What to do when you see a "No Guns" Sign

[The Tourist]

Only problem is, you don't have a right to carry on someone else's property...

Technically, this country belongs to the English and the Spanish. We took it. In the final analysis, we didn't like the terms of the deal.

I don't like pencil necks who erode my enumerated rights. I understand my dangers. I simply don't care.

Edit: That's not idle chatter. I was arrested in 1979 for a CCW on a pistol.

 

[Tequila Mockingbird]

I don't like pencil necks who erode my enumerated rights.

I guess I don't understand what enumerated right you think you have to carry a handgun on someone else's property when he has communicated to you that he doesn't allow it. Does your right to carry somehow trump his property rights?

 

[The Tourist]

Let me phrase it this way.

Today in the local paper was a story on the rounding up of the last of the Nazi war criminals. Since most of them would be in their 90's, many felt that the urgency had passed. After all, "it was a long time ago."

I'm finding the same view on our Revolutionary War soldiers. We speak in great praise of the WWII and Vietnam vets, but the events of the war in 1776 seem to just be a dusty old book.

That is, unless you had your head ripped off by a British musket ball.

I believe rights are like muscles. Forget to use them, and they atrophy.

When a merchant invites me into his store, he is telling me that my patronage and my money are needed and welcomed. When he insists on limiting my rights--under The Consitution, I might add--he is basically telling me to once again yoke myself to a system where "I say so" trumps not only my rights but my ability to redress and refusal.

He does have the right to have me arrested. Been there done that. The food is terrible.

I say, toss the Tory's tea into the harbor and practice saying "no" a little more often.

 

[Tequila Mockingbird]

Tourist,

I understand your point. The point I was trying to make is that the Constitution protects your rights vis a vis the government, and the enumerated rights in the Constitution are rights that the government may not infringe on. When you are invited to someone else's property, it's on the understanding that you will follow the rules that the property owner has laid down: no smoking, no profanity, no drinking, no firearms, whatever. All of these prohibitions might arguably run afoul of some constitutional right if they were exercised by the government, but a private property owner is within his rights to enforce any of them.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Tequila Mockingbird wrote:

The point I was trying to make is that the Constitution protects your rights vis a vis the government, and the enumerated rights in the Constitution are rights that the government may not infringe on.

From everything I've seen, the individuals who comprise the Federal government ignore the Constitution whenever they possibly can. Which is all the time. And they might as well, as the Constitution isn't going to fight back and do anything to them. No, it simply sits there. In fact, the Constitution is almost as effective at protecting your rights as words on a piece of parchment. : )

-Sans Authoritas

 

[bogie]

Well, some of us were hoping...

Instead, it appears as if this thread has also been taken over by the clueless chest thumpers.

 

[hobgob]

He does have the right to have me arrested. Been there done that. The food is terrible.

I think this thread is drifting! The point is that we shouldn't have to worry bout this at all, so talk to these businesses and let them know that you would like to shop there, but also tell them that your not going to unless they change policy. Then all of this "I'm a harda$$ and will carry anyway" is a moot point. We are trying to take THE HIGH ROAD here. I think most of us prefer t-shirt and jeans to striped jump suits.

 

[.cheese.]

here in Florida, if it isn't a prohibited place by law, this is my approach to dealing with the sign,

"oooh. A sign. How cute."

and I walk in.... armed.

 

[mewachee]

I like the original premise of this tread, and yes it has drifted a little. However, if I tell you that you can or cannot do something in my home and/or office, you need to respect me and/or leave if you disagree.

 

[The Tourist]

thread is drifting...let them know that you would like to shop there

The OP asks "what to do" and it's there that I find some of our answers a bit disingenuous.

We often talk about muggings and what we would do if caught in the crossfire of a bank hold-up.

After pages of that kind of discussion, we find that lots of us fear a little sign. Yikes, what if the tradesman used harsh language.

To me, taking the "high road" means also being honest in giving advice and a truthful observation. If you advise folks to "come out blazing" in defiance of a felon, but run scared back to your car to hide a handgun, then I have to question just what are our true opinions.

The enumerated rights are simply a declaration of rights under law for a common man in unpopular stances. If I have to couch my speech and conduct because of a "little sign," then I have to wonder if the Bill of Rights is actually still in use.

