What revolvers have transfer bars?

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Twiki357

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I’m just curious of what manufactures use transfer bars in their revolvers. I know that Beretta has them on the Stampede single actions and that Ruger and Taurus have them on theirs. I found a real nice Dan Wesson 357 in a pawn shop a couple of days ago and was surprised to find one in it.

So what other manufactures have a transfer bar on their revolvers, or are there any semi-autos with them?
 
I think most manufactuers and models have them now. You probably have a shorter list of those that don't have them on a revolver.

I believe in CA it is required to have them to be on the approved list.
 
I’m just curious of what manufactures use transfer bars in their revolvers. I know that Beretta has them on the Stampede single actions and that Ruger and Taurus have them on theirs. I found a real nice Dan Wesson 357 in a pawn shop a couple of days ago and was surprised to find one in it.

So what other manufactures have a transfer bar on their revolvers, or are there any semi-autos with them?
The majority of modern revolvers use transfer bar type safeties. Most modern autos either have an internal safety that pushes a block out of the way when the trigger is pulled all the way back, have a grip safety, or have a "safe action" trigger that prevents it from firing when dropped.
 
Forgot to address the semi auto. The internal safeties for them can be vary greatly depending on the action that is used. Some block the Sear or Hammer depending on if you have a bever tail safety, trigger safety (I.e. Glock), slide saftey, Lawyer Lock, etc...
It depends on the make and model and if it's a Hammer or Striker Fired.
 
Modern semi autos generally have what's called a firing pin block. The firing pin held in place unless the trigger is pulled to the rear. If the hammer were to inadvertently fall without the trigger being depressed, it wouldn't be able to move the firing pin.
 
Howdy

Smith and Wessons have a hammer block inside. A hammer block works the opposite of a transfer bar, it slides out of the way when the trigger is pulled allowing the hammer to fall all the way.

In this photo, the slanted piece is the hammer block. This is actually a redundant safety device, S&W also incorporates a rebounding hammer. You can see the hammer is retracted slightly because the bump on the top of the rebound slide is wedging the hammer back.

44handejector4thmodelhammerblock.jpg



The arrow in this photo points to the transfer bar in a Ruger Vaquero. When the hammer is cocked, the motion of the trigger causes the transfer bar to rise. When the hammer falls, it strikes the transfer bar, transferring the blow to the firing pin. When the trigger is released, it pulls the transfer bar down out of engagement. The hammer is designed so that it rests on the frame and cannot contact the firing pin.

transferbarwitharrow_zpsfb95a56c.jpg



The Colt Single Acton Army has no transfer bar or hammer block. Never did, still does not. In this view you can see the hammer is fully cocked and the firing pin is ready to jump through the hole in the frame to strike the primer of a cartridge.

rearsight02_zpsce95d963.jpg


The old Ruger Three Screw single action revolvers had no transfer bar or hammer block.

Import regulations require all Single Action revolvers from Uberti and Pietta and any other country to have some sort of safety device inside. These revolvers have the same style lockwork as the Colt SAA, but hammer blocks and/or a double notched cylinder pin have been incorporated into the design.
 
As a matter of interest, nearly any Colt-style Single Action can have a hammer block safety installed by simply swapping out the hammer for one that has the safety block installed. (This excludes three-screw Rugers)

I believe this type of safety is every bit as good as the transfer bar (in a Single Action).

Bob Wright
 
The Colt single action "Cowboy" also used a transfer bar, as do their later small frame revolvers.
I believe Ruger DA revolvers have always used it.
As best I remember Charter was one of the earliest gun manufacturers to use it way back in the sixties.
 
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cuz LAWYERS.

Howdy

It is easy to blame our problems today on lawyers, but it is actually not that simple. Believe it or not, many of these types of devices originated with firearms designers, not lawyers, long before our present litigious society existed that blames restaurants for hot coffee, because it was recognized by the manufacturers that safety hazards existed in their products.

A good example is the lever trigger safety interlock on the Winchester Model 1873, that goes all the way back to 1874 or so. Winchester realized that the new rifle, with its more powerful 44-40 cartridge, would be safer if an interlock was included in the design, that would prevent accidental discharge if the lever was not completely closed and the rifle was not in battery.

Firearms designers had long been aware of the danger of the old Colt lockwork when a round was present under the hammer. When The S&W New Model #3 was released in 1878 one of the new features was a rebounding hammer that automatically wedged the hammer back about 1/8", pulling the firing pin away from a primer every time the gun fired. Unfortunately the parts were rather thin in cross section and I would not trust it if the gun were dropped on the hammer.

