What the beef with plastic?

[JR24]

Simple economics.. I could care less if one of my Glocks got stolen.. I'd shed a tear if one of my 1911's got stolen..

Yep, its why I keep second guessing my BHP as a carry. Sure I could replace it, but it'd never be the same.

A Glock 19, however, is easy to replace with little fuss.

 

[tarosean]

will chime in with how theirs has held up? Maybe a picture or two?

I did happen to see and hold a couple of VP70's the other day. (No pics sorry). Seemed to have weathered the decades well.

 

[Mike J]

I own steel, aluminum & polymer framed pistols. I like all of them. I usually carry polymer. I don't think anything compares to the feel of an all steel 1911 at the range.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I bought a G17 back about '85. One freind that owned it for a while ( I've sold and traded it several times, it keeps wandering back) checked the ser# and said it was among the very first ones ever imported. It looks nearly the same as the day I bought it. The "plastic" isn't getting soft, or hard, or flaky, or changing color, or anything at all, that anyone can tell. It's the same as it ever was, after nearly 30 years.
I guess that's why they call the stuff "a space-age polymer" .

 

[Mike J]

While not a handgun there are a lot of the old nylon 66 rifles out there that are still in use. I haven't heard of the stocks on any of them disintegrating.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

And then there's the Beretta Pico that has a polymer frame, modular chassis and steel slide/barrel. Theoretically I can buy (will soon be able to buy) aftermarket grips/frames shipped directly to my home and pop the serialized chassis in and I'm ready to go.

I'm digging the polymer framed guns even more now...should be able to buy Pico frames that have custom texturing or palm swells, squared trigger guards etc. thru the mail and just snap the gun parts I like together like Legos.

I know it's "change" and they are not all steel/metal guns but I predict that guns will move to this concept in droves in the next 10 years. I'm ready for it and I'm an old guy. I love my 90 year old Colt Pocket Hammerless pistols but plastic and modular is where it'll be very soon.

I'm already over it.

VooDoo

 

[Chocolate Bayou]

Plastic vs metal

I'm a relatively old codger @ 62. I own 2 tupperware and 4 metal. My CCW is metal and when I go to the range 75% of the time I'm taking along metal. Nothing against the Tupperware , one is a sub-compact and the other is a 5" tactical. I just enjoy the feel of shooting metal more than the other, Also, recoil seems less on the metal with the same ammo I fire in my plastic guns.

 

[Tallball]

I am about to turn 50.

My favourite vehicles, which I drive regularly: 57 Chevy, 67 Mustang, 1970 Ford pickup.

My favorite handguns, which I shoot regularly: various revolvers, 1911, BHP.

I own a plastic car for my wife to drive. I own a couple of plastic guns, they work fine.

I don't hate the plastic, I just love the steel.

 

[420Stainless]

Beef: Most plastic frame handguns are rather homely.

Some don't look too bad and are downright practical, but none thus far could be considered a classic beauty. I do own a Kahr and think its kind of cute though. I know it has problems, but the Caracal looks rather sleek to me. Looks are my only beef though.

 

[stchman]

I own several polymer pistols and several metal framed pistols. I like them both.

With proper care, they will all outlast me.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Yeah, well all you plastic fans can keep 'em as far as I'm concerned.

When the chips are down and you run out of ammunition, it's a METAL gun that makes Superman duck!




Seriously...I don't have a problem with plastic guns, per se. I admittedly lean towards all metal guns but it's a matter of fit (it's got to feel comfortable to hold and shoot) and esthetics (how it looks to me) that's really important to me.

If a plastic gun feels good to me, shoots well, and doesn't look like some ugly piece of excrement, then I'm open to it. If not, then it can take it's place among the scads of other all-metal guns that I don't like either.

 

[Jaymo]

I strongly prefer the looks and feel of metal frames.
That doesn't mean that i'm not crazy about my SR9.
And, I want an SR45 and I keep hoping Ruger will make an SR45C.
I'd snap one up in a heartbeat and use it for CC.
To my hands, the SR, M&P, and XD are the best feeling plastic pistols.

 

[AustinTX]

Fine metal is something to admire and enjoy. Metal also works fine as a tool to get the job done.

Plastic is lighter and in some ways stronger. Guns like glocks have more often than not proven to be more reliable, lighter, easier to maintain, and generally more desirable to carry and use for people that need them for work.

Plastic guns are great tools and are the modern day expected standard as far as I am concerned.

What they are not to me is something to be aesthetically admired and enjoyed anywhere as much as a fine crafted steel firearm.

I see plastic guns as ugly tools that get the job done best.

There's no doubt about the weight advantage of plastic, but there are metal-framed pistols that are every bit as reliable as the polymer options, if not more so.

 

[ku4hx]

I like a good poly gun. They're fun to shoot, reliable and all that. In a sense, I bet my life on one every day. But ...

