What would this be?

[eastwood44mag]

Random question:

A 12 gauge smoothbore pump action that leaves the factory without a shoulder stock is considered an "other weapon." Would a semi-auto be considered the same? Reason I ask is that in my understanding, a "handgun" is designed to be operated with one hand. Technically, would a semi-auto shotgun that lacks a shoulder stock be designed to be operated with one hand?

Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Sam1911]

The action style doesn't matter.

A non-shoulder-fired firearm over 26" in overall length is an "other firearm."

Under 26" and rifled it is a handgun, or if a smooth-bore handgun, it becomes a Title II "Any Other Weapon."

If it has a shoulder stock it is either a shotgun or a rifle. If under 26" and/or with a barrel length of less than 18" (shotgun) or 16" (rifle) it will be a Title II "short-barreled" version of those.

 

[Prince Yamato]

You need a semi-auto "shotgun" that leaves the factory in pgo configuration that has an overall length of 26" or more to do what you want to do and avoid the nfa.

 

[Sam1911]

You need a semi-auto "shotgun" that leaves the factory in pgo configuration that has an overall length of 26" or more to do what you want to do and avoid the nfa.

What do you mean "do what [he wants] to do?" What does he want to do?

 

[eastwood44mag]

Prince is pretty close to the mark.

The crux of my question is whether a semi-auto in a PGO configuration would be classified as AOW or as a handgun, if the barrel was less than 18" (since you would "theoretically" be able to operate it with one hand).

Not that I would want anything of that configuration, but I'm just curious as to what that would work out to be (probably shouldn't be left alone with my thoughts--somehow this will probably spawn a zombie debate).

 

[Prince Yamato]

"do what [he wants] to do?" What does he want to do?

He "wants" a semi-auto "other". Basically, he wants a firearm that fires 12 gauge shells, in a semi-automatic fashion, that is over 26" in length but lacks a stock, has a barrel less than 18", and not have to pay a $200 tax.

 

[tyeo098]

He "wants" a semi-auto "other". Basically, he wants a firearm that fires 12 gauge shells, in a semi-automatic fashion, that is over 26" in length but lacks a stock, has a barrel less than 18", and not have to pay a $200 tax.

Uh, AOW transfer fees are $5.00

Making an AOW/SBS is $200.

 

[Quiet]

Doesn't matter what type of action it is, it's all about barrel length & overall length.

It could be slide action, bolt action, lever action, semi-auto or single-shot...
- If it has a smoothbore barrel with a length less than 18" and an overall length less than 26" and there is no shoulder stock attached to it, then it is a Title 2 AOW.
- If it has a smoothbore barrel with a length of greater than 18" and an overall length greater than 26" and there is no shoulder stock attached to it, then it is a Title 1 Other.

Also, there are no manufacturers that makes a firearm with a smoothbore barrel of less than 18" in length and with an overall length greater than 26" and does not have a shoulder stock attached to it. Manfactures make others with a smoothbore barrel length of 18" or greater, because BATFE considers a firearm with a smoothbore barrel of less than 18" & no shoulder stock to be an AOW regardless of overall length (smoothbore handgun/Marble Game Getter ruling?).

It's not too difficult to get a Saiga-12 AOW. So, why not go the AOW route?

 

[Sam1911]

Exactly as Quiet said. The Title II AOW classification doesn't have anything to do with action type. The distinction there between a Title II AOW and a Title I "Other Firearm" hinges on keeping the overall length above 26". If it is less than 26" OAL, then it is considered a "concealable" weapon, and therefore falls into the smoothbore handgun definition of AOWs.

Now, this next point ABSOLUTELY HINGES on the firearm having been made as an "Other Firearm" -- without a stock. If it had a stock from the factory, and you swap on a barrel less than 18", that's a Title II Short Barreled Shotgun (NOT an AOW).

But, if it somehow came from the factory as an "Other Firearm" you can put any barrel you want on it so long as the total package in firing condition is 26" long or more.

...

Having said all of that. What we're not discussing yet is the question of Title II "Destructive Devices." One of the big reasons, it seems, that manufacturers generally don't sell semi-auto PGOs is that they're already sort of pushing the limits of what the ATF will allow as a firearm over .50 cal that is exempted from DD classification. Most 12 ga. shotguns are, by default. But there's no guarantee ANY shotgun would be. So far, the ATF has allowed the exemption to stand for pump-action PGOs. If a manufacturer started making semi-auto PGOs, they may quickly discover that the ATF declares their product to be a Title II DD, and they, at the very least, have to recall all of them and have them destroyed. (Or, like the SPAS-12s, etc., the owners are required to register them.)

I believe these discussions have already taken place between the manufacturers and the BATFE, back when they started putting pump-action PGOs on the market.