What prompted the current open carry fad?

[JesseL]

I understand it's legal but so is CCW in 40 states and not all cops are aware of it. You can *expect* to get hassled on occasion by law enforcement.

That's true in some places.

Conversely, in many places it would be grossly out of the ordinary for anybody to be hassled solely for open carry. I happen to consider that a good thing and a worthy goal for pro-RKBA folks in all jurisdictions.

I plan to make a family road trip including Idaho in the next few years, and if I come through your area I will gladly be your guinea pig. I'm betting that despite your concerns and what the local police say, it will be quite uneventful.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

I won't tolerate police infringements of rights. Title 42 USC section 1983 is your friend in the event of illegal searches, seizures, arrests, or now with the Heller case, infringement of your second amendment rights. In Idaho it might not even need to go to a federal lawsuit like that, rogue police would probably be put in their place by the state courts. Sounds to me like if what CSG is saying is true it was more like just some cop who doesn't like people carrying (or open carrying) trying to frighten people out of it.

 

[CSG]

Just for giggles, I called Boise PD and spoke to their CCW person. They are completely aware that it's legal to open carry but as she said, "Expect to answer questions every few blocks."

I completely understand the desire or need to exercise our firearms rights but I am giving you my and two Idaho law enforcement agency's POV on the issue. I have no interest in OC unless I'm out in the country. I *prefer* to carry my firearm concealed.

I'm not here to stir up trouble or cause any hard feelings so I'll check out of this thread.

 

[Cosmoline]

Click the "show all" button. We're totally surrounded! LOL

http://www.adn.com/photos/wildlife/bears/story/454024.html

 

[waterhouse]

I understand it's legal but so is CCW in 40 states and not all cops are aware of it. You can *expect* to get hassled on occasion by law enforcement.

Are there any other law abiding activities that police in your area hassle people for?

They are completely aware that it's legal to open carry but as she said, "Expect to answer questions every few blocks."

Asking questions is one thing. They are free to ask, and I am free to answer or not as I choose. I am free to walk away. Ordering a person to get down on the ground spread-eagle implies that they are not free to go, and cops can't detain people without some sort of reasonable suspicion that a law is being broken (or has been broken).

I should say that cops can't legally detain someone without reasonable suspicion. They are quite capable of doing it without RS, but more and more this is leading to lawsuits against the cities that the cops work for.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

Just for giggles, I called Boise PD and spoke to their CCW person. They are completely aware that it's legal to open carry but as she said, "Expect to answer questions every few blocks."

I completely understand the desire or need to exercise our firearms rights but I am giving you my and two Idaho law enforcement agency's POV on the issue. I have no interest in OC unless I'm out in the country. I *prefer* to carry my firearm concealed.

I'm not here to stir up trouble or cause any hard feelings so I'll check out of this thread.

You're missing the point. It's simply unacceptable for them to do so regardless of their opinions on OC or whether or not it's commonly done. Their job is to simply enforce and follow the laws, not to hassle people who are doing nothing illegal. I sometimes CC and sometimes OC, and in neither case do I have any tolerance for police harassment.

 

[torpid]

...I don't know you and would wonder why you would carry an exposed weapon rather than concealed. Just the way I feel about it.

It's an interesting change in perception from earlier times in history where a weapon hidden away (instead of being worn openly like an "honest man") was cause for suspicion that one was up to no good.

 

[Fast_Ed]

I live in Wisconsin. Open carry is our only option to bear arms. We do not have CCW here. Everyone is afraid to open carry because of the disorderly conduct threat, and there is currently a man fighting confiscation of his firearm because the local DA has not charged him with DC for open carry, but won't give his gun back. The next couple of months may be important here. In the meantime, we don't have much choice. If we want to carry, it has to be open.

Fast Ed

 

[Picard]

I wish I could open carry. I would actually prefer it to concealed carry. I shouldn't have to be embarrassed of my rights. The more people open carry, the more police officers and the public get used to it and learn that it's ok. It's more than a fad, it's a trend in exercising our freedoms. I'm really glad that more and more people are picking it up.

I hope Wisconsin clearly allows open carry in the near future. When I go up there for vacations, I'll be sure to do so once it's clear that I can.

 

[FCFC]

I don't really see much difference between legal OC and legal CCW. The actual acts are almost identical: a citizen or resident carrying a handgun in public for his own reasons. Sure, there are some secondary aspects that are different but the impact of those secondary aspects are very small in comparison to the the main behavior.

