best. And yes, I have a FAL. And no, I did not have crack for breakfast.
Now the Greatest Battle Rifle ever is & General George S. Patton will disagree with me on this one is the ENFIELD !
Jeff F
Member
As a fellow Enfield shooter I agree with that statement, and will add that the .303 British cartridge is nothing to sneeze at. It will hold its own with all the other battle rifle cartridges.
TenMillimaster
Member
Nah, The 30-06 can do anything the 308 can do, and then some.
The-Reaver
Member
Tenmillimaster; Then why did the ( all knowing ) government drop its contract and move to 308
I know the answer do you?
And what I think you mean is 308 can do everything 30-06 with out the need of the extra " side effects "
I know the answer do you?
And what I think you mean is 308 can do everything 30-06 with out the need of the extra " side effects "
Snowbandit
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Not a battle rifle round but, the October issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement has an interesting article on the new 7.62X40 round. It might have some promise as an assault rifle round particularly for entry weapons.
Cosmoline
Member
I like the ballistic possibilities of the 6.5 and 6.8, but for an *actual* battle I'd want a warthog's cannon opening up on the guy trying to kill me.
Seriously, any hand carried firearm is going to be a major compromise and unlikely to be of much help to you.
Seriously, any hand carried firearm is going to be a major compromise and unlikely to be of much help to you.
Creature
Member
I'll take the M1 Garand and call it a day.
Vern Humphrey
Member
No battle rifles are chambered in those cartridges -- they are chambered in Assault Rifles. An assault rifle is defined as a rifle chambered for an intermediate cartridge and capable of full auto fire.
Battle rifles are chambered for full power cartridges -- .30-06, 7.62X51 NATO and so on.
Strykervet
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The 7.62 is THE battle rifle calibre --the default calibre for which almost all battle rifles come in. Then I would assume that calibres based on and/or similar to that round would be considered battle rifle rounds. You only list one, so I'll go with the Creedmore.
There is also the 6.5x47 Lapua (similar to Creedmore) the .338 Remington, my favorite one for closer range targets, .260 Remington, .243 and .270 could also be considered such. Personally, I like the 6.5mm rounds simply because the BC is much higher.
Grendel works in an AR platform, but it actually performs closer to the battle rifle rounds. Good to 1000m. I guess that is really what makes a round battle vs. assault. Assault cartridges are generally good to 300-600 depending, the battle rifle rounds usually good to 1000. The Grendel sort of straddles the line, and is what I have in 20". I like that it has that range, power, and all in a small light package that I am familiar with.
The 6.8 is just an advanced assault rifle round. Works good inside its intended range, but I'd rather have the Grendel as it will do the same thing plus go much farther. The .338 Remington, though fired from battle rifles, sort of straddles the line too, but the other way. It is good inside assault rifle ranges, but has more power than the .308. Interesting round, I think it would be good in a 16" AR10.
bigedp51, have you ever used the M9, M4, or M249? I've been issued all three at some point and carried them all miles. I've (honestly) shot targets regularly with the M4 at 600m, the SAW at 800m and 1000m, and the M9 at 200m. I'm not a personal fan of the M9, but it is a fine weapon.
There is also the 6.5x47 Lapua (similar to Creedmore) the .338 Remington, my favorite one for closer range targets, .260 Remington, .243 and .270 could also be considered such. Personally, I like the 6.5mm rounds simply because the BC is much higher.
Grendel works in an AR platform, but it actually performs closer to the battle rifle rounds. Good to 1000m. I guess that is really what makes a round battle vs. assault. Assault cartridges are generally good to 300-600 depending, the battle rifle rounds usually good to 1000. The Grendel sort of straddles the line, and is what I have in 20". I like that it has that range, power, and all in a small light package that I am familiar with.
