What should I do in a school shooting?

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First off you say you are in a school building attached to a church. Be aware that until the looney who killed the Amish girls, there had never been a student shooting at a parochial school.

Second, you have three options, respond, retreat, hide,


Respond If you are in a place where a tackle can be made, one students response has galvanized resistance in several instances. Several Columbine students have reported that had they known, they would have tackled the kids when they started as they had the chance. once the halls empty, getting a running start and knocking them down is unlikely. Fight back, get in a position that if he comes in your door, you are going to take him out, get a fire extinguisher, pointer, yardstick, flag pole, anything that you can use to beat the snot out of him.

retreat, think about this, getting OUT. In my state all classrooms have to have two doors. for fire reasons, or window, throw a chair out the window, clean the frame with a sweeping motion and GET OUT> bust another door down and GET OUT, IF not RUN FOR IT< a running target is hard to hit, take off and RUN> distance is your friend.


HIDE, closets, cabinets, under desks, in the ceiling, anything you can do to make your self and others less visible.

Cell phone, power it up, call 911, call your mom and dad, tell them too.

Weapon. you may not be able to carry a gun, but mace is often tolerated, My daughter carries pepper spray, she has been told to run if she can but pepper spray the hall behind her to create a barrier. Carry a spare pair of socks in your back pack, keep your extra lock in the sock.

You can do a lot of things, refusing to be a victim is the first.
 
well. my shool had a policy of everyone hide in a corner with the door unlocked. i how ever had my own policy of smash and window and run across the field and zig zag for cover. cause chances are if there is some one shooting up the place, they probibly have crap aim.

ya idealisticly id like to save the day. beat the guy with a chair, or stab him with a pair of scisors. but unless he was already in the room im in. id probibly rather try to get the room i was in and maybe who ever else in adjacent rooms out as i can
 
Hehehehe....having fun with someone elsewhere in an "Off Topic" discussion:

Him: Anyone else think it's a HORRIBLE idea to try and have kids fight back?

Me: Assuming that at this point the gunman has dealt with ALL outside security measures...does anyone have a BETTER idea?

Him: Anything's better than having a bunch of 12 year olds who are already physically and mentally unstable by nature gang up on him...

Me: So...by "anything" you mean "stand there and let him shoot all of them???"

This goes along well with my "pending robbery-execution in pharmacy" topic. When you're starting down a gunbarrel and you're a dead man walking ANYway - what have you got to LOSE by fighting back?
 
Option A is run like hell, and that is preferable. Option B is defend yourself, but only if your own life or someone elses is on the line. If you are in a corner, fight, if you see the guy about to shoot someone in a corner and you can take the guy out from behind, you might want to do it. In my school we have Lockdowns, and today I got yelled at for explaining to the teacher and other students how little sense this makes and how if a gunman was in the school, this brilliant trickery the faculty thought up is not going to help us, rather it has only succeeded in herding us up into easily defeatable unarmed groups. What really got the teacher upset was when I provided him with an option if they tried to break into the classroom but thats for another discussion.
 
I work as a campus police officer at a small college. There are at least two officers (certified police officers, I mean) on duty per shift. No dorms. No one on campus after 11pm, in fact (students or faculty).
 
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We have a responsiblity not to discuss certain things in an open forum.
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Why is it that we should not discuss things that are bound to help folks out of a bad situation? You seem to worry that some bad guy will take advice found here and use it to his advantage, yet all the while that such advise is not made avaialble to those who could use it to save their own lives and the lives of others, then more people will die at the hands of bad guys. It is apparent, to me at least, you are merely worried about looking bad or being sued. I wonder what you will think when someone who uses your suit sues you, or makes you look bad, because he or she is injured in one of these school shooting and you denied them the ability to gain information from others on this site about how to protect themselves.

Sure they ccan go elsewhere, but they are here already. It is a pity, but it seems that the mindset here is to protect from liability rather than to help protect good decent folks from lunatics. It does not seem as if a high road is being taken in that regard, though I am quite open to rebuttle discussion that may yet have me see it your way.
 
Glenn,
THR is an open forum. Anyone can surf in here and read any thread without even going to the trouble of registering. Because of that, there are certain things that are better not discussed in this open forum. There is nothing top secret about the current doctrine for an active shooter response. However if someone was inclined to copycat a school shooting, I don't want them to get their intel here. Let them dig a little deeper for it.

No one on staff and I'm sure most members do not want the authorites to find a thread from THR in the cache of the next school shooter's computer. I certainly don't want anyone who might contemplate shooting up either of the schools that are in my jurisdiction knowing too much about how we plan to deal with it. Would you approve of your local PD publishing thier active shooter response plan for each school in it's jurisdiction in a supplement to the Sunday paper. It's more then an attempt to avoid civil liability, it's the right thing to do.

Jeff
 
My misunderstand, I was thinking more outside the box on the topic of school shootings. I was not talking about a PD's plan for a live shooter, I was talking about the schools plan or the hostages plan for a live shooter. This is what needs to be taught and taught fast to prevent more shootings.