There seems to be a lot of emotion involved in the subject. F'rinstance, I see the CCWers versus OCers track of (heated) discussion. Wholely unnecessary, in my view. It's not a choice of either/or. CCW and OC can co-exist.

Although both are basically forms of carrying a deadly weapon, and are subject to reasonable regulation, there are some obvious anomalies. In some states, for example, CCW is OK beginning at 21 years of age but OC is available at 18. That doesn't make sense. Look for legislation to make such situations consistent. Of course, there are two ways to resolve such an inconsistency--lower the age for CCW to 18 or raise the age for OC to 21. It's possible that a different age could be chosen for both but that doesn't seem too likely.

If OC is legal in a state then people should do it. If OC is not legal in a state, then people should advocate for it if they want it. That's what happened with CCW. It's a normal process of spreading an idea.

As to whether OC is a fad, if it lasts a long time then it cannot be a fad.

Someone mentioned the Heller decision as somehow affecting OC. I don't see the connection of Heller to OC. At least, I don't see Heller being favorable or unfavorable to OC. Or to CCW, for that matter.

 

[Mainsail]

Just for giggles, I called Boise PD and spoke to their CCW person. They are completely aware that it's legal to open carry but as she said, "Expect to answer questions every few blocks."

Ask them to put that statement in writing.

Do you not see the contradiction? It is illegal for the police to seize a person for lawful behavior. Not improper or inappropriate; illegal. The simple and easy way to deal with this is to have your attorney send them a letter to let them know that the rules of Terry apply, and that you will not tolerate “answering questions every few blocks".

I think what they’re doing is trying to frighten you in an attempt to keep you from exercising your rights. What is the proper action in such a situation, run and hide or stand up?

 

[outofbattery]

Most of my relatives live in VA and I honestly have never seen one person OCing,not even a single person who had to expose a CC piece in a restaurant that served alcohol.

I don't really believe it's much of a fad or trend,just that THR concentrates people who practice it or who would take notice.

IRT how people might react,I had a woman standing in line behind me comment to me "what are we coming to,people have to bring guns everywhere with them",and I was thinking my P239 was printing until I realized she was talking about the off duty cop in tshirt and shorts ahead of us.Judging by the lack of any other remarks or drama,I doubt too many people would take enough notice to care,even here in MA.

 

[CSG]

Like I said, I'm out of this thread. Lots of large talk on an anonymous internet forum. All the bravado is meaningless and typical of gun forums. I'll stick to the tech talk and let you internet warriors fight the good fight for OC.

 

[chubbmann]

You're wrong, this fad of open carry rights as been around longer than we've been a state...

Our rights on display...

 

[hamourkiller]

Same thing that drove Rosa Parks not to sit at the back of that damn bus!

 

[JesseL]

IRT how people might react,I had a woman standing in line behind me comment to me "what are we coming to,people have to bring guns everywhere with them",and I was thinking my P239 was printing until I realized she was talking about the off duty cop in tshirt and shorts ahead of us.Judging by the lack of any other remarks or drama,I doubt too many people would take enough notice to care,even here in MA.

From Methuselah's Children by Robert Heinlein:

WHEN LAZARUS went to bed he stepped out of his kilt and chucked it toward a wardrobe which snagged it, shook it out, and hung it up neatly. "Nice catch," he commented, then glanced down at his hairy thighs and smiled wryly; the kilt had concealed a blaster strapped to one thigh, a knife to the other. He was aware of the present gentle custom against personal weapons, but he felt naked without them. Such customs were nonsense anyhow, foolishment from old women-there was no such thing as a "dangerous weapon," there were only dangerous men.

How long a period in history was it that it was so unusual for free people to be armed?

It seems to me like it was a brief period between The Great Depression (and the ensuing rise of American socialism) and the rise of shall-issue concealed carry laws.

 

[JesseL]

Like I said, I'm out of this thread. Lots of large talk on an anonymous internet forum. All the bravado is meaningless and typical of gun forums. I'll stick to the tech talk and let you internet warriors fight the good fight for OC.

Did you see the pic I linked earlier? That's me (with my son) open carrying at a local street fair/car show a few months back. I for one practice what I preach, and I trust that many others here do too.

