dc.fireman
Member
OK...Pics will follow, as soon as they are emailed to me.
The story: co-worker knows I reload, he mentions that he bought some 'sniper reloads' at a gun show a year or two back from a reloader with a table. He gets home, and only 20 of the 200 rounds will chamber in his bolt gun. I ask him to bring them over, and we'll try and assess the problem. I picked up a mismatch set of .308 dies - I believe this is part of the problem, instead of the solution. First, I caliper all of the rounds which he knows will chamber in his rifle. The COL's vary - from 2.774 to 2.830. They are varying LC brass - from 1972-2004, with a few LC match cases thrown in here and there. The bullets are some type of 168gr. BTHP, maker unkown. I used the Lymans reference book, and it indicated a 2.775 COL for their 168gr. BTHP, and it's listed as a Sierra.
I then mic'ed out about 40-50 of the 'bad' rounds - same deal, except that all of the cases come in slightly long - around 2.830-2.832. My first instinct is to try and set the seater die to 2.775", and bump then down a few thousandths, to the arrived at length. I checked the cases for crimp - it was very light at best, and non-existent on most. When I mic'ed the cases with a bullet already seated in them (on the known rounds) they came in at 2.013- 2.018, The Lyman manual referenced 2.015 as a trim to length. So I figured at least something is looking our way. This is where the trouble begins.
When we tried to seat some of the rounds further in, some went in no problem, others began to crush the case, at the base of the neck, where the shoulder/bottleneck begins. It was then that I noticed a small set of concentric rings on the shoulders of some of the rounds. Some of the rounds were simply ruined by the re-seating attempt, others seated in fine, mostly to a depth of 2.778. Thats a first for me - ordinarily when I seat a seater die in the press, and set it for a given length, it seats to that length. These weren't compressing powder either. Still passes the 'baby rattle' test, and you can plainly hear powder shaking inside the case. So, after inspecting every single round, and finding sideways primers in some, and high primers in a few others, I begin to get the sneaking suspicion that this stuff isn't pulled down surplus ammo, but once fired stuff. I randomly selected a few of the ruined rounds from our seating disaster, and find 3 different types of powder - two extruded, one which visually resembles Varget, and one flattened ball powder, and one plain charcoal colored extruded powder. When my buddy got home today, he called me and advised that the rounds still won't chamber in the rifle, but the rounds which previously chambered, now chamber beautifully.
I'm at a loss for figuring this one out, but I do have some speculation -
The reloader used once fired mil brass, and some type of bullet which I can only assume was the same manufacturer for the entire lot. The resizing die wasn't properly set-up in the press, and it moved the shoulder further down the case, hence the concentric rings. When we attempted to reseat them to the proper depth, I was using the depth for a known bullet (Sierra) with one ogive profile, and the bullets were from a different maker, using a different ogive profile. This coupled with a weakened case from the shoulder movement, allowed the seater to crush the cases in some, but simply bumped it down in others, because the case wasn't properly supported inside the seating die, and the sheer mechanical leverage was enough to cause the softer brass to give way to mechanical leverage.
Am I on the right track here, or way off? Also, can these cases be salvaged, by removing the decapping rod from my die, and simply resizing them? I know it means pulling down about 160-170 rounds, but I really do want to fix these for him, and I really am curious as to what's wrong here. Not having anything chambered in 308, I couldn't offer up anything for him to try these out earlier before he went home.
The components again are:
LC mixed cases, probably once fired.
unknown primer, but looks to be large rifle, tight in the pocket, brass in color.
168gr. BTHP of unknown make
Powder of various types, and because of this, it will soon be fertilizer once pulled down.
Any suggestions?
-tc
The story: co-worker knows I reload, he mentions that he bought some 'sniper reloads' at a gun show a year or two back from a reloader with a table. He gets home, and only 20 of the 200 rounds will chamber in his bolt gun. I ask him to bring them over, and we'll try and assess the problem. I picked up a mismatch set of .308 dies - I believe this is part of the problem, instead of the solution. First, I caliper all of the rounds which he knows will chamber in his rifle. The COL's vary - from 2.774 to 2.830. They are varying LC brass - from 1972-2004, with a few LC match cases thrown in here and there. The bullets are some type of 168gr. BTHP, maker unkown. I used the Lymans reference book, and it indicated a 2.775 COL for their 168gr. BTHP, and it's listed as a Sierra.
I then mic'ed out about 40-50 of the 'bad' rounds - same deal, except that all of the cases come in slightly long - around 2.830-2.832. My first instinct is to try and set the seater die to 2.775", and bump then down a few thousandths, to the arrived at length. I checked the cases for crimp - it was very light at best, and non-existent on most. When I mic'ed the cases with a bullet already seated in them (on the known rounds) they came in at 2.013- 2.018, The Lyman manual referenced 2.015 as a trim to length. So I figured at least something is looking our way. This is where the trouble begins.
When we tried to seat some of the rounds further in, some went in no problem, others began to crush the case, at the base of the neck, where the shoulder/bottleneck begins. It was then that I noticed a small set of concentric rings on the shoulders of some of the rounds. Some of the rounds were simply ruined by the re-seating attempt, others seated in fine, mostly to a depth of 2.778. Thats a first for me - ordinarily when I seat a seater die in the press, and set it for a given length, it seats to that length. These weren't compressing powder either. Still passes the 'baby rattle' test, and you can plainly hear powder shaking inside the case. So, after inspecting every single round, and finding sideways primers in some, and high primers in a few others, I begin to get the sneaking suspicion that this stuff isn't pulled down surplus ammo, but once fired stuff. I randomly selected a few of the ruined rounds from our seating disaster, and find 3 different types of powder - two extruded, one which visually resembles Varget, and one flattened ball powder, and one plain charcoal colored extruded powder. When my buddy got home today, he called me and advised that the rounds still won't chamber in the rifle, but the rounds which previously chambered, now chamber beautifully.
I'm at a loss for figuring this one out, but I do have some speculation -
The reloader used once fired mil brass, and some type of bullet which I can only assume was the same manufacturer for the entire lot. The resizing die wasn't properly set-up in the press, and it moved the shoulder further down the case, hence the concentric rings. When we attempted to reseat them to the proper depth, I was using the depth for a known bullet (Sierra) with one ogive profile, and the bullets were from a different maker, using a different ogive profile. This coupled with a weakened case from the shoulder movement, allowed the seater to crush the cases in some, but simply bumped it down in others, because the case wasn't properly supported inside the seating die, and the sheer mechanical leverage was enough to cause the softer brass to give way to mechanical leverage.
Am I on the right track here, or way off? Also, can these cases be salvaged, by removing the decapping rod from my die, and simply resizing them? I know it means pulling down about 160-170 rounds, but I really do want to fix these for him, and I really am curious as to what's wrong here. Not having anything chambered in 308, I couldn't offer up anything for him to try these out earlier before he went home.
The components again are:
LC mixed cases, probably once fired.
unknown primer, but looks to be large rifle, tight in the pocket, brass in color.
168gr. BTHP of unknown make
Powder of various types, and because of this, it will soon be fertilizer once pulled down.
Any suggestions?
-tc
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