What's happening to Kimber quality?

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In my opinion I don't see a dang thing wrong with the Kimber slide or logo etching that I saw in the pictures posted.

Two things come to mind here:

1. There will always be a certain number of products within that same given group that are considered less than 'top shelf' whether it's home appliances, computers, home entertainment items, guns, etc.

That is the nature of our high tech 'hands off' and 'hit the market' manufacturing.

2. If you look for the finish of a Maseratti amongst Fords, Chevrolets, etc......it just won't be there.
 
Well, just as promised, I was laying awake thinking about those scratches from the safety on the frame of my Eclipse. How do I go about getting more clearance so they don't get worse?

Talk about a Pandora's box.
 
To play Devil's Advocate here...

The logo side doesn't look too bad in the posted pic.

The right side however... (spacing exagerated)

S T AINLESS II

K I MBER , YONKERS , NY U . S . A . <NY U.S.A. is on a downward slope>

The serial number is misaligned as well.


Is this nitpicking? Possibly. It's all a matter of taste.

Even the Colt critics out there should admit that no matter how gaudy or large they were the rollmarks and serial numbers were usually on straight.
S&W boycotters should admit that even if they don't like the laser engraving at least S&W did it straight, even on a radiused surface.
 
Okay, so I'm nitpicking about the markings. I guess it wouldn't bug you if all the badges on your car were hung crooked and/or upside down, either? If it had globs and runs and orange peel in the paint? After all, that's just cosmetic stuff...

Here's an older Kimber; still not perfect, but lots better:

attachment.php
 
Yep, Tamara - you hit it with those pictures.

Cosmetics are a BIG part of firearms to me. I have a Kimber Ultra Carry (?), marked "Custom Shop" on the other side of the slide. This gun was made in Q1 of 1998. The Kimber logo is crisp and the edges are clean. The lettering on the frame and serial number look crisp, as well. Granted, this gun is newer than Tamara's Clakamas Kimber, but the lettering is still better than the newer ones. (One thing about this one, though. Where it says "Ultra Carry" on the slide, the lower parts of the "Car" in "Carry" is not stamped/engraved/rolled as deeply as the rest. It's lighter. It bugs me.)

Now, I also have a couple of Kimbers made in Q3 of 1999. The Kimber logo on these are kind of rough around the edges of the lettering. The lettering and serial number on the frame is dot-matrix printing and just does not look as good.

Looks matter a lot to me.

Steve
 
I have a Stainless II as well and it looks similar to the one posted. The gun has been a great shooter so far (low round count). The logo looks fine to me but I agree the serial# and the Kimber Yonkers etching could look better. It really doesn't bother me that much and I can live with it but at the same time I agree that this is inexcusable considering the price that Kimbers go for.
 
Even the Colt critics out there should admit that no matter how gaudy or large they were the rollmarks and serial numbers were usually on straight.

Thats great, now if colt could get the slide to frame fit tight and have it stay that way.

If colt could stake on a front sight so it would not shoot loose.

If they could install an ejector so that the front leg didnt come loose resulting in the brass hitting you in the head.

Colt would be better than Kimber.

Of course I am only basing this on my three colts a '78 govt model, a '95 officers enhanced acp, and a '99 Gold cup.

:)


Tamara it would seem to me that if master dealers who buy a minimum of what $50,000 in guns from kimber (in an order IIRC), would complain and send all of the flawed guns back BEFORE they sell them to folks like me, then these problems would be corrected in short order ?????????????

So how many master dealers here have sent an order of guns back to kimber, or even complained?????????????

:) :uhoh:
 
My Kimber logos look fine to me too, and my Kimber is not a big buck model either.

mykimberprocarry4.jpg


Amazing how anti-Kimber threads get so big. Its almost as if those who don't own a Kimber wish they did so badly, that they fill the need to put down the entire company based on a couple nit picky issues. This could be done to justify lack of funds to purchase a Kimber, or to try to play-up there lesser guns.

BTW, I am not saying Kimbers are perfect. No guns are. If you find the perfect gun, post it here as I would love to see one.
 
Thats great, now if colt could get the slide to frame fit tight and have it stay that way.
The loosness of the Colt is what made hundreds of thousands of military one so danged reliable.
You make it too tight and the reliability drops. It was designed to be combat accurate to save your assets. It was not designed for target shooting.
If colt could stake on a front sight so it would not shoot loose.
I've nver had that happen.
If they could install an ejector so that the front leg didnt come loose resulting in the brass hitting you in the head.
I've never had that happen.

