What the Militia is all about...

[Poper]

Colion Noir. I doubt it could be said any better.

..."The problem is people are raising sh***y kids."....."Sh***y kids make sh***y people".....

I'll add one of my own here: People that perpetrate a crime more than once (be it armed robbery, burglary, mail theft, rape, etc.) are career criminals. They do what they do and and it's what they do makes them what they are. Character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching. (and then not bragging about it.)

 

[Ignition Override]

Colion might be the best spokesman for Any applications of the Second Amendment.

His ability to so accurately place, and describe any gun issue within the correct context seems unequaled.

 

[tommy.duncan]

Remember,
Strong men make good times,
Good times make weak men,
Weak men make bad times,
Bad Times make strong men.

It's a cycle we seem to repeat.

 

[Jeff62]

I really like Colion Noir and I really like the store owner. I do not like the “militia” connotation. Maybe time and context will change my mind, I’m in Arkansas so hold off on the flame and shade. I have talked with “militia’s “ , beer gut, racism and ALL THAT GOES WITH makes me strongly dislike.
I’m glad the store owner kept well. I’m always glad when bad guys get their just deserve. My take.

 

[Old Dog]

I do not like the “militia” connotation. Maybe time and context will change my mind, I’m in Arkansas so hold off on the flame and shade. I have talked with “militia’s “ , beer gut, racism and ALL THAT GOES WITH makes me strongly dislike.

Well, I'd submit (no flame or shade intended) that you are buying into the leftist mainstream media's framing of the narrative with regard to the term militia.

I grew up in Michigan, where the "Michigan Militia" was the first "militia" group to achieve nationwide notoriety.

If you don't like the militia connotation, I think you're simply buying into the negative connotation assigned by the MSM. Those guys with beer guts, military surplus cammies who like to go out on weekends and pretend to be soldiers aren't the problem. Let 'em have their fun doing mag dumps with their DPMS and Bushmaster ARs while waddling about on their buddy's farms. We're the problem when we let the MSM get away with telling the nation that middle-aged white vets or retired LE who have "Molon Labe" decals on their pick-up's back window, go to Christian churches on Sundays, fly a U.S. flag in the front yard, may occasionally wear a t-shirt with a Gadsden flag displayed are potential "militant violent extremists" who bear watching by the FBI and DHS.

What Colion is saying is how we should be interpreting the 2nd Amendment -- the militia is all armed, capable adult Americans. And it's not about being ready to defend the country; it's about being ready to defend one's home and community. It has zero to do with putting on a pair of old woodland camo pants, an OD tee-shirt, some desert tan boots that you were never issued on active duty, and running around in a field with an AR-15 pretending you're preparing for the Chinese invasion.

 

[jmorris]

We're the problem when we let the MSM get away with telling the nation that middle-aged white vets or retired LE who have "Molon Labe" decals on their pick-up's back window, go to Christian churches on Sundays, fly a U.S. flag in the front yard, may occasionally wear a t-shirt with a Gadsden flag displayed are potential "militant violent extremists" who bear watching by the FBI and DHS.

Worth repeating. The tactic is to alienate and eliminate over and over until they are all gone.

Machine guns are evil, then it’s just rifles that are black, certain action types. Oh, wait, if it’s an optic, it’s a sniper rifle. They do that because as a group we are still too large. If they can convince enough of us to sell out a portion of our collective, they get us to reduce our collective power, as we are now a smaller group. This works all the way down to single shot, shotgun owners, who will be too small of a group to resist completion of their goal of total disarmament.

Think about that next time you support any measures that reduce freedoms, even if you don’t enjoy them yourself, they will get around to you in good time. Quicker, if you help them take rights from others.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Worth repeating. The tactic is to alienate and eliminate over and over until they are all gone.

Machine guns are evil, then it’s just rifles that are black, certain action types. Oh, wait, if it’s an optic, it’s a sniper rifle. They do that because as a group we are still too large. If they can convince enough of use to sell out a portion of out collective, they get us to reduce our collective power, as we are smaller. This works all the way down to single shot, shotgun owners, who will be too small of a group to resist completion of their goal of total disarmament.

Think about that next time you support any measures that reduce freedoms, even if you don’t enjoy them yourself, they will get around to you in good time. Quicker, if you help them take rights from others.

If you allow 'them' to divide you into small enough groups then you are already outnumbered and conquered.
All gun owners - in fact, all Americans - should be allied against anyone that wants to discard anyone else's civil and personal rights.

 

[jeepnik]

One comment on militias. Group that use militia in their name usually aren’t actual militias. In fact many are pretty much the opposite. These groups have tarnished the concept to the point that news folks misuse the designation causing many to misunderstand what a true militia is.

 

[Space Ghost]

The thing about "militia" is that the vast majority of people get their idea of what that actually is... from ignorant misleading sources like politicians, and the media.
Stands to reason why it leaves a bad taste in their mouth. It's a word that's been weaponized like "assault weapon" or "ghost gun" and stupid phrases like "gun show loophole"...
It's all part of a strategic tactic to win over converts to their side.


