What's the Best Sighting System for an AR
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ny32182
Member
Something like an Aimpoint or Eotech, with buis.
TrapperReady
Member
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Personally, I'm a fan of the standard irons. Then again, they're what I trained with and what I use for highpower. I like the fact that they are sturdy and don't rely on a battery. I can use them with good effect out to any distance that I'd trust the 5.56mm round to perform.
DMK
Member
I'd stick with the iron sights also. The AR has really good peep sights. You don't have to worry about the optics breaking if you drop the rifle on the ground. Plus you have better peripheral vision with open sights that you do with optics(except for forward mount scouts and red dots).
ARperson
Member
I'd have to agree with TrapperReady. I prefer irons for a couple of reasons. My personal opinion is that you've got to be proficient with irons before "graduating" to an optics set-up. And, I think they're quicker to acquire the target with (especially if you have to work with that paralax (sp?) issue in some scopes) and the red dots have the aforementioned battery issue.
So, in this order:
1. irons
2. simple 3x9-type scope
3. red dot
There is one caveat. For personal pleasure and just plain fun, the red dots (I really like the EOTech) are great and move into the #2 spot on the list. But for long-term reliability (those batteries again) and field wear in a SHTF situation, I don't trust myself with them.
So, in this order:
1. irons
2. simple 3x9-type scope
3. red dot
There is one caveat. For personal pleasure and just plain fun, the red dots (I really like the EOTech) are great and move into the #2 spot on the list. But for long-term reliability (those batteries again) and field wear in a SHTF situation, I don't trust myself with them.
I really think red dots are the way to go for military and "SHTF" scenarios on the AR. If you'll notice, the military is moving quickly away from the fixed A2 carry handle, and on to flat top AR's with a BUIS and red dot optics powered by batteries. The guys coming back from the sand box all rave about the Aimpoint, which has up to 1000 hours of battery life, tough as nails, drop tested, etc. and the ARMS #40 flip sight.
I'm all for irons, and don't believe a military rifle should be without them, but I like the red dot because it's faster and more forgiving in a CQB environment than any irons, can be seen in low light, works with night vision, and just plain works. Why do I not care about batteries? Because with the AR, you can fix the sights to see through the optic (co-witness) so if the optic fails, gets smashed, batteries do die, etc... then you just use your iron sights THROUGH the glass. You don't even change your cheek weld. There's just no negative to it as long as you have the Back Up Iron Sights (BUIS) that can be used even with the optic in place as long as you PRACTICE with your irons too.
I've owned the ARMS #40, and personally, since I'm just a range monkey, I like the "chopped" carry handle better. I can still move my elevation wheel up or down for those 500 yard sillouettes, and I don't have to flip it up or down ever. It's always right there. With the #40, you don't get elevation and you're stuck with what you sighted in at which in my case is the "Improved Battlesight Zero" of 50/200 yards.
Now if I were doing up an AR that was for longer range work, I'd want the brand new ARMS #40 (L maybe?) that's lower profile than the original to fit under the scopes on the SPR rifles, and I'd want a PRI flip front sight.
BUT a preference is just that, and if you LIKE irons better, then by all means, use them. I just personally like the red-dots, and most newer shooters who weren't trained on the irons only seem to like them better too.
I'm all for irons, and don't believe a military rifle should be without them, but I like the red dot because it's faster and more forgiving in a CQB environment than any irons, can be seen in low light, works with night vision, and just plain works. Why do I not care about batteries? Because with the AR, you can fix the sights to see through the optic (co-witness) so if the optic fails, gets smashed, batteries do die, etc... then you just use your iron sights THROUGH the glass. You don't even change your cheek weld. There's just no negative to it as long as you have the Back Up Iron Sights (BUIS) that can be used even with the optic in place as long as you PRACTICE with your irons too.
I've owned the ARMS #40, and personally, since I'm just a range monkey, I like the "chopped" carry handle better. I can still move my elevation wheel up or down for those 500 yard sillouettes, and I don't have to flip it up or down ever. It's always right there. With the #40, you don't get elevation and you're stuck with what you sighted in at which in my case is the "Improved Battlesight Zero" of 50/200 yards.
Now if I were doing up an AR that was for longer range work, I'd want the brand new ARMS #40 (L maybe?) that's lower profile than the original to fit under the scopes on the SPR rifles, and I'd want a PRI flip front sight.
BUT a preference is just that, and if you LIKE irons better, then by all means, use them. I just personally like the red-dots, and most newer shooters who weren't trained on the irons only seem to like them better too.
Chipperman
Member
For <100 yards, EOTech
For >100 yards, Irons
For >100 yards, Irons
Andrew Wyatt
Member
ACOG 4x32, bar none.
cheygriz
member
ACOG, nothing else even comes close.
They're expensive as all hell, but the very best always is.
They're expensive as all hell, but the very best always is.
Combat Sighting System
Definitely the Aimpoint. Hands down.
First of all, there is no battery issue with red dot sights. It has been awhile since I figured out the battery life, but can safely say that if you left the sight on 24/7 the battery would last six months easily. If you turn it off when not in use, significantly longer. You can buy a battery cap that stores a spare battery - good for another six months or so. I shoot my AR/Aimpoint fairly often and have taken three, week long carbine classes with it (where I left the Aimpoint on all day for five days at a time, for a total of three weeks) over a period of about two years; I am still using the same battery. If the battery fails you simply use the iron sights which require absolutely nothing to change, you just look through the sights which co-witness the red-dot. Even if you don't have a rear sight flipped up, you use the tube of the optic with your front sight as a big ghost ring. If you need to remove the Aimpoint for some reason it is as simple as throwing two levers on an ARMS mount.