Of course I am just basing this on the doxen of so genuine Colt or USGI ones that I have personally owned since 1971.

Its almost as if those who don't own a Kimber wish they did so badly, that they fill the need to put down the entire company based on a couple nit picky issues. This could be done to justify lack of funds to purchase a Kimber, or to try to play-up there lesser guns.
It's almost as if those who bought an inferior product feel the need to put down all other products based on their poor choice. Maybe this is done to justify the excess money spent or the fact that they had to deal with Dennis over the lack of quality control.

I know people who love their Kimbers. I know people who hated the ones they had. No one will ever agree which is best. That's why there will always be more than one choice. What works for one may not work for another.

The 1911 pattern works great as it was designed for what it designed for. Anytime you modify something there is the possibility of disappointment.

Personally I can't understand people who get hammer bite. I have never gotten it with an as designed Government or Commander model. I have never seen it happen to anyone either. But there are those who do truely suffer from it. Those people are, however, in the minority. But because they are in the monority doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Neither does it make it the rule. Mil-Spec guns are as popular today as they have ever been.

If you were looking to buy a Mustang GT and if you found one at a dealer that had a cosmetic flaw that slipped past inspection you would negotiate a lower price from the dealer.
If you were buying a used gun with holster wear you'd expect to pay a lower price than if it was pristine.

If you want to pay too much money for a gun with poorly executed cosmetics so be it. It's your money. Spend it as you wish. I'll gladly spend my money on genuine Colts. Which should make you and Dennis happy since there will be plenty of Kimbers left on the shelves for you.

And if you ever need me to help you watch your six. Don't worry, I'll be the old bald guy with the $500 Colt that goes bang every dang time.
 
Its almost as if those who don't own a Kimber wish they did so badly, that they fill the need to put down the entire company based on a couple nit picky issues.

Interesting theory, if you overlook the fact that the people complaining about Kimber quality on this topic are often current or former satisfied Kimber owners (e.g. Tamara and myself).

:rolleyes:

It must be my jealousy of Kimber owners that prompted me to write a positive review of the pre-Series II Kimber I owned... what else could explain it? ;)

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/kimber.html

Of course, prejudicial language and ad hominem attacks are the classic response of somebody who has nothing worthwhile to say.
 
Lightsped,

Its almost as if those who don't own a Kimber wish they did so badly,

You caught me!

I'm so jealous of those who own new Series II Kimbers that I posted pics of my Clackamas-rollmarked Series I, my customized Delta Elite, and my Springfield Pro to assuage my inferiority complex over not being able to swing the bucks for a new Custom II... :uhoh:
 
Tamara is now the fox who can't reach the grapes?

:rolleyes:

I don't know about you guys, but when I buy a car I always stipulate that there are no dealership decals on the car. If they refuse to remove them, then I insist upon a 100 dollar a month reduction in the note. I tell them it's for the rent on the billboard space that I'm driving around in. I often remove all the logos on a car. But that is just me.
Crooked names on my guns... that would bug the heck out of me.
 
Thats great, now if colt could get the slide to frame fit tight and have it stay that way.

They are made to ordnance spec. Slide to frame tightness does not give you anymore than 5% of your accuracy, thats where barrel to slide fit comes in. My NRM Colt with its "loose" slide was more accuratre than the Kimber that my brother used to own.
 
In the beginning people complained about the "girly looking" Kimber on the slide, now they don't like the quality of her handwriting. What's a poor boy to do? :)

John
 
They are made to ordnance spec. Slide to frame tightness does not give you anymore than 5% of your accuracy, thats where barrel to slide fit comes in. My NRM Colt with its "loose" slide was more accuratre than the Kimber that my brother used to own.

I understand ordinance spec and that a looser gun is more reliable in theory.

The Gold cup is supposed to be a target gun not a combat piece.
Some folks who shoot bullseye like to use a frame mounted dot sight (not I though), a loose fit between the slide and frame make this impossible.

When I bought the Gold cup there was almost no play between the slide and frame, 4,000 rounds later there is a 1/8" side to side and up and down play. The barrel to slide and bushing are still solid though. What that probably means is that the original fit was acheived through peening of a small area of the frame rails, when that area wore a small amount the fit went back to the "ordinance" standard.

Amazingly my Kimber CC target was tight with no play the day I bought it in 1999 and many thousands of rounds later its still just as tight, and the kimber is 100% reliable as well.

