What would you do?

[harmonic]

this whole, no one saw you enter just doenst happen,

Nope, you're wrong. The actual event that inspired this poll happened exactly like that.

The gentleman entered the store which was being robbed by a teenager. The teenaged bandit was using an unloaded gun. The gentleman drew his legal handgun and ordered the bandit to drop his weapon. The teenager complied.

Personally, I would have retreated and called the police. I have not been professionally trained in such situations and if I ordered the BG to surrender, what if he turned and fired at me? Then I might feel compelled to return fire. I've been in chaos before, and it's entirely possible that I could end up accidentally killing the clerk as well as the BG.

Or maybe the BG would kill the clerk. Or, worse yet, maybe the BG would kill me.

Sorry. "Hero" is nowhere tattooed on my body.

 

[RobTzu]

I'd prefer to call 911 and hide, while obtaining as much info on the BG as I could. And then let the cops chase him. If I was 99% convinced that he was going to shoot the clerk, I would draw my weapon and fire.

What he said, just with better grammar and punctuation.

 

[CoRoMo]

I'd hate for the clerk to have a gun and draw at the same time as me, kill BG and then see me aiming my weapon in his direction.

I'll stop the threat that endangers my life or the life of a loved one.

 

[BobbyQuickdraw]

Bear in mind that if he sees you on your phone, he may just shoot you as you hide.

I'm in the Draw my gun crowd and then command him to stop, dont move, etc, if I feel like action is necessary.

 

[KINGMAX]

I am not a LEO

I am not a law enforcement officer, thus no authority to arrest nor detain anyone for any lenght of time.

Unless it is a 'Felony in progress', I don't think you can do a citizens arrest. I suppose If I were in a store being robbed, I would not attempt to do anything stupid. A fire fight w/ alot of people around, not a good idea.

Now - If I catch you in my house, and I feel you are there to do harm to my family or myself, well - the probability of you getting a load of hot Winchester silvertips. Yes - you are in the right spot at the wrong time!

 

[SDG]

If I knew FOR SURE that the situation was as presented, I would like to think that I would draw and command or draw and fire - whatever seemed most appropriate. But, last time I checked, I am not omniscient and I would want to be real sure that I was doing the right thing before I get involved.

 

[jungleroy]

If the world was perfect and predictable, Well I would have avoided the store if I knew it was going to be robbed.
If I was to be found in such a position, I would like to hope that, I could find a safe place and make the call to 911.
Of course nothing says that the gun would not then be pointed at me as I make my egress. Then I would defend my self, and still find cover and make the call.

 

[LT1coupe]

Like was mentioned, due to the layout of most convenience stores I assume if I saw the BG he's either already seen me or is about to. I draw & I back away to cover if possible trying to fiqure out the best move

 

[verb0s]

I read the Irvine World News every week it comes out. This kind of thing happens a couple times a month. Most of the time the BG acts as if he has a gun and intend to shoot people, but no gun is ever produced. He produces a slip of paper saying he has a gun and wants money. The money is forked over and this guy runs like hell.

The second type (happened a couple times in the last 6mo) a gun with a gun enters the establishment, randomly points the gun at people and items and demands money. Every dollar is handed over, and guy takes the money and goes for a getaway vehicle or just walks away.

The third type, The guy takes the gun out for all the see, totally confident, sticks the gun in someone's face, and demands money (verbally) from that person. Money is handed over, and guy takes his gun and leaves.

For the first type, its doubtful that guy even has a gun. Or he has a painted airsoft, or a BB gun. I'd feel confident to take out my gun and prevent a robbery. He'll probably run away as quickly as he can. If not, I'll hold him there (on the floor) until the cops arrive.

The second type, its very unpredictable. Maybe hes just nuts. Or he has a fake gun and tries to act as if its real. Calling the cops right away is a good choice and stay out of it. I'd rather not approach a nut with a loaded gun thats ready to kill. But once the police intervenes, I'm ready to assist them if they need me.