The 6.8 is just an advanced assault rifle round. Works good inside its intended range, but I'd rather have the Grendel as it will do the same thing plus go much farther. The .338 Remington, though fired from battle rifles, sort of straddles the line too, but the other way. It is good inside assault rifle ranges, but has more power than the .308. Interesting round, I think it would be good in a 16" AR10.
bigedp51, have you ever used the M9, M4, or M249? I've been issued all three at some point and carried them all miles. I've (honestly) shot targets regularly with the M4 at 600m, the SAW at 800m and 1000m, and the M9 at 200m. I'm not a personal fan of the M9, but it is a fine weapon.
Don't hold back bigedp51, tell us how you really feel
As the .276 Pedersen was originally to be the caliber of the M1 Garand, using 10-round en-bloc magazines incidently, running at approximately 2400fps with 140gr. projectiles and labeled as the greatest battle rifle ever designed(along with the M14), and as the .280 British is the culmination of lessons learned by them during WWII launching a 139gr. bullet at approximately 2500fps, they figured these two calibers were to be the new "battle rifle" calibers during their time.
As the 6.8spc can launch a 115gr. projectile at 2650fps from a cartridge with an overall case length of just over 2".......I'm sold on my "battle rifle" caliber/cartridge.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Halfway silly question to start with. Too many variants as to "battle rifle" since Patton's day. Too many variants in warfare scenarios. And then there are the different battle doctrines among armies.
Some variant of the M16 is the main battle rifle of the US; that's what's most issued. Last I saw, Mexican soldiers carry an FAL-looking critter.
There seem to be to be differences for "better" if the scenario involves wide open country compared to house-cleaning in a city.
At the time of the introduction of the M16, US doctrine was for infantry to control their immediate vicinity to some 200 meters and use the radio as the primary weapon to call in artillery or air.
Russian doctrine was for infantry to advance with tanks, using their primary weapon in the final assault on fixed positions. Close-range shooting. For this, the AK 47 works well.
Some variant of the M16 is the main battle rifle of the US; that's what's most issued. Last I saw, Mexican soldiers carry an FAL-looking critter.
There seem to be to be differences for "better" if the scenario involves wide open country compared to house-cleaning in a city.
At the time of the introduction of the M16, US doctrine was for infantry to control their immediate vicinity to some 200 meters and use the radio as the primary weapon to call in artillery or air.
Russian doctrine was for infantry to advance with tanks, using their primary weapon in the final assault on fixed positions. Close-range shooting. For this, the AK 47 works well.
kwelz
Member
Wow talk about having no knowledge of what you are talking about.
I know plenty of people who have been in Iraq and Afghanistan. None of them have had any trouble with 5.56 lethality or effectiveness.
Armchair co,man does seem to have this idea that the 7.62xwhatever is some magic bullet. But guess what, it isn't. The x39 is an ok close in round but has no more lethality than 5.56. The x51 is just a lot of added weight that you don't need where most engagements happen. Take a poll of knowledgeable people who have been in the sandbox and I guarantee you that they would take the 5.56 ever time instead of an overweight, overpowered rifle in 7.62x51.
Kwelz:
Armchair commandos?
Guarantees?
7.62 whatever over weight and overpowered?
Magic bullets?
Baloney.
7.62x51mm weapons have always been in the inventory....right along with the more recent 5.56mm weapons. ( Same goes for 7.62x54mm weapons along with 7.62x39mm and 5.45mm)
There is a reason as to why most military/paramilitary organizations world wide utilize them....even though it would be more cost efficient and easier for logistics to settle on one.
None of them have supernatural qualities...... (C'mon now son....)
Been deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq multiple times myself. I'm deployed here right now. (Infantry lifer here)
One fully loaded M14 20rd magazine weighs in at 1.5lbs even. If this is too heavy for a current Infantryman, then they should really consider re class to another MOS, as this same weight and then some rolls into 5.56mm weapons such as the M249 and M4/M203..... concerning battle loads.
They all have a purpose, so bashing one in an attempt to justify another shows lack of knowledge regarding any of them.
If this thread is about the latest and greatest shoot um up video game, then disregard all of the above and contact the company that made said game to find out more details.
11B
Armchair commandos?
Guarantees?
7.62 whatever over weight and overpowered?
Magic bullets?
Baloney.
