Whataburger bans OC in TX restaurants

Status
Not open for further replies.
This has been discussed ad nauseum in many forums. Two arguments commonly made in support of OC are

"The visible presence of a firearm is a deterrent to criminals; the sight of an armed citizen will cause them to seek a weaker target."

and

"OC is not that offensive; most people are not that observant and don't even notice the gun."

Criminals are a subset of People. If most people don't even notice the gun, then most criminals probably don't either, which negates much the deterrent benefit.

Of the few people that do notice an openly carried handgun, only some will be offended. And only some will be criminals of which only some will be deterred. No hard numbers, but clearly those deterred and those offended are both an extremely small segment of the population.
 
wojownik said:
but the other side of the equation is that the "management" (probably a twenty-something kid - maybe even a teenager) would be in the uncomfortable position of approaching the posturing AK-laden boob Not the king of thing a 20-something manager (or whomevers on duty) may feel up to doing, for fear of a confrontation. Or dealing with the mess of calling the police to ask the boob to leave. So corporate ducked the entire question, banning OC.
Click to expand...

I guess it is not such an uncomfortable position as WB also sent a memo to employees advising them how to tell open carrying customers that open carry is not allowed. As I said earlier, we will have to wait and see if the 30.07 signs go up or not on Jan 1. Until then, all this policy has the effect of doing in Texas. is requesting that rifles and shotgun not be openly carried in the stores.

Most of the discussion has been about Texas since the request appears to be a response to Texas open carry. But WB has stores in several states, most if not all of which already allow legal open carry. Did this request just go out as a new policy for Texas only or is it a change in policy for all stores in all states?

alexander45 raises a more concerning issue:

"and we’re known for a family friendly atmosphere that customers have come to expect from us. We’re the gathering spot for Little League teams, church groups and high school kids after football games."

alexander45 said:
It's kinda like reading we have all of these good wholesome folk and we don't need you gun folk spooking them because ya know gun folk aren't any of these things...
Click to expand...

The axiomatic assumption seems to be that gun owners/carriers are an exclusive and marginalized group and that while we might be tolerated, we need to know our place is not within mainstream society.
 
This is not Starbucks. Their objection was clearly targeted toward progressive politics and an anti RKBA agenda. That is not the case with WB. My wife is one of those church-group moms, taking all the local teens to WB after church and various events. If she were to call me stating that Rambo was present with a long gun, that WB would then be off the list of places to meet in the future. Given this company's stance in our local community, they should not be painted with the Starbucks brush. They are simply responding to thier customers requests.

I doubt Any of you would have to dig all that deep to discover that this company is completely apolitical. This is NOT an anti RKBA shop, they are a burger shop, making policy based on customer feedback that they value. This is not a political-agenda driven organization in any way, and it is frustrating to see folks using this RESTATEMENT of a policy they have always had as evedence of an agenda that does not exist. (Given apparently in response to a question they received from a pro OC group that has now made a public spectical of their response to advance thier cause)

My frustration is over the Jesse Jackson / Sharpton-esque nature of such tactics.
 
Last edited:
Untuck your shirt for 20 minutes and enjoy your fries for crying out loud.
Click to expand...

This quote made my night.

As a supporter of 2A, I would still be conceal carrying as much as possible. Although I would love to OC--with a rifle at that--I understand that many people including my close family and friends are not comfortable with it.
 
The TTAG article on this was hilarious. Well, the comments, anyways. So many comments from northerners and Californians spilling sour grapes everywhere; "I wouldn't eat at that dump" "probably just get food poisoning" "can't be better than McDonalds if they'd do this" --just comical. Such resistance from self-proclaimed Texans (I, included) was basically absent :D

Do what you like; so long as they aren't the only option for me, an unavoidable obstacle I must yield to in order to live my life of open carry, no one's rights are being infringed. They are abutting, but one is not crushing over the other. Elastic collision. Choice is still present for both parties involved, so freedom is maintained. Always getting to do what you want isn't freedom; it's being in charge. Having options is freedom.