 

[bogie]

Okay... We got two clueless that are definitely from Florida. Who is ahead? The sunshine state, or the land of steers and...

Every dime you spend in a store that posts an insulting sign goes to pay to keep that sign up and visible.

Then the place a couple of doors down the block posts their own sign, telling you that they think that you're scum.

And you spend money there.

And before you know it, those signs are all over, reminding voters that "guns are dangerous, and shouldn't be allowed here."

Congratulations. You are facilitating your destruction.

Do you still feel good about it?

 

[plexreticle]

Well, some of us were hoping...

Instead, it appears as if this thread has also been taken over by the clueless chest thumpers.

I think showing some lackey manager your receipts from another store is pretty clueless. But if that tickles your fancy I say rock on.

 

[hobgob]

To me, taking the "high road" means also being honest in giving advice and a truthful observation. If you advise folks to "come out blazing" in defiance of a felon, but run scared back to your car to hide a handgun, then I have to question just what are our true opinions.

My true Opinion is that if you carry anyway into those places of business then you are not confronting the problem posted in this thread. Sure you can carry in these places and buy whatever you want. But in my state if your found in the act, thats a misdimeanor and can result in the revocation of a CHL. So This is why I agree with Bogie on this and the better course of action is to either respectfully attempt to change the managers mind about his policy, or take your business elsewhere. I am not afraid what of he is gonna say, but I do like having my CHL and would like to hold on to for a while.
p.s. i know concealed means concealed. I think we can all agree that most of us know how to conceal our firearms and can avoid detection.

 

[bogie]

Okay - How many of you are okay with being insulted by these signs? Because that's what they do.

How many of you want to see MORE of the signs, signs which teach folks who are fencesitters, and the younger generation, that guns are something to be avoided?

I do not feel like suffering fools kindly. You can beat your chests like semi-evolved primates all you want, and it does not change the world. All that changes the world is action and persuasion.

Give your money to those who insult you. Encourage others to do the same.

Sick. Why are you even present on this forum?

 

[WayneConrad]

bogie, I agree with you on the principle of this matter, but you're going off the rails. Those who disagree with you and I on this matter are not what you just said. They are much more our friends than are those who put up those signs. I think you should step back, relax, take a deep breath, and reconsider what you just said.

 

[bogie]

How many of these folks wish to see more of those signs?

I guess that they think that they're funny or something.

 

[Prince Yamato]

The thing is, in Texas, there's are like a hundred different "no firearms" signs that you can see around town, but only two that carry any legal weight (the 51% sign and the 30.06 sign). If I see any other signs, I just laugh. If I refused to give money to all antis, then my sister wouldn't get any Xmas gifts

 

[bogie]

And every time someone who is sitting on the fence on the issue sees one of those signs, it is reinforced that "guns are bad."

We've got those signs here in Missouri - not the same format, for the pedantic nitpickers, but the same intent. And we've got all sorts of "non-legal" formats.

I don't spend money there.

And I tell them why.

And you know something? All you folks who think you are being smart and tricky?

In four years, the signs which you see as "non-legal" may get voted into legality.

And four years after that, they may give the law some teeth.

And four years after that they may decide to not allow you to carry outside your house - oh, you've got your permit, but what good is it?

Talking to merchants is the ULTIMATE grass roots effort.

But hey, I guess it's just silly. Maybe I should join the ranks of the "concealed is concealed" scofflaws.

 

[divemedic]

the facts:

boycotts don't work. Disney has a new boycott announced against them on an almost weekly basis. They don't care. Publix supermarkets have lobbied, campaigned, and even filed lawsuits to ban firearms.

I ignore the signs. I am not clueless, and "I get it"- "it" being what you are trying to sell. I just think you are misguided. The signs carry no legal weight, and I don't have to obey them, so I don't.

BTW- as far as the "property rights" argument- that horse has been beaten many times over the last few weeks. For a summary of what the courts have ruled on this, click here.

 

[bogie]

Boycotts DO work.

Disney is just not worried about Bubba's Back Country Snake Handlers getting all offended that they allow them homasekshuals on the property...

But I'm not even TALKING about using the "B" word. And property rights has nothing to do with it either.

Just simply talk to the people who own/manage the places. Don't spend money there. Make sure the owners/manager know why they don't have your business.