BTW, I just emailed my police chief asking his opinion on open carry. I won't be surprised to hear a response much like the one you got, despite the fact that 9 years of OC has netted me zero police interaction.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Ill just say that i grew up in an OC state and still reside there . I choose not to OC in public . As a side note i dont inflict such behaviors on others in public such as blowing smoke , spitting my tobacco juice, or urinating on others pants and telling them its warm rain . Carry how you will , and if i see you out on my ranch or areas where i work i will only ask to shoot a gun i never seen ( if you can carry one lol ) . Do it in town and my gut opinion says you despreatly need drama in your life . Sorry folks to me its a non issue . Carry when and how you will , but if you do it in an urban area and get unwanted attention then deal with it . As a side note they wont let me ride my green broke colt in downtown denver either , there is no specific ordnance against it that i have found but trust me , about the time i walk him between the deviders for the 16th st mall i start getting offical attention .

 

[torpid]

I choose not to OC in public . As a side note i dont inflict such behaviors on others in public such as blowing smoke , spitting my tobacco juice, or urinating on others pants and telling them its warm rain .

Now, those aren't quite the same things now, are they?

 

[FieroCDSP]

I think a lot of it revolves around the up-swing in the gun culture, at least here in Ohio. OC has been a little-known thing in most areas, despite the fact that Ohio's constitution backs RKBA, and until the CCW laws went through, OC was the only way you could.

Now, it's a bit of an interesting thing here. CCW is widely permitted in businesses, as most of them realize it's a bad move to advertise that your customers are disarmed. If you OC into those same businesses, you might be asked to cover up or leave. The more knowledgable will just nod and maybe chat you up. The lesser so will worry what your non-gunny patrons will think.

Fact is, the more people that do it, the more accepted it will become. With the cops getting their ducks in line in regards to the law, OC is likely to continue to grow in popularity.

I havent really actively OC'd since I got my conceal permit. I'll put on my IWB before I leave for work and not worry about a cover garment, thus technicaly be OC when I stop for gas, but if anyone has even noticed, they haven't said a word or called the cops. Then again, it's not like I live in Cleveland. I can drive less than five minutes and see cows.

 

[torpid]

In the well-worn OC vs. CCW debates it's odd to me that OC folks don't generally have a problem with people who choose to CCW, but a certain mindset of pro-CCW folks seem to have huge issues with folks choosing to legally OC.

IMO it comes off more like an emotional dislike than a logical one, akin to someone having huge annoyance that another person would choose to eat/not eat meat in their presence. They don't like it, and they especially dislike it that others are free to do it anyway.

 

[CSG]

OK, one more post and *then* I'm out.

BTW, torpid, your comment: "IMO it comes off more like an emotional dislike than a logical one..." fits me. I understand the desire, effort, etc. to OC.

The reason for this post is that I just got off the phone with our local Costco manager seeing as though I referred to Costco in an earlier post and asked her the policy for their store. She revealed she was a CCW holder, pro gun and they had no problem with open or concealed carry in their store. She said they were only a couple of times a few years ago where they had someone enter wearing an exposed firearm and while it alarmed a couple people on staff she explained it was perfectly legal and they follow state law.

However, what was crazy is she told me that Costco employees are NOT allowed to carry concealed on the premises or even have a firearm in their vehicle in the parking lot!! That's corporate.

 

[ilbob]

Same thing that drove Rosa Parks not to sit at the back of that damn bus!

An interesting example of finding the right person for the right case. Something like Heller.

Seems like there were all kinds of similar cases across the south. Many were even more offensive than hers, but her case was chosen because she was the defendant they wanted. A number of clients were supposedly dropped from consideration because they were unwed mothers.

 

[torpid]

The reason for this post is that I just got off the phone with our local Costco manager seeing as though I referred to Costco in an earlier post and asked her the policy for their store. She revealed she was a CCW holder, pro gun and they had no problem with open or concealed carry in their store. She said they were only a couple of times a few years ago where they had someone enter wearing an exposed firearm and while it alarmed a couple people on staff she explained it was perfectly legal and they follow state law.

Thanks for posting what you found out from the call here.
Maybe her bosses should hear that she politely and cheerfully answered your inquiries satisfactorily-she sounds like she's got a good head on her shoulders.

 

[tpaw]

it's the bad guys that are usually seen digging guns out of their pants. The folks OC'ing aren't the ones too watch out for!

Don't kid yourself, bad guys will open carry as well. How would anyone tell the difference between the good or bad guy? They'll blend right in with the rest of the crowd.