The only guns I own that people actually ogle and want to hold are the all steel ones with the nice deep blue finish and wood stocks. That goes for shotguns, rifles, revolvers and semi autos. Just last week I was shooting my newly acquired S&W 629 and a couple of people asked what it was. But that was because of the boom.

Many of my guns are old, some very old. I have a couple of old Damascus twist steel barrel shotguns with some of the most beautiful wood you've ever seen. I don't shoot them any more, but when people hold them you'd think they were holding a newborn child.

Poly guns have their place, and I'm a fan for sure, but beautiful in an aesthetic sense, nope ... not to me. There's just something beautiful to me about a gun that's all steel, deeply blued (in various "colors") and fitted with fine wood.

A set of Hogue rubber grips seems appropriate for my 629, but I've got some handguns that just would not look right without their Goncalo Alves wood. And, funny thing is, my all steel blued guns shoot every bit a good as the poly guns. Some even shoot better.

 

[JDR]

And then there's the guy I know who will never shoot much less own a Glock, yet the stock on his Ruger American rifle is made out of......

 

[BLU]

Walt: I do not think a Damascus barrel shotgun that has been through a fire will come out unscathed... nope. I do think it will be far easier to 'clean it up' and present it as a non-shooting heirloom than a melted Glock would be.

I don't care if the technology of plastics exceeds that of titanium. I'm not going to own one. I shot a Glock at the range. I was surprised by it's pleasant trigger pull. I'm still not going to buy one. I won't try to stop anyone else from owning one, but even a pro-polymer 10,000 page scientific report on them will not sway me to purchase one. A plastic frame is not for me.

 

[jcwit]

What in heavens name would I want a non-shooting heirloom for?

 

[anothernewb]

Plastic has its place like everything else. While nothing will ever replace walnut and blued steel for sheer aesthetics and beauty of form (in my book). I certainly wouldn't take one into a situation where it was going to see a high percentage of environmental stress. Plastic has a certain beauty about it too, and it's stability in varying temperature and weather conditions as compared to wood, and corrosion resistance compared to metal are a strong bonus.

My friend has a 60's era GMC pickup. painstakingly detailed to the Nth degree. It's a 4wd, has a highly worked engine, aggressive tires, and a very nice lift kit - it's also got a $5K paint job. He also has a avalanche - also 4wd. Both are nice rigs, both are reliable, and both are plenty tough.

One of them gets driven in the winter, the other doesn't. One gets driven in the parade in the summer, the other doesn't.

 

[sigarms228]

No beef here. I comfortably CCW these and love shooting them. I have a lot of metal SIGs too but my last 4 purchases have been plastic fantastic.

 

[JDR]

With my Glock 21 I can shoot all the steel case ammo I can lay my hands on. And I wouldn't shoot this stuff through my DW Valor on a dare!

 

[CraigC]

I'll put my money on a good poly pistol vs any alloy gun for longevity/duabilty, especially in calibers like .40 or .357sig.

Then kindly do away with the STEEL inserts in your polymer pistol's frame before conducting this test.

Plastic is fine. It works.

But it's souless.

Exactly!

Guns are machines. They have no soul regardless of the materials used. If you want art in a gun, then buy such a gun.

That's a matter of opinion. To say that a Colt SAA engraved by Cuno Helfricht is "just a tool" is to say that a 1965 Corvette is "just a car". For some, one is just as good as any other. For others, it is pure heresy. I think some like to think they believe this because it makes them feel tougher, more serious or superior in some other way. For those who believe guns are just tools, then you will not have to fight we enthusiasts over the latest generation whatever Glock. Just as we won't have to fight you over older S&W's, single action revolvers, 1911's, Hi-Powers and everything else you guys turn your noses up at. We'll quietly pit you for not exacting the same enjoyment we get from our outdated, outmoded, obsolete walnut and blued steel. You don't understand and we're okay with that. Carry on.

 

[GLOOB]

To say that a Colt SAA engraved by Cuno Helfricht is "just a tool" is to say that a 1965 Corvette is "just a car". For some, one is just as good as any other.

"Just as good" is a little bit optimistic. You can find alternatives to both that perform just a wee bit better, nowadays.

As a collector you can seek and admire anything you want. Some people collect stamps. Some people collect Barbie dolls. No problem. But when you deny that there's any benefit of polymer over steel and aluminum alloys in a firearm, you're just pulling the wool over your eyes.

Then kindly do away with the STEEL inserts in your polymer pistol's frame before conducting this test.

Gunmakers have gone to aluminum alloy before plastic. Part of the reason was to reduce weight. To some people, that is an advantage. Now with modern polymer manufacturing, weight is reduced even more, while durability has increased... dramatically. To some, that is an advantage. There are obvious shock absorbing qualities, which are, again, an advantage to some folks. And this market segment could generally care less that there are some steel inserts in the polymer frame. It doesn't ruin their appreciation for how the gun performs.