Someone here said, in essence, if you were stuck in a school and there was a shooter, and you had no weapons you would have to hide under a desk. Someone else suggested jumping out a window. Someone else said they realized their responsibility to follow the commands of the teacher. These are all the things being done today that help wind up getting more and more people killed.

While there are times to listen to teacher, when teacher says: "Everyone remain calm, everyone obey the nice man with the gun, everyone do what he says when he says it" you are in trouble.

While you maybe able to jump out of a window, remember that one of the largest fire departments in the country teaches its firemen not to jump from above floor 3. Besides that you may have better options than jumping even if on the 1st floor. But this one is better than just listening to teacher.

As far as hiding under the desk goes because you have no weapons, I think that comes from someone with extremely limited practical experience in any sort of physical confrontation. It is sometimes okay advice, but can often be advice to get you killed. People who freeze, or take flight, or who comply with a bad guy, are at the mercy of the bad guy. The ones who take flgiht at least have a chance. Those who freeze or comply, yeah they have a chance too, but basically they have surrenderd and are truly at the mercy of a potential killer. I think it better to have a plan to fight. In all instances I think the shools should have a plan to fight, and parents should teach their children to fight if it comes to the point where it is either that or imminent death.

I was thining along those lines in suggesting it should be discussed herein. It is an education that could prove invaluable to save lives, and giving specific plans on how to do it here is not giving the bad guy an advantage if only because you cannot be that specific to train everyoine for each and every situation they will encounter. Trainging is done along tjose lines to make the trained person not respond by rote when an event occurs, but to be able to pull something out of a large bag of tricks that he has been taught to address the current situation as the person sees fit. You assess, you act, and often in the action you adapt your technique to fit the current situation.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
You always hear people saying "he just snapped" or "nobody saw it coming". That's BULL! There are always signs and I don't care if it's your best friend, if you suspect someone is planning something bad then for God's sake PLEASE TELL SOMEBODY! (parents, school admin, teachers, a cop, SOMEBODY).
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+1. This kind of prevention can not be over-emphasized. Our local Sheriff
Dept was able to prevent a school shooting by >1 assailants because
someone turned them in on their plans and the stockpile they had already
made. It was fairly easy to make the stolen firearms charge stick in court....

For things "less" than that, ie, the angry kid making threats, many of our
schools now have a 0 tolerance policy in place. Parents and police are called
and the kid gets a professional assessment by a third party.
 
I think the best advice is to be aware. You know who you go to school with, and if you feel a threat is coming from them go to the administration, police, guidence counsler.

As far as threats from outside the school, school districts are working on those problems. Controling who uses which doors, early warning to students and teachers, etc.

In a school setting i would, ahead of time, know my surroundings, if you are on a second story of a school do you have emergency ladders in each room? If not go to the school board meeting and raise a stink. You are a member of the community and have a right to voice concerns.

Also in an inservice we had we were told to think outside of the box.
If stuck in room, do you have a soap dispenser, then put soap in front of the door to make the attacker slip, are there other cleaning products that you can use to blind them. broom handle, metal ruler, table leg are all good last resort items. fire extinguisher is a good smoke screen to cover an escape.

but remember you will have at least 20 kids in a classroom. while some are preparing the room others can be preparing the escape, calling 911, and helping any injured students. If you cant get out of the room, write what info you know on paper and tape it to the window to give the first responders much needed info.
Just dont loose your head and become the sheep.
its the motto many of us follow. Be Prepared.
At least in your head.
Forgeblast.
 
If there is a school shooting, do not pick up a gun. You will be killed, the cops will think that you are one of the shooters and wouldn't have a problem putting a bullet in you, it's not their fault, it's yours for the thinking that way.

Ideally get as far as you can from campus. Your life counts, not your classmates or teachers. Hiding in a classroom isn't a bad idea, make sure to do it in behind something thick enough to stop a bullet though. Just wait, and wait, and wait.

Most importantly, throw your hands up (so cops dont think you have a gun), and get the hell of campus. A total school lockdown isn't always the best idea, considering the walls of some classrooms are extremely thin and easy to pierce with a bullet.
 
I certainly don't want anyone who might contemplate shooting up either of the schools that are in my jurisdiction knowing too much about how we plan to deal with it. Would you approve of your local PD publishing thier active shooter response plan for each school in it's jurisdiction in a supplement to the Sunday paper.
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For what it’s worth, one of the hard lessons I’ve learned in the computer industry is that security through obscurity, isn’t.
 
Talk to your teachers see what they plan to do, I know that one of my teachers has given this sort of situation a lot of thought and has made many contingency plans for what to do if something happens.
 
One thing to consider. School shooters are looking for targets of opportunity. They know they don't have a lot of time before the cops show up and are going to hit the targets that are easiest to get to. If you are in a classroom and all you know is someone is shooting somewhere don't leave the room as you may run right into him. Kill the lights and pile as much stuff in front of the door as possible. Get in a position with the least visibility or line of site from the door. Most likely the shooter will not take the time needed to get through a closed door with stuff holding it shut. Stay away from it cause he might put rounds through it if he thinks it's just kids holding it closed. If the classroom has an overhead or slide projector point it at the door so if he does manage to come through turn it on so he will be temporarily blinded until he gets out of it's beam. And can't see where anyone is. Keep heavy books in a book bag, it can club and be flung. If he enters the room ATTACK!! Fling anything you can at him to get him defensive and knock him to the ground as quickly as possible. You are fighting for your and everyone else in the room's life.