I may try carrying openly once it is lawful since I suspect it will be a non-issue in most locations (especially where I am). If noticed, and asked to leave, I will abide respectfully, provided they reciprocate that attitude. The instant they put a sign on their door, they will be dead to me. I swear on my morning Taquitos I will never buy another until they come down. Not because my actions are barred --like I said, I still have suitable alternatives-- but because posting signage is public advocacy and endorsement of an area of law that is at its core unjustified. No different than a Bloomberg "guns r bad" sticker.

TCB
 
A private business basing it's company policy on feedback from its employees and customers?! Good god, when will the tyranny end?!?

Seriously, this is pretty much an academic argument in TX as the vast majority of CHL holders will not be OC'ing and of the very few that do, they'll just use the drive through like 80% of WB's customers. This has been discussed ad nausem on several TX forums and only on here, which is overwhelmingly full of people who will never be impacted by this policy, is there a bunch of outrage.:rolleyes:
 
hso said:
Everyone wants to go straight to 11 on the dial on this. It isn't just the extreme end of the spectrum that is going to be impacted. It's the guy in a jacket with an OWB holstered S&W that comes in and wants to take his jacket off and enjoy a burger with his daugter's soccer team. Its the mom that wants to take off her sweater vest and have sundaes with her son's little league team that has an IWB Kahr under that. If some posturing boob comes in wanting to get a selfie of himself with his AK the management is more than within their rights to tell him to get off the property for making a scene and disturbing the guests, but they don't need to exclude folks like AKElroy or USAF_Vet to do it.
Click to expand...

A fine post, with the usual hso common sense. A example of the balance that many on this thread fail to recognize. No surprises there! :D
 
I have been mulling this over for several days now. Thinking it through. I eat at whataburger, more often than I really should. I also have a CHL.

I have read a lot of opinions in this thread about property rights and CEOs being pro-RKBA, insurance, and so on. What I haven't seen is a critical bit of context that maybe someone can provide.

Was this policy announced because of ongoing issues with open carry in Whataburger restaurants? Meaning are they having problems with people open carrying today and causing discomfort amongst their other patrons and employees?

Or was this announcement made in the context of the newly passed licences open carry law in Texas, and intended to proactively address a perceived future issue?

I don't have much to say if it is the first case. Well, except that I have never personally seen OC in a Whataburger. But to me it is like banning smoking (in areas that don't have laws). If I ran a restaurant I'd ban smoking for business reasons.

If it is the later case, though, all the talk about customer comfort and protecting their revenue falls to the floor and we are left with one word to describe the situation: prejudice. Wrap it up in as many "I have a ______ friend, heck I'm basically one of you" platitudes as you like, it is still prejudice.

So which is it? Saying they have banned open carry all along doesn't really help me because A) it wasn't a posted policy so I can't verify that claim, and B) the type of open carry (handgun) being discussed was illegal in their primary market and asking people to leave when they do something illegal is different than asking them to leave for something legal.

What would we say about this:

"There’s been a lot of talk the past couple weeks about Whawaburger’s religious dress policy, and I wanted to reach out to personally explain our position.

"Whawaburger supports customers’ First Amendment rights and we respect your group’s position, but we haven’t allowed the wearing of burqas in our restaurants for a long time (although we have not prohibited Muslims in western dress). It’s a business decision we made a long time ago and have stood by, and I think it’s important you know why.

"But first, as a representative of Whawaburger, I want you to know we proudly serve the religious rights community. I personally enjoy religious beliefs and also worship regularly, as do others at Whawaburger.

"From a business standpoint, though, we have to think about how Muslim behavior impacts our 34,000+ employees and millions of customers. We serve customers from all walks of life at more than 780 locations, 24 hours a day, in 10 states and we’re known for a family friendly atmosphere that customers have come to expect from us. We’re the gathering spot for Little League teams, church groups and high school kids after football games.

"We’ve had many customers and employees tell us they’re uncomfortable being around someone wearing traditional Muslim clothing, and as a business, we have to listen and value that feedback in the same way we value yours. We have a responsibility to make sure everyone who walks into our restaurants feels comfortable. For that reason, we don’t restrict Muslim beliefs but do ask customers not to wear traditional Muslim clothes. Or look like they are of Arabic descent - our customers are uncomfortable about that too.

"As a company serving customers with many different viewpoints, we’re sometimes caught in the middle on controversial issues like this one. We hope you and your members, along with our other friends in the religious rights community, understand our position and will continue to visit us. We appreciate your business. Thank you."