I like Colion, and follow his channel. I even bought one of his t-shirts.

You wanna know about the militia... "I am the militia".

Matter of fact, I'm getting ready to head to the VFW to do deposits and parole for the bartenders. Think I'll wear my militia shirt today...

 

[Howland937]

word that's been weaponized like "assault weapon" or "ghost gun" and stupid phrases like "gun show loophole"...

It doesn't help that the word "militia" itself HAS been co-opted by the types the media portrays. Remember a couple of years ago when the hand symbol to suggest things are "ok" was also connected to white supremacy? Not sure if that's still a thing or not, but when such things occur and the correct meaning isn't supported and clarified, we all run the risk of falling under the broad brush strokes.

 

[Old Dog]

It doesn't help that the word "militia" itself HAS been co-opted by the types the media portrays. Remember a couple of years ago when the hand symbol to suggest things are "ok" was also connected to white supremacy? Not sure if that's still a thing or not, but when such things occur and the correct meaning isn't supported and clarified, we all run the risk of falling under the broad brush strokes.

Exactly! And thanks to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the MSM has also accepted without challenge the notion that all right-wing politicians are associated with "hate groups," white nationalists and white supremacists.

There is a distinct agenda that looks to marginalize members of a certain party but especially, gun owners. When we don't challenge the images portrayed of us, the agenda is perpetuated. And notice how, for the most part, the MSM totally ignores stories of gun ownership in the minority communities (for example, there's a large API RKBA group in Southern California that gets no media coverage except in places such as Recoil magazine); when was the last time you saw a news piece on the Pink Pistols or any other of the LGBT RKBA groups?

Colion Noir has addressed the bigger picture of the RKBA movement, and he does a very good job of breaking things down (as he does in the OP video), but unfortunately, as things stand now, he's mostly just preaching to the choir. And that's a shame, because he's exactly the type of person -- young, smart, articulate --who should be able to get through to some in the younger generations if his platform got more attention.

 

[LiveLife]

Words have meaning and their usage could bring us closer to original intent.

There's nothing wrong with using "militia" to bring us back to the original intent of the founders who framed the government and revised the Bill of Rights to ensure viability of the Constitution after fighting back the tyranny of British rule without representation to make American colonists second class royal subjects (Many founders really didn't have issue with being a royal subjects, just not second class subjects without representation). And there's nothing wrong with using "rights" and "infringed" to bring us back to the original intent of the founders when they chose those words to express their intent.

The Supreme Court in Heller clarified the meaning of the Second Amendment as "Militia" and "right of the people" were two separate issues for national defense vs individual defense and ruled the right to keep and bear arms for individuals unattached to the Militia (Which meant all Americans ultimately, including women and slaves as the Constitution was amended/corrected by 14th Amendment) was constitutional - https://www.law.cornell.edu/constit...ler-decision-and-individual-right-to-firearms

So I see nothing wrong with the words the founders chose to use to draft/finalize the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and stand by what they actually mean in 2023. "We the People" have the right to self defense at home (Heller) and away from home (Bruen) using modern arms (Caetano, Miller, Bianchi, etc.) that include large capacity magazines already ruled as "arms" (Caetano, Duncan, etc.) with necessity of ammunition (Renna/Boland v Bonta) as originally intended (Bruen).

And of course, "We the People" also have the right to maintain "well regulated" entities to defend their states/nation.

 

[AlexanderA]

I watched the video. It's a good discussion about self defense, but it really doesn't deal with "the militia" in terms of the 2nd Amendment.

There are three things that can be described by the term "the militia."

The first is what most people think of when they hear "militia" -- self-appointed groups that go out into the woods to play soldier on weekends. The Supreme Court in Presser v. Illinois (1886) held that such groups have no legal standing under the 2nd Amendment, and in fact can be outlawed under state law.

Then, secondly, we have the legal definition of the "militia" under 10 U.S. Code section 246. This includes the organized militia (the National Guard) plus the unorganized militia (all other able-bodied male citizens between the ages of 17 and 44).

Finally, there is the universal militia as envisioned by the Founders in 1791. This was anybody who could pick up a gun (except women or slaves), regardless of age. Today, we would have to add "regardless of race or sex."

This last definition is the only one that's important under the 2nd Amendment. Yes, Justice Scalia, writing the Heller opinion, considered the Militia Clause to be a nullity. But he was wrong. If everybody is a member of the militia, then everybody is entitled to own the types of weapons commonly used by the military (including so-called "assault weapons" and full automatics).

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Maybe it was the wrong video link or something but it didn’t pertain to militia that I could see.

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

Finally, there is the universal militia as envisioned by the Founders in 1791. This was anybody who could pick up a gun (except women or slaves), regardless of age. Today, we would have to add "regardless of race or sex."

This last definition is the only one that's important under the 2nd Amendment. Yes, Justice Scalia, writing the Heller opinion, considered the Militia Clause to be a nullity. But he was wrong. If everybody is a member of the militia, then everybody is entitled to own the types of weapons commonly used by the military (including so-called "assault weapons" and full automatics).

