what model iver johnson do I have?

[ercnjasmine]

Hi, I have a Iver Johnson 5 shot .38 special that I have no idea what model it is. I got it in a trade awhile back and had the hammer mounted firing pin repaired to return to working condition. The only markings other than caliber and Iver Johnson's, Fitchburg Mass USA, is J10232. Its a double action, however it doesn't have a swing out cylinder. It has what I assume it bakelite grips, stamped IJ. Also, it has adjustable rear sights. Anyone have an idea?

 

[Coyote3855]

You might post this in Firearms Research section. I don't know what you have, but it's an odd duck. I believe that most if not all old IJs were .38 S&W, not .38 Special despite what it says on the barrel. Also, the grips usually have an owl's head trade mark, and all the early IJs I've seen had fixed sights. Could be someone put this together from parts as the barrel and cylinder look different from the frame. Usually there would be additional Iver Johnson markings on the top of the barrel. I would NOT shoot it until you've had a gunsmith check it out.

 

[Old Fuff]

No, it's not a "parts gun" or "odd duck." It's a post-World War Two Iver Johnson "pull-pin" revolver, chambered in .38 S&W (not S&W Special). "Pull-pin" means you have to pull out the cylinder pin and use it to eject fired cases. The basic design goes back to the 1800's, and its popularity was based on the fact it was the least expensive revolver in the IJ line. When the lowest cost was a major factor this is what you picked.

Since this is Christmas morning I'll look up additional details later.

 

[ercnjasmine]

coyote, I've had it checked out by a gunsmith, thats how i got the firing pin fixed. Also got the ok to shoot it from him. Thanks for the concern though.

old fuff, thanks for what you've already told me. I haven't been able to get anywhere with it. Have a Merry Christmas

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Some sources will call this a Cadet while others say Cadets have only fixed sights or .22 only... etc... you get the picture. There is one fella that had one for sale with the original box and both had numbers not far from yours. The box called it a Cadet model 1382 or 1328, can't remember which. Is there no writing on the top strap of your revolver ahead of the rear sight?

 

[Coyote3855]

Old Fuff, if you zoom in on the second picture, the barrel is stamped .38 Spl., not .38 S&W. I thought most post war IJs had the owl head grips? As Apache says, the images I can find of Cadets all have fixed sights. Odd to put adjustable sights on the bottom line of revolvers. That and the barrel marking made me think something is amiss. Did IJ ever make a .38 S&W Special chambering?

ercnjasmine, did the smith tell what cartridges to use in it? 38 S&W or .38 S&W Special?

 

[ercnjasmine]

I was told to go with specials for it, just not any of the new +p stuff in it.
ApacheCoTodd- there isn't any other writing on the gun except as already described. This little gun has put me in fits trying to figure it out.

 

[JohnBT]

It's an IJ American Bulldog. It's one of their modern guns, made from 1974 to 1976. I found it in the 1999 Standard Catalog of Firearms.

They were made in .22 to .38 and with 2.5" and 4" barrels. Blue or nickel, adjustable sights and plastic grips.

John

 

[JohnBT]

From an employee's post on the Numrich forum:

"...really just a 50 series double action revolver with adjustable sights and chambered for .22 rf & mag.,.32 s&w long and .38 special. it was offered in one frame size only.
b.goforth"

 

[Old Fuff]

I'm still researching, and Christmas Day isn't the best time too do it...

Anyway, at the time 1950's-60's they made a number of different "pull-pin" configurations based on a basic platform which was most generally used to make 8-shot/.22 Rim Fire revolvers The basic frame was available in both fixed sight and adjstable sight versions. They then used both frame versions to make 6-shot/.32 S&W Long and 5-shot/.38 S&W revolvers with various barrel lengths, the shortest being 2 1/2 inches (front face of cylinder to muzzle).

In some references I have come across say ".38 Special, short, long and long rifle," which I think is an error, and should be; "22 short, long and long rifle."

With the exception of full-wadcutter/mid-range loads, .38 Special cartridges are too long to fit in the cylinder of these IJ revolvers.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well now I have discovered that the 1977 edition of the Stoeger Shooter's Bible lists the Iver Johnson Cadet in the following calibers.

6-shot, .22 Long Rifle
6-shot, .22 Magnum
5-shot, .32 .38 S&W

$52.00

5-shot, .38 Special

$59.75

So apparently they did make a .38 Special, but no mention of adjustable sights, or a ribbed barrel.

This time period of Iver Johnson history has not been actively researched, and so far as I know the conpany records are no longer available. Therefore I must speculate.

It would seem that they might have had a surplus of frames, which had an adjustable rear sights. At the same time there was a demand for .38 Special snubbies. So they made some .38 Special/adjustable sighted snubbies, using parts already in inventory - or mostly so.

Numrich Gunparts Corp, that bought out Iver Johnson's remaining parts when that company were out of business, does not list any .38 Special cylinders - so far as I can find.

It is probably a rare breed, but only of interest to a limited number of Iver Johnson collectors - but they might be very interested.

 

[RSVP2RIP]

I seems that the loading gate is kinda silly if you have to pull the cylinder out to eject the empties. I do suppose you could carry around a stick to poke them out with the cylinder still in the gun.

 

[Old Fuff]

This was a relatively inexpensive revolver that was usually bought by someone that thought they needed "something" for home or personal protection, but didn't want to spend anymore money then absolutely necessary. Most didn't give a second thought about loading or unloading. For that matter, most didn't fire a single shot during their lifetime if they lived in an urban areaa.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I seems that the loading gate is kinda silly if you have to pull the cylinder out to eject the empties. I do suppose you could carry around a stick to poke them out with the cylinder still in the gun.

They had a little "L" shaped rod that came with them called a "Johnson's -Jector" IIRC. Imagine an allen wrench without the wrenching aspect.
And.. Found one...

 

[Coyote3855]

Old Fuff, Thank you, once again, for your knowledge and research abilities.

 

[ercnjasmine]

thanks all for the help

 

[Old Fuff]

As I noted in another thread, the serial number, J10232 should be a small frame, top-break, 5-shot revolver, chambered in .32 S&W, made in 1930.

I think thay stamped whatever number was handy on this revolver. I expect any serious Iver Johnson collector would go nuts... :banghead:

The only way we are going to know much more is if someone comes up with a similar gun that's still in the box, so that we can see what's written on the end label. Clearly they were using up whatever available parts they had to make whatever the market wanted and would buy. This is not uncommon when a company is in financial trouble.

And by the early-middle 1970's they were.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

More confusion from IJ...

 

[JohnBT]

www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=53258

b.goforth refers to it as the New American Bulldog. '73 to '78.

He wrote the book on them "Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993"

 

[Hondo 60]

A friend asked me to sell her Iver Johnson 22 magnum.
It looked almost identical, except her's was a 4"
Same finish & same weird loading gate thing.

 

[ercnjasmine]

thanks again everyone. based on the pictures that ApacheCoTodd put up, I'd say it's probably a Cadet. But based on the description that was in the link JohnBT put up, I'd say it was the New American Bulldog. The thing that I'm unsure about from the link is that it says it "does not hammer the hammer action". I don't know what that mean

 

[JohnBT]

Iver Johnson called their safety feature the 'hammer the hammer' action - you could hit the hammer with a claw hammer and the gun wouldn't fire. We call it a transfer bar safety.