I'm not a Muslim but I would stop doing business with anyone who posted a statement like that because it is clearly a product of prejudice. I think Whataburger's statement on Open Carry may be the same.....
 
Last edited:
The first I heard of this issue was when I saw some social media comments regarding a rumored memo sent to Whataburger employees advising them how to handle incidents of open carry but politely asking customers to conceal. This memo supposedly went out within a day or two of passage of HB 910 allowing licensed open carry. Several people, perhaps some from OCT (Open Carry Texas) contacted Whataburger for confirmation. Within a few days, the CEO issued the public statement.

My take on it is that the open carry campaign revealed there are pro 2A people who strongly support OC and pro 2A people who disapprove of OC (for differing reasons) while strongly supporting concealed carry*. The WB CEO appears to fall in the latter group.

* this difference of opinion still exists and has been expressed in many threads on this board. I hope this tread doesn't get sidetracked.
 
Last edited:
Ya, they don't allow it in our Whata burger's either, which is why I don't eat at their restaurants. Wendy's also used to be posted, but in Arizona posting can be a bad direction for business's, as we have been an OC state for many, many years. Same thing with Cosco, and guess what, I don't do business with them or anyone else that is posted, Sam's Club gets my money instead.

GS
 
Was this policy announced because of ongoing issues with open carry in Whataburger restaurants? Meaning are they having problems with people open carrying today and causing discomfort amongst their other patrons and employees?
Click to expand...
Probably not--but it is possible. It's not currently legal to carry a handgun openly in TX and won't be until 1 January 2016. That said, it's possible that there were some incidents involving "activists" carrying long guns openly in Whataburger.
Or was this announcement made in the context of the newly passed licences open carry law in Texas, and intended to proactively address a perceived future issue?
Click to expand...
That would be my guess, however that doesn't preclude the decision being made on the basis of feedback from customers and/or staff. There were some groups carrying long guns openly in various TX restaurants, with the stated goal of trying to get open carry passed in TX. The primary practical effect was to get a number of TX restaurants to ban the open carry of long guns in their facilities. Maybe Whataburger thinks that they should make a statement now rather than wait until it develops into a problem--maybe it's the result of feedback from the "activist's" activities.
My take on it is that the open carry campaign revealed there are pro 2A people who strongly support OC and pro 2A people who disapprove of OC (for differing reasons) while strongly supporting concealed carry*. The WB CEO appears to fall in the latter group.
Click to expand...
Maybe he disapproves of OC, maybe he just thinks that it's the right decision from the standpoint of the company he runs. All we know is what he said in the company policy statement which may or may not reflect his personal views. In the same way a restaurant owner who smokes might ban smoking in his business.
 
Maybe he disapproves of OC, maybe he just thinks that it's the right decision from the standpoint of the company he runs. All we know is what he said in the company policy statement which may or may not reflect his personal views. In the same way a restaurant owner who smokes might ban smoking in his business.
Click to expand...

The lets say the corporate person of Whataburger disapproves of OC.
 
whats the big deal? theyre not banning ccw, just oc. I'd bet theyre doing that because of the buffoons like mentioned before that oc in a manner that expresses their lack of attention from mommy as a child than it does about rights.
 
The lets say the corporate person of Whataburger disapproves of OC.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. Of course it's entirely possible that "the corporate person" of Whataburger has no position on OC at all and merely feels that banning OC in their restaurants is a savvy business move. Businesses tend to do whatever they think will earn them the most money and avoid doing what will cost them money. If that weren't true, boycotts wouldn't work because there would be no point in with-holding money in an attempt to change a corporate policy.

We know WHAT WB did, but being able to prove the motive is difficult.
 