7.62x51mm weapons have always been in the inventory....right along with the more recent 5.56mm weapons. ( Same goes for 7.62x54mm weapons along with 7.62x39mm and 5.45mm)
There is a reason as to why most military/paramilitary organizations world wide utilize them....even though it would be more cost efficient and easier for logistics to settle on one.
None of them have supernatural qualities......
(C'mon now son....)Been deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq multiple times myself. I'm deployed here right now. (Infantry lifer here)
One fully loaded M14 20rd magazine weighs in at 1.5lbs even. If this is too heavy for a current Infantryman, then they should really consider re class to another MOS, as this same weight and then some rolls into 5.56mm weapons such as the M249 and M4/M203..... concerning battle loads.
They all have a purpose, so bashing one in an attempt to justify another shows lack of knowledge regarding any of them.
If this thread is about the latest and greatest shoot um up video game, then disregard all of the above and contact the company that made said game to find out more details.
11B
Last edited:
kwelz
Member
First off thank you for your service. But yes overweight and overpowered. I am not saying they don't have a use but not as the standard issue weapon. In that role there is no reason to go with a 7.62 weapon.
It isn't just about a 1 fully loaded mag. It is about the overall kit weight. 1st off the gun is going to weigh more. Then you have ammo. Say your standard load is 180 rounds. Your ammo weight for 7.62x51 is going to be near 14 pounds. For 5.56 it is going to be around 6. Things like that add up real fast. And lethality at 300 meters is going to be the same so why have extra weight.
And by the way I have no use for people who base their weapon opinions off of video games any more than you do.
It isn't just about a 1 fully loaded mag. It is about the overall kit weight. 1st off the gun is going to weigh more. Then you have ammo. Say your standard load is 180 rounds. Your ammo weight for 7.62x51 is going to be near 14 pounds. For 5.56 it is going to be around 6. Things like that add up real fast. And lethality at 300 meters is going to be the same so why have extra weight.
And by the way I have no use for people who base their weapon opinions off of video games any more than you do.
bigedp51
member
My father was retired Navy, I spent four years in the USAF and eight years in the Air National Guard until I could no longer pass the physical. On top of this I worked at a military overhaul depot for 38 years and was around U.S. Military and Exchange Military personnel my entire life.
It took the U.S. Government two years to get HUMVEE armor to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and your going to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. The military didn't design the M16 rifle it was shoved down our throats by the Secretary of Defense Robert Strange McNamara who thought you could run the military like he had run the Ford motor Company.
Your going to tell someone he doesn't know what he is talking about who was born in 1950 which was the first birth year of the draft lottery with a draft number of 332 out of 365, are you nuts. With a draft number of 332 I never would have been drafted and top of this my feet were so flat I was 4F and ineligible for military service. With the help of my Congressman and family doctor I was given a medical waiver to serve my country and you are going to say I don't know what I'm taking about.
Let me tell you something, the M-16 was a piece of crap when it came out and was first used in Viet Nam, and it is still a piece of crap to this day. This is coming from someone who shot the early M16s and from talking to troops coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan who were stationed at the base I worked at.
Arm chair commandos my gluteus maximus, there is no substitute for bullet weight. And if you can hide behind small jungle trees and mud walls in the desert and not be hit by bullets from a M16 you are using a little mouse gun caliber rifle that should have never been accepted in the first place.
Arm chair commando you horses a$$, please look at a small peace of history I carried in my wallet for years. You will never guess where this red/orange peace of tail came from.
Its the Air Evac C-141 I worked on many times, not bad for a flat foot who didn't have to serve but chose to do so.
Clark AFB the Philippines 1973 which had the largest Hospital in the Pacific for treating the American wounded coming from Viet Nam.
kwelz
Member
Sorry but despite the service you have had you are wrong. I talk to a lot of people who have been over there and many who still are there. Nne of them have any complaints about the M4 or the 5.56. In fact the people who complain about it tend to be the ones who never actually use them in combat.
Comments such as the rounds bouncing back and hitting the shooter and calling the current weapon (which is the M4 not M16) crap belies your ignorance of the issue.
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