What rifle for exploring the joys of casting boolits

[R.W.Dale]

If you were to set out to buy a new or used rifle with the express purpose of testing, evaluating and exploring a newfound casting/powdercoating hobby what would it be?

$600 budget, needs to be scoped, already have a 45/70 encore so something a little cheaper on lead.

Also have a Winchester and savage bolt 30-30 so another isn't really required.

Range would be out to but not exceeding 300m

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Go high pressure..... something like a 30-06 or a derivative of it. I'd love to do this endeavor at some point in the future. There are plenty of used and new 30-06 rifles to choose from at that price point.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Go high pressure..... something like a 30-06 or a derivative of it. I'd love to do this endeavor at some point in the future. There are plenty of used and new 30-06 rifles to choose from at that price point.

I have a concern though that 308/30-06 may end up like my ruger 77 where while it seems to want to shoot cast very well it's a little too tight and short at the neck throat to excel at it

 

[wlewisiii]

You have a .30-30? That's perfect for what you suggest. Cast stuff with a decent aerodynamic profile and you'll be fine with that Savage. You can also crank the pressures on it too.

 

[frankenstein406]

358win or 35 whelen, I think rem 760 pumps are $500ish in whelen. Or a 35 rem lever action.

 

[R.W.Dale]

You have a .30-30? That's perfect for what you suggest. Cast stuff with a decent aerodynamic profile and you'll be fine with that Savage. You can also crank the pressures on it too.

It's not all sunshine and lollipops

Don't get me wrong the rifle shoots cast great. But the goofy side scope mount, retarded barrel band bedding and incurably bad trigger all combine to limit the absolute accuracy potential at longer ranges with cast. And you for dang sure don't crank the pressures up on these split bridge single locking actions if you care at all about accuracy and brass life.

Basically I need something solid and inform to weed out as many variables as possible in testing my casting and coating craft

358win or 35 whelen, I think rem 760 pumps are $500ish in whelen. Or a 35 rem lever action.

Ya know I've had Remington pumps in 35rem and 35w I now sorely wish I had back now that I cast

 

[eldon519]

.38-55 I believe was often used as a target rifle back in the old days. If I'm not mistaken, you can also shoot .38-55 out of a .375 Winchester.

An old .30-40 Krag could be interesting too. I think the standard load was a 220RN, so they ought to have a throat that would allow you to seat bullets a ways out.

 

[Jim Watson]

For shooting at 300 meters (I didn't know you'uns in Arkansaw counted in French.) I would want a bolt action or very stout single shot. Trying to make a pump or lever action into a cast bullet testbed and target rifle would just add another layer of variables.

There will be lots of lightly used .30-06 and .308 rifles available at the end of hunting season as the Christmas bills and tax returns come due. Just clean the copper out.
A pre-bubbaed Springfield or Enfield would probably work, too.

You might get on the castboolits board to discuss neck and throat dimensions.
I bet somebody is set up to open them up if required. If it were just the neck, you could turn the case necks down a good deal.

 

[Nom de Forum]

R.W. I think you will have better luck with whatever rifle you choose if you try cast bullets rather than cast boolits. It is my understanding that cast boolits don't have as good of lube grooves as cast bullets.

 

[rule303]

Your 45-70 Encore is a perfect candidate for cast bullets. On a budget, maybe a H&R Handi-rifle with 45-70, 30-30, and 35 Rem or Whelen barrels? Any of those calibers will be able to shoot cast bullets to their full potential. When you start getting much faster than 30-30 velocities, cast bullets just aren't a viable choice IMO except for reduced loads.

 

[dprice3844444]

get an inexpensive handyrifle as posted above and you can set it up w/different barrels to play with.

 

[Float Pilot]

Go old school.....
.577 calibre Parker Hale Enfield artillery carbine...

 

[MistWolf]

Powder coating and bullet casting? Are you going to be powder coating bullets with something?

Generally, "high pressure" and "cast bullets" don't go together because of problems with leading. Are you going to be applying some sort of powder coating to reduce or eliminate leading?

My first reaction to your post was to suggest something like a Sharps replica. It would be more than your budget, but a worthy rifle to experiment with cast bullets. But if your working on something clever involving powder coating...

 

[R.W.Dale]

Yes you cast and then powdercoat the bullets. If properly done it ELIMINATES all potential leading issues associated with cast.

It's a new technique and the limits are still being explored but basically it allows you to drive softer bullets faster with no concern of leading. The only variable left to sort out is accuracy. Hence a the need for a good variable free testbed.

 

[Schwing]

Your 45-70 Encore is a perfect candidate for cast bullets.