Please, elaborate on the underlined comments on Scalia “Heller opinion,” as I don’t understand what you mean.

 

[westernrover]

Militia has a legal definition in the US Code.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

10 USC Ch. 12: THE MILITIA (house.gov)


I see this was mentioned in the thread about 20 minutes ago, but I've spelled it out because it's worth repeating.

 

[AlexanderA]

Militia has a legal definition in the US Code.

Yes, but as I pointed out, the current definition of "the militia" in the U.S.Code is not relevant to the 2nd Amendment. For that, under an originalist interpretation, we have to go back to the militia as it existed in 1791 -- which was much broader than the current definition. In 1791, everybody who could carry a musket was subject to callup for militia service. There were no medical standards other than being able to breathe and walk, and no upper age limit. (Of course, slaves and women were not included then. But women and black people would certainly be included now.)

 

[AlexanderA]

Please, elaborate on the underlined comments on Scalia “Heller opinion,” as I don’t understand what you mean.

Scalia, in the Heller case, went out of his way to decouple the RKBA from any connection with the militia. But by the same token, he de facto overruled the 1939 Miller case, which implied that weapons in common use by the military would be protected under the 2nd. (Miller was convicted under the NFA of possessing an unregistered sawed-off shotgun. The Court said it wasn't protected because -- as far as the Court could "judicially notice" -- it wasn't part of the ordinary military equipment. The strong implication was that if Miller's crime had been possessing an unregistered machine gun, his conviction would have been overturned as violating the 2nd.)

ETA: It's true that as a practical matter, the Court in the Miller case would probably have found a way to uphold the NFA. But that's speculation. According to the words and reasoning of the opinion, weapons having a reasonable connection to the military would be protected, while weapons not having such a reasonable connection (such as a sawed-off shotgun) would not be.

 

[hoardingthemanual]

How do you discern a vigilante? Contrary to action movies, there’s not a place for them. “Anti-heroes” are good for fiction stories. Describing exactly what you’re defending against is the first step to finding vigilantes and glowies and fed boys.

 

[Poper]

How do you discern a vigilante? Contrary to action movies, there’s not a place for them. “Anti-heroes” are good for fiction stories. Describing exactly what you’re defending against is the first step to finding vigilantes and glowies and fed boys.

It's not about vigilantes. It's about taking responsibility for your own protection and that of your family/loved ones.
A "vigilante" is, by definition, a common person/common citizen who is a member of a group that takes law enforcement matters into their own hands and circumvents the official, recognized law enforcement apparatus in force, I.E "that is, coercive groups organized in a manner not officially sanctioned by state law and with the purpose of establishing legal and moral claims.".
source: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-war-america/EB0095210D3035D260CACFE5494B6BFF
Most people think of the night riders of the vigilance committees of the old west or the movie "Death Wish" when they hear the word "vigilante", though that is an extreme and fictional example.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves?"
-- Tench Coxe

 

[shafter]

People can split hairs regarding the definition of who the militia is all they want, but in modern times of standing armies and law enforcement, any unit that doesn't have official governmental standing is likely to be irrelevant concerning foreign threats, and crushed if they attempt action domestically.

We've moved so far past meeting with muskets on the village green that I wouldn't associate myself with the term militia for anything.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

It doesn't help that the word "militia" itself HAS been co-opted by the types the media portrays. Remember a couple of years ago when the hand symbol to suggest things are "ok" was also connected to white supremacy? Not sure if that's still a thing or not, but when such things occur and the correct meaning isn't supported and clarified, we all run the risk of falling under the broad brush strokes.

I always thought the okay symbol was a troll joke. No way anybody took that seriously?

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

People can split hairs regarding the definition of who the militia is all they want, but in modern times of standing armies and law enforcement, any unit that doesn't have official governmental standing is likely to be irrelevant concerning foreign threats, and crushed if they attempt action domestically.

We've moved so far past meeting with muskets on the village green that I wouldn't associate myself with the term militia for anything.

I used to think this too but these days, I'm not so sure

 

[AlexanderA]

People can split hairs regarding the definition of who the militia is all they want, but in modern times of standing armies and law enforcement, any unit that doesn't have official governmental standing is likely to be irrelevant concerning foreign threats, and crushed if they attempt action domestically.

We've moved so far past meeting with muskets on the village green that I wouldn't associate myself with the term militia for anything.

What we're talking about here is the concept of a militia in terms of the 2nd Amendment. It doesn't matter if it's practical today for defense policy. For an originalist judge, we have to turn the clock back to 1791.

But there's a paradox. The minute a group forms a non-state-sanctioned "militia," it loses 2nd Amendment protection (Presser v. Illinois). And a state-sanctioned militia (the National Guard, etc.) isn't helpful to our argument either.

No, we're talking about an unorganized and inchoate militia, that everybody belongs to by virtue of being U.S. citizens. No action is required to belong, and no records are kept. On the contrary. You cannot attempt to organize. If you do, you're back to the Presser v. Illinois situation.