Accuracy wise the kimber and the gold cup are about the same with a slight edge to the kimber. I have never put either in a ransom rest so it might just be me.:) did you and your brother test the two guns using match grade ammo in a ransom rest?????? That would be an interesting test.

Please remember that I like colts as well so I'm not really bashing them, but when you spend $800 on a gold cup you expect that the front sight will stay tight for more than 300 rounds.;) The problem with the Gold cup front and the eliason rear sight is one that every long term gold cup owner knows about, that is if they actually shoot their gun.

Now colt is making the new gold cups with a dovetailed front sight, and a dovetailed rear as well I wonder why???????
 
BluesBear,

Personally I can't understand people who get hammer bite. I have never gotten it with an as designed Government or Commander model. I have never seen it happen to anyone either. But there are those who do truely suffer from it. Those people are, however, in the minority.

A lot of that depends on how you shoot the gun. If you use a more traditional grip, you'd need to have some fairly meaty paws to get bit, but if you choke way up on the gun (like me), some type of beavertail is pretty much a necessity. :) (Additionally, I find it helps locate my hand properly on the pistol when drawing...)
 
MB, maybe you had a Monday gun. No we didn't use a rest, ammo used was Federal American Eagle, actually no slouch in the accuracy department. I understand what you are saying about spending $800 on a Colt. Consider this, my brother spent $1,000 on that Kimber and it wasn't totally reliable even after Kimbers required "breakin" and a trip back to the "Custom" shop and being returned with the problems "corrected". Maybe I would feel differently if Kimber treated their customers better when they need service, I would be willing to give them a chance.
 
So I'm still waiting to hear if any of the master dealers out there have sent a whole batch of guns back to Kimber to have the poor workmanship corrected???????

Realize than when a Joe Schmoe customer like me complains about one gun it is not going to have the impact that a master dealer can have by sending back a batch of 20 or 50 guns.

So master dealers have you talked to kimber.?????????????
 
Wow, this thread was nothing like what I expected. I'm on my 2nd 1911, my first was one of the original springfield's with government issue everything. It was a great gun, but over 5-7 years I ended up replacing the sights, trigger, recoil spring, spring guide, etc. Loved that gun. Should have never sold it.

Fast forward 12 years . . .I've been saving for 2 years and finally bought a Stainless Gold Match II . . . . .after reading everything I could find I was scared to death that it was gonna be a POS . . . . . Never thought that while shooting it, or cleaning it, or even picking it up at the dealer.

Now I've been reading this whole thread with magnifying glass in one hand and the .45 in the other . . . . :) :) I can see the dot matrix issue in the pictures, but mine doesn't look at all like that. Possibly it's a different assembly line or ?? . . .and as far as shooting it, I get a big grin on my face just thinking about it. The damn thing just makes me look good . . .

Oh well, interesting to read different people's opinions. I know when I had my FFL, way back when, I sent back any guns that my customers thought had cosmetic flaws until they were happy. All of my distributors did it no questions asked, but that was a long time ago and things may have changed.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
Master Blaster,

So master dealers have you talked to kimber.?????????????

A) I am not a Kimber Master Dealer; I work for a shop that is a Kimber Master Dealer. There is a difference. ;)

B) Only four or five of the latest batch of ten had cosmetic flaws bad enough to get on my nerves, and they probably wouldn't bug me if the guns were $100 cheaper and/or if Kimber didn't vigorously position itself as an elite, top-drawer manufacturer of first-rate, almost-custom 1911's. Would it make you feel any better if I turned this into an equal opportunity slam-fest by bemoaning the fact that Springfield appears to be constitutionally unable to deliver a 1911 that doesn't have three feet of extractor hanging out the rear of the slide?

C) The cosmetic flaws obviously don't bug too many other people; folks buy a brand name and a brochure, not a product. (Actual Conversation: "Can I help you, sir?"
"Yes, I'm looking for a holster for my Kimber Custom Stainless II."
"Our 1911 holsters are right over here."
"No, I have a Kimber."
:rolleyes: )

As long as folks buy 'em, they'll keep selling. ;)
(I'm going to go in to work tomorrow and chuckle with my gunsmith over the lamentable cosmetic flaws on the Gunsite Commander that came in for a new ejector last week. For $2000+, you'd think they could at least get the frickin' toolmarks off the frame... :uhoh: )
 
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Here is an example. Brand new gun. Never shot or holstered. Ipicked it up yesterday, Monday.

I get it home and found what looks like holster wear on just one side of the slide - muzzle end.
 

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