^^^^^+1 to this. 45-70s are a great bullet for casting for several reasons. First, it is a lower pressure round (most loads less than 30k psi). Lead has elasticity limits and attaining accuracy in higher pressure rounds can be a bit of a challenge. Even higher pressure handgun calibers such as 9mm and .40 can be problematic. It can be done, to be sure, but if you have never cast your own before I would recommend working up to the higher pressure rounds.

You mentioned powder coating which I have done extensively. It certainly removes 100% of the leading issues in my experience but it does little to nothing to improve accuracy.

The second reason I like 45-70s is that I don't shoot very many of them so I don't feel like I need to have marathon casting sessions to cast thousands of them like I do in other calibers. Last time I did them I cast about 100.

One kind of ridiculous reason I like them is because I do powder coat my bullets. The irony with 45-70s is that you don't really have to powder coat them to prevent leading... I just think that a 500 grain race-car red bullet looks awesome!


Another consideration would be to just get a handgun caliber carbine like a .45. Even having gone on above about the problems with higher pressure rounds, something like a .357 or .44 carbine would not be a bad option either. Even though they are higher pressure, most caster have great luck working up accurate loads for them and, if you are going to powder coat, the leading won't ever be an issue.

 

[R.W.Dale]

At 6 lbs with a m4 buttstock and a pencil thin bbl assure you my encore is the last gun that's well suited to precise accuracy evaluations off the bench at extended ranges.

Plus it has no throat and a grossly oversized bore making suitable molds few and far between

 

[GooseGestapo]

The bolt action savage is as good as it gets with cast bullets.

For a NEW rifle, try a .22Hornet. I use the Lyman 225415 (mine is so old, it's just 22541) It casts to 49.5gr and I size to .225".
From my Ruger 77MkII 77/22Hornet (KBZ has laminated stock bull bbl and stainless); I get 1/2" 50yd groups over 6.2gr of #2400 for 2,200fps.
Use 2.0gr of Bullseye for ~1,200fps w/o gas check for shooting squirrels in the front yard. (slighty better ballistics than .22lr) Much cheaper than current .22lr when it can be found.... I use the bottom taper on the cross hairs when sighted in for j-bullets or above mentioned load of #2400.

 

[d2wing]

This would be the time to consider a pistol caliber like a 44 mag or .357. I used to cast .357 with .35 Rem gas checks but that is years ago.

 

[Schwing]

At 6 lbs with a m4 buttstock and a pencil thin bbl assure you my encore is the last gun that's well suited to precise accuracy evaluations off the bench at extended ranges.

Plus it has no throat and a grossly oversized bore making suitable molds few and far between

Keep in mind that powder coating adds a few thousandths. I can imagine that not being a real comfortable shooter.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Keep in mind that powder coating adds a few thousandths. I can imagine that not being a real comfortable shooter.

Powder coating is the only way I've been able to shoot the thing. I'm adding .003" worth of coating to a bullet that drops .457" and even then I'm only just at the bore diameter of .460"

 

[Elkins45]

35 Whelen or 358 Winchester are ideal calibers. 35 cal is just about the right balance between small and large bore.

If you can't find a gun Buds has some smoking deals on Handi-Rifles. You can get a 35 Whelen for around $230, or there's a combo with 35 Remington and 444 Marlin barrels under $300. I have been seriously eyeing that two barrel combo myself with the intent of having the 35 Rem barrel rechambered to 358 Win.

Being able to make 358 cases from surplus 308 brass appeals to the cheapskate in me.

 

[MCMXI]

How about a bolt action rifle chambered for 300 AAC Blackout? You could test subsonic and supersonic loads with bullet weights ranging from 125gr up to 240gr or thereabouts. You wouldn't need much powder either. Once you find a good bullet, you could use it in a bunch of other .30 cal cartridges.

 

[Schwing]

Powder coating is the only way I've been able to shoot the thing. I'm adding .003" worth of coating to a bullet that drops .457" and even then I'm only just at the bore diameter of .460"

That is frustrating. I have had 9mm and .357 molds that drop on the small side too. You might consider lapping the molds or even just ordering a custom sized mold that is more in line with your bore diameter.

Whatever you go with. Powder coating adds a whole new dimension to the hobby. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

 

[R.W.Dale]

How about a bolt action rifle chambered for 300 AAC Blackout? You could test subsonic and supersonic loads with bullet weights ranging from 125gr up to 240gr or thereabouts. You wouldn't need much powder either. Once you find a good bullet, you could use it in a bunch of other .30 cal cartridges.

I am monitoring the availability if the new ruger American in 300bo very closely.

I like the cartridge but I just traded my AR so chambered off because I'm fundamentally just not a brass chaser.

I am || close to just putting in an order and waiting for supply to catch up

 

[rbernie]

I'm waiting for decent stocks to be available for the American. Other than that - I'm right there with ya.