For the true polymer aficionado, there's the Ruger P series with no steel inserts in the frame. Put that to the test.

Appreciation and nostalgia are fine and good. But if you fail to recognize that a soulless Japanese GTR will run circles around a 1965 Corvette, and that it will continue to do so long after the Corvette is on its fourth engine rebuild, then you are not running on all cylinders.

And since you're making the car analogy, you ought to be fawning over the Delorian for its stainless steel body panels, which are sooo much better than plastic and carbon fiber...

 

[DeepSouth]

What in heavens name would I want a non-shooting heirloom for?

Not to long ago my dad called me over to his house to discuss what I might want of his when passes, he was redoing his will after he retired. Anyway I told him everything he had, HE worked for and as far as I'm concerned it is his to do with what he wants and I'm not willing to fight for any of it and I trust him to what's right between me and my brother, but like I said if he doesn't, so be it. BUT with that said I told him I wanted my grandfathers old rabbit ear shot gun that his grandfather bought when he was 16 in 1882.

That shotgun has "laminated" barrels and is now over 140 years old, I may shoot some skeet with it, or some black powder loaded cowboy loads if I can find them. I wouldn't shoot the gun more than 5 or 6 times. It is realistically a "non-shooting heirloom" worth maybe $2-300 at most, and I want that more than my dads money, house, land or anything else.
And honestly if you do don't understand that thinking, then it can't be explained to you.


To be on topic: I own poly and steel. I carry poly because it's lighter, I like steel because, well I just do. I recently handled a high end sharps rifle, and I couldn't think of better words to describe it than a work of art, I can't imagine anything poly giving me, or many other people, that same thought.

 

[fanchisimo]

DeepSouth,

I fully understand what you mean by a passed on item. I have a single shot 22 Marlin and a old Ithaca shotgun coming my way when my Dad passes that belonged to my Grandpa. They're probably only worth $400 together and aren't anything special in and of themselves, but they have belonged to two generations, and will be some more.

I really wonder if JCwit meant by his question was new firearms that were meant to be admired more than shot, a la a nice 1911 or some such item. I agree for the most part. I buy a firearm to shoot, not for it's aesthetics, soul, or character. I hope one would not take the previously mentioned 60's corvette down a rough gravel road, just the same as I wouldn't want to take a $2000 pistol through rough conditions or EDC.

To me this defeats my purpose in a pistol. This is why I tend to lean towards polymer pistols, but have owned both. I will use what works and works best for me. However this does not represent all firearm owners and hence that is the gap between polymer passion and metal mania. I would hope that both sides can at least agree that both metal and polymer are viable options, each with their merits. It is up to the person to decide which merits to hold in higher regard. It's the people that say that metal is totally inferior to polymer and vice-versa that creates beef. And for this one instance, beef is bad.

 

[anothernewb]

Appreciation and nostalgia are fine and good. But if you fail to recognize that a soulless Japanese GTR will run circles around a 1965 Corvette, and that it will continue to do so long after the Corvette is on its fourth engine rebuild, then you are not running on all cylinders.

love the car analogies but oh I just gotta interject one more off topic! (can't resist - probably why I lose so many "discussions'" with the wife.) Yep, the GTR is a sweet ride But it's in the form of hopped up rev-limiter engine screaming driving sideways hi-tech LED sign. While the vette is the mellow deep throaty rumble thats equally capable leaving a pair of solid black lines from a stoplight, as it is on a country ride with the top down. I'm not knocking on the GTR at all - but it's like a high strung horse. beautiful to look at, fast as the wind - and skittish as frack. hammer the throttle on a high-output 4 or 6 with some power adders, and drop the hammer on 6+ liters of pushrod iron. any and everyone in range of the sound instantly knows which one's which.

Just like firearms - it doesn't matter which one turns your crank - when they go bang, or when they burn rubber - everyone turns 16, and everyone gets excited.

I look at it like this - You'll get hot chicks with either of those cars - (I blame the dang fast & furious movies) The chicks you get with the GTR are the 18 year old wild color spiky hair hard body exposed belly button miniskirt thong and legging wearing hit and quit fun while it lasted kind, while the one you get with the corvette will be more of the long haired full lips sexy curves plunging evening gown smoldering eyes sensual hip sway go all night long love it forever kind.

In the end it comes down to lines. It's just darn hard to make a plastic pistol sexy. It can have a soul - but maybe it's marketing, maybe it's media exposure. but the polymers are a hard edged take no prisoners business end of a warhammer, while [some] steel pistols have a function following form crafted air about them, like a finely made Katana. Both have "soul" but vastly different approaches. Both do their job well, but do so with completely different methodologies. Maybe it's just as simple as that. Curves. look at a classic revolver, 1911, BHP - the icons. they're radiused all over, blended edges. Take a look at a glock or XD the icons of the polymer age. they're squared off, angular. less organic. could it be that simple?