The main idea of barricading the door is to discourage him and make him move on. If he thinks the room is empty or impassable he won't want to waste the time.

He has the superior position outside the classroom as the halls are open and he has superior range with his weapon. You also likely won't know where he is. Gunshots will echo through halls and can deceive you as to their location. You can establish a superior position in the classroom as you can control the terrain. You don't stand a good chance in the halls.

Anyone see any gaping holes in this plan?
 
One thing to consider. School shooters are looking for targets of opportunity.
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That's not true. Several of the school shooters have had specific people they targeted. I don't think there have been a lot of random school shootings. The random shooting has usually happened after the people the shooter intended to get were shot.

Jeff
 
What breaks my heart is that there needs to be a conversation about this state of affairs at all. The dialogue that I would like to hear as a result of our reality is an honest conversation about what has happened to our culture that has begat this behavior and what can we do to reverse it.

I've been around long enough to have observed the why. Sadly, most would not want to talk about it, because it would not be politically correct to confront the truth.

In the meantime, sadly, we will continue to blame the objects rather than the behavior.
 
I know this thread is about a month old however I felt inclined to respond.

I recall when Columbine happened and our school had a new zero tolerance policy about any discussion about weapons with the exception of debate class. There were a few things they told us and I think some of them are very ineffective methods.

One of the methods were that they told us during a school shooting, the school went into lockdown and they would lock all the doors. The glass on the windows had that wiring so that if you punched it, the whole thing wouldn't shatter. The doors were heavy wood though I'm sure a gun would have no problem penetrating it. We were basically told to turn off the lights and run to a corner furthest from the door to make the classroom look empty. A kid asked how that could be safe because someone could just shoot right through the window and the teacher responded saying "Well that's what we were told". Not a very safe measure.

Other methods were if you were in the bathroom to throw water on the ground with soap and hide in the stalls so if the shooter came in there, they would trip and fall. Sounded somewhat effective.

We had a policy that you couldn't wear coats in school and while we didn't have clear backpacks or metal detectors, you couldn't bring your backpack to class. Trench Coats obviously were banned as well. There were several times it would be freezing in class and i'd have a coat on, the teacher would write me up and tell me to put my coat in my locker.

The problem is that every school shooting is going to be a different situation, you can't really prepare because it's likely going to happen when you least expect it if it does happen. Someones natural instinct will probably be to get out of there and not risk their life. Theres no need to try to be a hero and save the day because it's not worth risking your life for, only if you are stuck in a situation where you are literally near the killer and you cannot run that you should try to fight the shooter as others said, do what you can be it biting or throwing stuff but definitely escape if you can.

We had some kids bring guns to school before, mainly gang related, but fortunately never had a actual shooting at our school.
 
student responsibilites

What the Mod said is dead on.

Do what your adminstrators have given you as a plan. Contrary to what people think these plans are seldom made by some geeky bleeding heart liberal.

For instance, our plan (I am not PD, just school admin) dictates that students are to remain in their classrooms and teachers are to lock their doors and stay put until the all clear is given.

In our drills, a special bell goes off and stduents are immediately herded into the nearst available room. The teacher locks the door as soon as possible and WILL NOT open the door until the all clear is given or officers appear at the door.

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That said, there are three issues that need to be kept in mind.

1. once the enemy is in the room and past the door, all bets are off. As a teacher I will do what I can to protect the students (won't go into that here, but it's pretty limited). We do benefit here from having students that are quite accustomed to violence, though.

2. teachers need to be trained on how to recognize the enemy. in the first rush of students an enemy may be hard to distinguish, especially if they are students. this issue I do not know how to address and will leave to wiser heads than mine.

3. teachers need to be trained in proper door procedure. when do you open it? when do you close it? I know of both teachers that would slam their doors shut to EVERYONE at the first hint of danger, and teachers that would hold the door open for fleeing students right up to the point they get shot.

----

Anyway, the point is that as a student you pay close attention to the plan in place for your school first before deciding on your own plan.
 
At my school they have us huddle down in the corner and be quiet. But if some guy comes in with a full auto ak or somethin in my opinion we would all be dead fast as we are grouped together like a nice little target. If someone was in the room and started shooting, and if I wasnt dead I would get my belt off and beat the out of him (My belt is a motorcycle chain drive slightly modified) And if they were tryin to get in, like everyone said put stuff infront of the door. If that isnt working and they are still comin in I would take them out when they come in, again with my belt. If you have doubts about a chain drive workin as a weapon I dunno what to tell you, I have seen a guy hit with one upside the head. nuff said
 
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Sniper4Life,
You exhibit good fighting spirit for someone who is probably pretty young, but I hardly think a motorcycle chain is an effective defense against a firearm.

Please check your PMs.

Jeff
 
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