Are there alternatives to Publix? I'd assume so. I know there are alternatives to the local Schnucks chain here in the midwest.

And I made sure that the store's management knew that they'd lost a customer. In several stores.

Maybe the signs come down. But if you do NOTHING but smirk and walk past the signs, they stay up. Guaranteed. And since other business owners will see them, more will go up.

Would you go in a store that had a "No Veterans Allowed" sign?

What about one that says "No Coloreds" - There are probably still a few of them out there.

Every dime you spend with the people encourages them to think that their marketing is working. And they're not psychic. If you do NOT talk to them, they assume that you don't have a problem with their insulting and bigoted signage.

Your dollars spent in these places will lead to more anti-gun attitude, and anti-gun legislation.

 

[The Tourist]

My true Opinion is that if you carry anyway into those places of business then you are not confronting the problem

I agree. My comment in that post was simply to state let's get real and tell people what we would actually do.

How many threads here have you read about bravery and daring-do? And now how many posts have you read about returning to your car and stashing the pistol, or doing a boycott. (Which is a good idea, by the way, especially now.)

My Dad had a saying on things like this. He would confront the guy and call him a "rough, tough cream puff."

I would rather know what people actually did, not what they opine. If we are going to keep our enumerated rights (especially if the Democrats secure the White House) I'd like to know with whom I stand.

 

[jimbob86]

Not So.

boycotts don't work.

They DO work, Sometimes.....

In the Omaha area, boycotts, letters/phonecalls/e-mails and "No Guns=No Money" cards have been effective at Appleby's, Famous Dave's BBQ, Valentino's Pizza, and others. No Frills Supermarkets have not taken their signs down..... yet. We are working on it...........

 

[bdickens]

For my first post, I'm going to state the same thing I said on the Texas CHL Forum http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/index.php:

I don't know what the law is in other States, so this is Texas-specific.

After much internal debate, I have decided that I am going to institute the following personal policy:

Compliant signs I am of course going to obey. I am going to carry right past signs that are obviously non-compliant (gunbusters, "no weapons allowed, etc)". The near-compliant signs I am going to take on a case-by case basis.

Here's why:

Compliant signs are obvious. I obey the law.

The obviously non-compliant sign does not apply to me. It clearly does not meet the requirements of the law and therefore does not constitute proper notice. Now, I know what you're going to say: "forget them! I'm not going to give my hard-earned money to anti-gun bigots." Is the business bigoted against gun owners? How do you know? The sign? Not necessarily. Most business owners and managers are sheeple like everybody else. They are not informed on the issue and haven't given five seconds worth of thought to the Second Amendment or RKBA. All they know about guns is the propaganda they are spoon-fed by the mass media. They are probably either supplied their "no guns" signs by their corporate masters or they were looking around the office supply and picked them up along with the "no soliciting" and "no food and drinks" signs. And put the "no guns" signs up with just as much thought as the others.

All I want to do right now is get a pair of shoes or something. Now is not the time to educate the store owner on RKBA. Nor do I have the energy to devote to ferreting out every possible source of anti-gun bigotry in the Houston area. If the business is truly prejudiced against me, then they can just expend a little effort to do the research so they can give me the proper notice. There is no secret about what the requirements are. If they really cared that much, they'd put up the proper sign.

The near-compliant signs are a possible sticky point. On one hand, the law is the law and the requirements are right there in black and white. Block letters. Contrasting colors. One inch high. Etc. On the other hand, I'm not going to go around with a ruler and say to myself "well, the letters ore only 15/16" high, I'm going through" That's not the hill I'm willing to die on.

The typewritten sheet that has the correct wording on it I'll blow by if its somewhere I want or need to be. Otherwise, I'll take my money somewhere else and probably let them know about it, too. Taco Cabana and their ilk are a special case. Even though they have an obviously non-compliant sign with 1/2" letters, their position has been made well-known so I'm going to respect their wishes and take my legally owned and legally carried defensive sidearm, and my money, elsewhere. And, I'm going to write them about it too.

 

[The Tourist]

the law is the law

Wisconsin has no motorcycle helmet law. We did at one time.

That is thanks to the 10,000 bikers who rode helmetless down East Washington Avenue and supported both the WBBA and ABATE.

Ultimately, you get the government you deserve.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Welcome to THR, Byron!