I praise the burger joint for taking a stand and presenting it in a logical manner, many of the advocates of OC appear to be trolling for incidents to occur that will bring them notiriety. What it will actually bring is confrontation with the less than law abidiging element who has now discovered a simple way to obtain firearms that would previously been unknown to them. Having a person who is properlly carrying concealed enter Whataburger bothers no one, no customer or employee and they are in a perfect position to respond to life threatening action by others. Carrying a pistol exposed would cause me little concern as i have carried as a LE officer, then as a retired person most of my life but my carry is deep concealment and never exhibited to anyone unless needed to thwart crime. Carrying a rifle slung over the shoulder would be another matter as our society is not accustomed to this exposure which may or may not be offensive on the part of the carrier. If confronted by the criminal element i doubt even one of the "look at me i have a gun" persons would be sufficiently trained to thwart an attack before loosing their weapon. When you have half a burger stuffed in your face maintaining control of the AK slung over your back would be the furtherest thing from your mind and loss of the weapon would be certain. The same would hold true for the pistol exposed to the world to telegraph the fact that you are manly and have the means to back up that image. "Speak softly but carry a big stick" holds true with CC individuals who have readied themselves against attack but are prudent enough to be a real surprise to the criminal element if messed with.
PS: i have carried concealed in Texas on many occasions including my only trip to Whataburger and although prepared for defensive action that stance was unknown to nor interfered with any one else in the restaurant. We all left full and happy.
 
Last edited:
A local hardware store (a new one, and one of two locally-owned ones in town) posted no firearms sign (not even CCW). Business dropped precipitously. By the time they took down the sign, the death spiral was beginning and now they are closed. The other shop, which has no sign, is still going.

The local Hardees does not allow open carry but does specifically allow concealed. Of course, one could slip their pistol in a laptop case etc and have instant access without a concealed license in such a place.

The truth of the matter is that too many people out there have been made afraid of the man open carrying.
 
The truth of the matter is that too many people out there have been made afraid of the man open carrying.
Click to expand...

And until those images of the mall ninjas carrying ARs and AKs into stores subsides, it will always be a factor ...............
 
DHJenkins said:
A private business basing it's company policy on feedback from its employees and customers?! Good god, when will the tyranny end?!?

Seriously, this is pretty much an academic argument in TX as the vast majority of CHL holders will not be OC'ing and of the very few that do, they'll just use the drive through like 80% of WB's customers. This has been discussed ad nausem on several TX forums and only on here, which is overwhelmingly full of people who will never be impacted by this policy, is there a bunch of outrage.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'll second that.

It's similar to the national & local media blowing out of proportion the handful of reactions to the Jade Helm exercise in Bastrop. From what I could tell, a couple dozen conspiracy nuts showed up at a local meeting & expressed their weird "concerns". Everybody else interviewed since then has scoffed at the stupidity of the "invasion" fears.

Of course the media & those Texas haters lapping it up around the country think we are a bunch of nutcase yokels.
 
Whataburger should post proper signage if they don't want OC in their restaurants. They should not put their employees in the awkward position of asking a customer to disarm, or leave.
 
How would a sign change that? Like it or not, cashiers are gate keepers, it is part of their job to refuse service when necessary. If corporate is concerned, perhaps they should reconsider their stance on open carry. This while thing will be a complete non-issue, and probably won't be enforced outside metro areas. More to avoid confrontation with antis than open carriers, I'd reckon.

TCB
 
barnbwt said:
How would a sign change that? Like it or not, cashiers are gate keepers, it is part of their job to refuse service when necessary. If corporate is concerned, perhaps they should reconsider their stance on open carry. This while thing will be a complete non-issue, and probably won't be enforced outside metro areas. More to avoid confrontation with antis than open carriers, I'd reckon.

TCB
Click to expand...
I doubt anybody would walk past proper signage to confront the teenager at the burger counter. Kind of pointless. I bet many open carry enthusiasts (OCT) will stop in Wataburger for the sole purpose of making a scene. We will see come January 1.
 
If a staff member disapproves of OC, even if the store approves, appreciate the special 'sauce' on your burger. :barf:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

O
  • Locked
  • Poll
One up on the Whataburger thread, WWYD?
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
Shaughn Leayme
S
M
  • Locked
Forget #$%* Whataburger, WHAT WOULD YOU DO HERE?
Replies
24
Views
1K
clubsoda22
C
F
  • Locked
Sometimes a company listens
Replies
7
Views
682
beatledog7
B
G
  • Locked
Be extra careful out there today...
Replies
2
Views
589
Trent
Trent
C
  • Locked
Levis Now Pro Actively Anti Gun
2 3
Replies
53
Views
9K
hso
hso
Back
Top