The third type, fake gun or not, I feel I need to intervene and try to stop the robbery. He would probably point the gun at me or run away. If he points the gun in my direction, I can legally start shooting. If I have a small caliber (like a P22), I'd try to chop his gun-welding arm off with bullets. If my opinion that more effective than shooting in the chest. If its a larger caliber (like a 9mm) then its a head shot.

The problem with this situation is that I need to be in a spot that he can see me and the gas station attendant so he is more likely to turn his attention to me than use the attendant as a hostage or something. So when I yell out that I have a gun and want him to surrender his, he is more likely to point his gun away from the attendant. And as he swings his gun towards me I could either shoot or yell again for him to drop his weapon. And the attendant would not be in the line of my fire.

 

[mekender]

verbos, you are assuming that in a stressful situation that you would be able to discern all of those facts...

my guess is that even if the guy was holding a snickers up, the average person wouldnt be able to discern that it wasnt a gun... panic sets in, adrenaline increases, breathing quickens, tunnel vision occurs... i would bet that you wouldnt have time to think, let alone determine which one of the 3 scenarios you mentioned was occuring

 

[CryingWolf]

The problem with one and two is you don't have anyone coming to help. Lets say a friend falls to the ground clutching their chest and they go unconscious do you? a. start CPR or b. call help then start CPR.

BG robbing store lets pick number three and get the troops rolling in. If you want to be a hero and engage, fine, but at least you have help coming.

 

[sacp81170a]

I am an LEO, and I would back out, find good cover where I could observe, and call for backup. Only if it looked like the guy was preparing to shoot would I shoot. Any time you can keep the bullets from having to fly around at random in a populated area, you should take that opportunity. If you have to shoot, then shoot. If you don't have to shoot, then don't shoot.

 

[Biker]

Picture this: You walk into a C-Store and observe a man - 6'1", about 200lb, long hair tied back, beard, black bandanna, old jeans, engineer boots, leather vest holding a gun on an average dressed guy and yelling something you can't make out.

According to many here, the guy with the gun would be shot on the spot.

Well, you would be shooting *me* if I was stupid enough to try a citizens arrest on a man.

I may not be a damn *Eensteen*, but I'm not dumb enough to put myself in that position. Appearances can be decieving.

Biker

 

[98C5]

I voted call 911. Then describe to the operator what I was wearing and tell them I am armed just in case the BG started blasting. I would also describe the BG in best detail I could. This way the LEO's know I am a good guy. I would not try and play the 'hero' unless the BG was looking for more than money, like shooting at people in random, etc.


The one question that I would have is: What or how would I feel if the BG gunned down the clerk when I could have put down the BG.

Almost impossible to say "I would do this...." because there are so many variables.

 

[fearless leader]

I'd retreat, call 911.

I think if cover was afforded me, I would take up a position to watch over the clerk if I could. If he shoots the clerk (who knew the job was dangerous when he accepted it), and I see it, while dangerous, I have the right to Citizens arrest.

If I felt confortable doing so, depending on the circumstances, distances, cover, bystanders, etc., I might try it providing he fired on the clerk.

If he left without incident, I would try to gather info as to direction, description, and automobile info if I can.
Like was mentioned before; if no one else is shooting, I don't want to be the one to start.

Besides, wouldn't you feel quite the horses a** if the guy you opened fire on was a CCW person holding a BG at gun point while the clerk is in the lavatory?

If you catch him coming out of the store, after wittnessing a forcible felony you can see if he is alone and challenge from behind something solid.

 

[fearless leader]

Quote: The problem with this situation is that I need to be in a spot that he can see me and the gas station attendant so he is more likely to turn his attention to me than use the attendant as a hostage or something. So when I yell out that I have a gun and want him to surrender his, he is more likely to point his gun away from the attendant. And as he swings his gun towards me I could either shoot or yell again for him to drop his weapon. And the attendant would not be in the line of my fire.

If you choose to engage that way, why not draw attention away from the clerk, since you have him in your sights, by asking, "who's car is this I just hit?" You can challenge or engage after he turns to look at you.

Just be careful it's not Biker

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Why are so many assuming that those of us who feel like it's worth it to risk our lives for a fellow innocent human being are just doing it to "be a hero?"

 

[Biker]

I've never met an adult innocent human being, including myself.