Iron Sights are useless in the dark. Red Dot works fine. If you can see the target, you can put the dot on it and fire an aimed shot.
There is no issue of being rugged. The Aimpoint has been used by the US military for a couple years with no problems significant enough to be common knowlege.
The dot size is fine for anything short of a formal bullseye match. I can consistantly hit a pepper popper at 400 meters with the dot.
For really precise shooting you can zero your weapon so that the very tip of the dot is POI. It is then just like shooting with iron sight front post. Place the desired POI right on the tip of the dot.
I have, and the Army has found that your first round hit percentage is signifcantly more accurate and signifcantly faster with the dot over the iron sights.
The red dot is compatable with other military accessories such as night vision gear.
After shooting both extensively on an AR I can honestly say that I see NO advantage to iron sights at all. The only reason I own a lot of ARs and only one Aimpoint is due to cost. I am going to buy a second one soon for my back up carbine.
One of my best friends has the Eotech sight and I personally don't like it at all. I have shot his carbines numerous times and feel I gave it a fair trial, but to me, it is a poor also ran to the Aimpoint.
Definitely the Aimpoint. Hands down.
First of all, there is no battery issue with red dot sights. It has been awhile since I figured out the battery life, but can safely say that if you left the sight on 24/7 the battery would last six months easily. If you turn it off when not in use, significantly longer. You can buy a battery cap that stores a spare battery - good for another six months or so. I shoot my AR/Aimpoint fairly often and have taken three, week long carbine classes with it (where I left the Aimpoint on all day for five days at a time, for a total of three weeks) over a period of about two years; I am still using the same battery. If the battery fails you simply use the iron sights which require absolutely nothing to change, you just look through the sights which co-witness the red-dot. Even if you don't have a rear sight flipped up, you use the tube of the optic with your front sight as a big ghost ring. If you need to remove the Aimpoint for some reason it is as simple as throwing two levers on an ARMS mount.
Iron Sights are useless in the dark. Red Dot works fine. If you can see the target, you can put the dot on it and fire an aimed shot.
There is no issue of being rugged. The Aimpoint has been used by the US military for a couple years with no problems significant enough to be common knowlege.
The dot size is fine for anything short of a formal bullseye match. I can consistantly hit a pepper popper at 400 meters with the dot.
For really precise shooting you can zero your weapon so that the very tip of the dot is POI. It is then just like shooting with iron sight front post. Place the desired POI right on the tip of the dot.
I have, and the Army has found that your first round hit percentage is signifcantly more accurate and signifcantly faster with the dot over the iron sights.
The red dot is compatable with other military accessories such as night vision gear.
After shooting both extensively on an AR I can honestly say that I see NO advantage to iron sights at all. The only reason I own a lot of ARs and only one Aimpoint is due to cost. I am going to buy a second one soon for my back up carbine.
One of my best friends has the Eotech sight and I personally don't like it at all. I have shot his carbines numerous times and feel I gave it a fair trial, but to me, it is a poor also ran to the Aimpoint.
Mr. Chitlin
Member
I'm with 444 100%. Aimpoint ML2, ARMS 22M68 mount and ARMS #40A BUIS.
Last edited:
fix
Member
Aimpoint with BIS.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
I personally don't understand why anybody would choose to deny themselves use of a modern optic. Several of the proponents of iron sights make it sound as if it is an either/or choice when it isn't. I can have a quality optic and still have backup iron sights that are immediately available (in the case of reflex-type red dots) or available in less than a second (magnified).
I've also yet to meet anyone who does not shoot better or faster with a good optic outside of Internet forums. With some of the real pros, the difference can be pretty small; but for most of us the difference is readily apparent to anybody with a PACT timer.
I run a TA11 ACOG, and even in a scenario where the glass is obscured or the sight breaks (and I somehow manage to survive something that killed the ACOG but not me), I only have to flip a throw lever and a catch and I have irons the same as everybody else. However, until that fabled 1% experience happens, I have a sighting system that lets me make hits more accurately, more quickly and allows me better target ID and discrimination than irons alone. It also uses no batteries and is tough as nails.
However, given the real-world ranges that most rifle fights happen at and the speed and advantages of the Aimpoint in the under 100yd environment where those fights happen, I would probably go with that sight for the majority of infantry since I can buy about 2 Aimpoints and mounts to every ACOG. As a civilian, you'd be even more likely to see closer ranges where the Aimpoint has the edge. Also the Aimpoint has the edge in low-light use AND allows immediate transition to iron sights through the optic. So as much as I love my ACOG, I have to say Aimpoint Comp M2 (10,000 hours of battery life).
I've also yet to meet anyone who does not shoot better or faster with a good optic outside of Internet forums. With some of the real pros, the difference can be pretty small; but for most of us the difference is readily apparent to anybody with a PACT timer.
I run a TA11 ACOG, and even in a scenario where the glass is obscured or the sight breaks (and I somehow manage to survive something that killed the ACOG but not me), I only have to flip a throw lever and a catch and I have irons the same as everybody else. However, until that fabled 1% experience happens, I have a sighting system that lets me make hits more accurately, more quickly and allows me better target ID and discrimination than irons alone. It also uses no batteries and is tough as nails.
However, given the real-world ranges that most rifle fights happen at and the speed and advantages of the Aimpoint in the under 100yd environment where those fights happen, I would probably go with that sight for the majority of infantry since I can buy about 2 Aimpoints and mounts to every ACOG. As a civilian, you'd be even more likely to see closer ranges where the Aimpoint has the edge. Also the Aimpoint has the edge in low-light use AND allows immediate transition to iron sights through the optic. So as much as I love my ACOG, I have to say Aimpoint Comp M2 (10,000 hours of battery life).
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