In this photo I am forcing the hammer forward to simulate the position of the lockwork at the instant a cartridge fires.

hammerdown.jpg

Once I let go of the hammer, the trigger spring wedges the hammer back slightly and the sear pops into a recess in the hammer that prevents the hammer from moving forward. You can see how thin the parts are and why I do not trust the rebounding hammer if the gun was dropped, I only load five in any old revolver.

hammeratrest.jpg


Iver Johnson patented a transfer bar type of device in 1896, leading to their famous Hammer the Hammer advertising campaign.

iverjohnsontransferbarpatent_zpsc295985f.jpg

iverjohnsonadvertisement_zps726be5f1.jpg



When Smith and Wesson developed the modern rebound slide for the M&P Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, it incorporated the bump on the top of the slide that wedged the hammer back just as in the photo of the newer revolver I posted earlier.

38MampPmechanism_zps8ed50eb2.jpg



Later, S&W included a 2nd, redundant hammer block in the design, during the 1920s or 1930s.

triggerandsideplate02.jpg


When a sailor was killed by a Victory Model striking the deck of a battleship during WWII the Government threatened to cancel further orders. S&W called all the engineers in and within one week had completely redesigned the hammer block to its present configuration, exactly as I posted earlier. Pretty amazing feat to redesign something like that and get it into production in one week.


All this happened long before the 'lawyers' started dictating the designs of firearms.

Of course, I find it completely understandable that Bill Ruger decided to completely redesign his single action line of revolvers back in the 1970s. He has suffered through enough lawsuits from families of shooters who did not understand how to safely operate an old fashioned single action revolver.
 
All Colt double action revolvers had a hammer block safety in them from around the time of the turn of the century. It was similar to the Iver Johnson design.

The Colt SAA was carried hammer down on an empty chamber as general practice. Load one, skip one, load four, was the old mantra. If action was imminent the empty chamber could be loaded as well.

tipoc
 
Colt introduced their "positive lock" in 1905. The patent, #793692, was taken out by George H. Tansley and first introduced in their Police Positive line of revolvers (called this after the safety device) and worked it's way across the line from there. There are models of guns shipped after this date that did not have the new design, but later incorporated it.

It first showed up in the New Service "Improved models" in 1909 about serial range 21000.

A variation of the design was maintained in Colt da revolvers up through the last of the Pythons.

It was not a transfer bar but a safety hammer block and rebounding hammer. It's discussed at some length and detail in Jerry Kuhnhausen's book "The Colt Double Action Revolver" Vol. I page 19. Mentioned in passing by Wilson "The Book of Colt Firearms" page 321 and elsewhere, and Haven and Belson "A History of the Colt Revolver".

It is not surprising that S&W did not take long to implement a similar design in their revolvers during the war. The basic concept had been available for some time.

tipoc
 
The Colt "positive" safety was a very good one, but also quite expensive, consisting of two machined parts, an extra pin in the trigger, and machine cuts in the frame. S&W's current system is considerably less expensive and equally effective.

But Colt's system was not "similar to the Iver Johnson design". The Iver Johnson had a true transfer bar, while the Colt was a hammer block.

A hammer block has an advantage over a transfer bar. A hammer block is never touched by the hammer unless something has gone very wrong already. A transfer bar is struck by the hammer every time the gun is fired and thus is more likely to break than a hammer block. In some guns, the transfer bar is smashed between the hammer and the frame every shot, creating even more stress on it.

Jim
 
A transfer bar is struck by the hammer every time the gun is fired and thus is more likely to break than a hammer block. In some guns, the transfer bar is smashed between the hammer and the frame every shot, creating even more stress on it.

+1!

There have been a lot of broken transfer bars in CAS over the years.
 
But Colt's system was not "similar to the Iver Johnson design". The Iver Johnson had a true transfer bar, while the Colt was a hammer block.

Correct. I spoke, or wrote, too soon.

tipoc
 
The Webley Mk VI locks the hammer a bit back to where the firing pin on the hammer does not protrude through the frame unless the trigger is pulled.
 
Later Colt revolvers like the original Colt Trooper (pre-Mark III Trooper), Pythons, Diamondbacks, Official Police, Police Positive, all have the hammer block safety.

BTW, excellent photos and explanations guys.
 
The Colt single action "Cowboy" also used a transfer bar, as do their later small frame revolvers.
I believe Ruger DA revolvers have always used it.
As best I remember Charter was one of the earliest gun manufacturers to use it way back in the sixties.

I have an Iver Johnson top break 5 shot revolver 38 S&W patent date 1894 with a transfer bar.

So it's not a new thing, one of their early 1900's models even had the "Glock safety" on the trigger.
 
Hi, Kaeto,

That Webley does not have either a hammer block or a transfer bar. It has a rebound lever (Webley calls it the mainspring auxiliary) to retract the firing pin. Many other revolvers have such a system; some also have transfer bars or hammer block safeties.

A hammer rebound system is primarily designed to retract the firing pin so the gun can be opened easily. It can also act as a hammer block to an extent, but most rebound systems are not strong enough to stand up to a really heavy blow on the hammer, since either the rebound device will fail or the hammer pin itself will shear.

Jim
 
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