Biker

 

[Harpo]

This situation brings up a point that is often overlooked: If I draw or shoot, how will my role be interpreted by others who show up in the middle of the confrontation? Without a uniform or a badge, the next person through the door (or responding LEO's) could easily see me as the BG, and make the same choice.

It's easy to take the mindset that "I'm the good guy, and everyone can see that", but that's not the way it works. On the street, any civilian with a weapon is perceived as the BG.

I'd retreat and call 911.

 

[30-06 lover]

I have taken a few LE classes, and this senerio has been the subject of discussion a few times. The hardest part is not knowing all the facts. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they are not there. If there are say two BGs, and you stop the threat of one not knowing the there is another BG in the store, the other BG may kill you, or worse your family if they are there. If they did not see me and the clerk is not yet shot, I would stay put (so long as I was still out of their view) and make a good witness. Things started going downhill, I would try to save the live on non felons.

 

[Keegan]

ArfinGreebly makes a good point, anyone that's called 911 before knows about the precious seconds that tick by while you go through the automated answering system to get to the right person. I keep the number to the front desk at the PD in my cell, would be a lot easier to call there and quickly tell whoever answers what's happening and where, then draw down and either fire or order surrender, depending on what level of aggression the BG is presenting.

 

[dralarms]

I also voted retreat and call 911, Can't see myself putting me and others in danger over a few dollars. I'd try and be a good witness, unless he started shooting people then I would "try" and intervene. That would depend on the situation, IE how many of them VS how many of me.

 

[redneckrepairs]

I dial 911 and leave the phone open to record . assuming i am not noticed by then i take cover , if i am noticed i obey him as long as the gun is on me . Unless he starts shooting tho in no event tho do i with the crevat(s) that i wont be herded to a back room nor will i be frisked . If they herd me back it is to kill me out of sight , if they frisk me they will find my ccw and kill me .. so either will make me draw and fight no matter the conciquince . Other than that than that it is to be the best witness i can and not allow anyone else to be killed either . money and cars dont matter to me .

 

[Juna]

In a perfect world, I think most people would shoot him. Warning him gives him the chance to shoot you or the cashier, in addition to anyone else. It gives him the chance to get away and rob another store or potentially kill someone (he's already displayed willingness to commit violence). Calling 911 makes you run the risk of being heard. Plus, if you hang up, 911 will call back, and he could also hear that, even if your phone is on vibrate. Retreating or moving runs you the risk of being detected, shot by the assailant, or killed by his accomplice.

This is, of course, assuming you know 100% that there's no one else in the store (no accomplice) and no lookout or fellow armed gang members outside. In this case, I truly believe the only reason most people would hesitate would be for fear of subsequent legal trouble, which I think reflects poorly on our society--not necessarily on that individual who opts not to act. It's a valid concern, but it's a damn shame that it has to be a concern at all. That very concern is something criminals bank on to keep law abiding citizens from acting.

I think once a person demonstrates a willingness to commit violence (pointing a gun--or anything that resembles a gun--at someone in an armed robbery constitutes violence), that person takes a lot of risks upon himself, one of which is the possibility of death or grave bodily harm from an armed victim or police. That person knew the risks when he decided to commit a violent act upon innocent, law-abiding citizens. I cannot fathom holding the hero legally responsible for shooting a violent criminal and potentially saving multiple lives.

 

[sacp81170a]

I cannot fathom holding the hero legally responsible for shooting a violent criminal and potentially saving multiple lives.

Why are so many assuming that those of us who feel like it's worth it to risk our lives for a fellow innocent human being are just doing it to "be a hero?"

taurusowner, I think the first quote answers your question. As for me, I think resolving the problem without shooting unless absolutely necessary is by far the better course of action. By trying to take the guy at gunpoint, you're forcing him to make a decision to shoot or not. If he's tweaking on meth, he probably ain't gonna be making a rational decision...

The only realistic answer to the first quote is, "Shooting a bad guy doesn't make you a hero, it makes you the subject of investigation and lawsuits." Sad fact, but it's the more likely reality. Don't expect to be given the Key to the City and a parade.