What's up with P7 prices?

Mike OTDP

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I was pricing HK P7s on GB, and the prices have gone insane. $3K or more for a police surplus PSP? $4K for a P7M8? I don't even want to think of what my factory .22 P7K3 would fetch.

But why? Yes, they are metal guns (meaning prices are over $1K). Unusual action. Flat. Well-made. But when I can trade one dead even for a brand new Pardini SP or Feinwerkbau AW-93, something is going on that I really don't understand.
 
I think it is because I regret not buying a used German Police P7 when they were $500.

So naturally, the price is now in the thousands.

I have a feeling that some evil force is controlling the world and manipulating prices to make me more miserable.

It is a could be.
 
A good college friend has a P7M10 with all manuals, receipts, original box, and carbon cleaning tool thing.
A bit of a OCD type…he keeps a journal with date, number of rounds fired, and cumulative round count.
It is a darn nice handgun with remarkable technology that was WAY ahead of its time.
 
Steyr AUG and MP5s are already there, of course.:)

AUG's have actually been trending generally downwards a bit. They're pretty consistently on sale for around $1600.

For the P7 - realistically it's an out of production collectible gun that is high sought after. In general I'd expect it to continue going up. It's on my short list of old-school guns I'd like to get (along with a Walther P5, a Walther P88, an H&K P9S, a Benelli B76, SIG P210 and a Steyr GB), though as they continue to creep up in price each acquisition is less and less likely.

Moral of the story: if you like something, buy it BEFORE it goes out of production :).
 
I think it is because I regret not buying a used German Police P7 when they were $500.

If that's the case, then it's a Conspiracy....

I remember looking at them in the case some years ago... but the idea of paying $500-600 for a demilled Police 9mm was insane to me at the time, even though I'd always wanted one since BDH (Before Die Hard.) I wasn't in the 9mm business back then, having given up on it some years prior when I gave away my HiPower. I do regret not picking one up.

Aren't the P7's the same as the BrenTen? ...magazines are about as valuable as the pistol itself?
 
Seems like all the things that werent really all that popular back in the 80's and 90's are gold these days.

The only guns I really ever made any money on when selling them were my HK's, rifles and handguns. And the money made was VERY good! Should have held on to them a bit longer.

I bought my P7M13 new, when they first came out in the mid 80's for $450. Spare mags were $25. Ended up selling later on and doubled my money then. Mags were going for about $125 then too.
 
Had one. Bought around 2009 for $650. Shot the heck out of it but became worried about breakage and getting it repaired so I sold it. I don’t own any guns I am unwilling to shoot. Got $900 only 2 yrs later.

No regrets. It was an awesome pistol that was easy for me to shoot well. I was glad I was able to own and enjoy it.
 
I was pricing HK P7s on GB, and the prices have gone insane. $3K or more for a police surplus PSP? $4K for a P7M8? I don't even want to think of what my factory .22 P7K3 would fetch.

But why? Yes, they are metal guns (meaning prices are over $1K). Unusual action. Flat. Well-made. But when I can trade one dead even for a brand new Pardini SP or Feinwerkbau AW-93, something is going on that I really don't understand.
Unique, discontinued, distinctive, movie association, ...
 
If I had known more about the locking system at the time P7 were on sale, it might have been enough to push me to buy one.

Qcq24KL.jpg

All I could see in the ads were 9mm and squeeze cocking. However the locking mechanism is fascinating: a gas delay blowback mechanism



Which works by gas lubrication.


z2Qej31.jpg


Gas lubrication contradicts the long standing Army contention that case lubrication dangerously and unpredictably raises combustion and case thrust. This belief is based on a 100 + year old coverup of why low number M1903’s were blowing up on the firing line. P.O Ackley later built on the Army coverup by claiming his Ackley Improved cases “reduced bolt” and therefore allowed the use of insanely high pressure rounds. All of this is nonsense. The need for case lubrication in the P7 pistol shows there is something off with these belief systems, but the funny thing is, humans will accept contradictory ideas in order to remain part of the group think. Ideally, case to chamber friction as close to zero as possible is ideal for all mechanisms for reliable feed and extraction.

And then the P7 uses combustion gases to prevent the slide from opening.

From Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_P7

P7_Gas-DelayBBack.png

The P7 is a semi-automatic blowback-operated firearm. It features a unique gas-delayed blowback system modeled on the Swiss Pistole 47 W+F (Waffenfabrik Bern) prototype pistol[5] (and ultimately on the Barnitzke system first used in the Volkssturmgewehr 1-5),[6] which used gas pressures from the ignited cartridge and fed them through a small port in the barrel (in front of the chamber) to retard the rearward motion of the slide. This is accomplished by means of a piston contained inside a cylinder located under the barrel that opposes the rearward motion of the slide until the gas pressure has declined—after the bullet has left the barrel—hence allowing the slide to end its rearward motion, opening the breech and ejecting the empty cartridge case.[7]


The chamber has 18 flutes[8] that aid in the extraction process by allowing combustion gases to flow between the fired case and the chamber walls, preventing the case from "sticking" to the chamber walls. The drawback of this system is that the breech "opens" slightly prematurely to allow the slide to initiate its rearward motion. The high temperature gases cycling through a tube located below the chamber area and above the trigger made the early versions of this pistol uncomfortable, according to some, to shoot after the content of two magazines were fired due to heating. The advantages of this system are a simpler manufacturing process due to the absence of a locking system and a high mechanical accuracy due to the barrel being fixed in the frame; the barrel does not execute any sort of lateral or vertical movement during the operating cycle as with the Browning cam-action systems common to many other locked breech pistols.[9]

I have been able to shoot several P7's. The slide moves faster than human perception. All I saw was the case in the air, but I never was able to observe slide movement because it moves so fast. The P7's I handled were well built and obviously very expensive to make. I am sure the expense of manufacture was one reason it went out of production.

The squeeze cocking mechanism I did not like and I think it may have been the greatest reason the pistol disappeared from LEO use. In theory the user squeezes the front strap then pulls the trigger. People can easily get simple sequences out of order when under stress and I am very sure that a stressed LEO got the sequence out of order. Pulling the trigger and then squeezing the strap will result in the striker falling. It is very probable that some LEO, meaning only to squeeze the front strap in a potentially life threatening situation, pulled the trigger, and then squeezed the front strap shooting someone who did not need to be dead at the time. No doubt there are sealed court records that we will never see, where a settlement was made on a negligent shooting. Let us not be judgemental to someone's confusion under extreme stress as everyone has gotten some operational sequence out of order, or pressed the wrong button on the remote.


BNLKfPf.jpg

I remember the 1980's Audi 5000 lawsuits on "sudden acceleration". Drivers claimed they were experts, knew the difference between a brake pedal and gas pedal, and sued Audi claiming the car was prone to sudden acceleration. I saw several "News Programs" on liberal networks supporting the victims claims. It turns out, sometimes drivers confuse the difference between the brake and gas pedal, and that lead to automobile companies installing black boxes in vehicles to protect themselves in lawsuits. Analysis of the black boxes positively show time and again that the driver was pressing the accelerator to the floor, and not the brake. I recall hearing of recent crashes that made the National News about killer cars that accelerated out of control, that once the black box was removed and analyzed, turns out the crash was all due to driver confusion about the brake or accelerator.
 
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I think it is because I regret not buying a used German Police P7 when they were $500.

So naturally, the price is now in the thousands.

I have a feeling that some evil force is controlling the world and manipulating prices to make me more miserable.

It is a could be.

I bought one of the C-grade surplus P7s when they were available and sold it a year later for the same $500.

I HAVE REGRETS.
 
If HK were to reintroduce the P7 and price them at $1500 or less, I (and likely others) would be thrilled. SIG did it with the P210 pistol.

I understand it’s likely a pipe dream and that HK probably has a far great profit margin on their polymer guns. Perhaps Brownells can work with HK to manufacture a P7 “retrograde” clone or something.
 
If HK were to reintroduce the P7 and price them at $1500 or less, I (and likely others) would be thrilled. SIG did it with the P210 pistol.

I understand it’s likely a pipe dream and that HK probably has a far great profit margin on their polymer guns. Perhaps Brownells can work with HK to manufacture a P7 “retrograde” clone or something.

Naaaa... they just need to let CZ or Tisas have the plans...
 
They are an intriguing piece. Suspect that Glock is among the things that put the squeeze cocker out of business; simpler, cheaper, and a trigger that was the same all the time.
The gas system is ingenious; surprised no one but Walther (CCP; awful name for a capitalist gun... :( ), and their rep is less than sterling.
Moon
ETA- Just read Charlie 98's post, and think he is on to something. Bet the Turks could make a great likeness, for less than crazy money.
M
 
AUG's have actually been trending generally downwards a bit. They're pretty consistently on sale for around $1600.

For the P7 - realistically it's an out of production collectible gun that is high sought after. In general I'd expect it to continue going up. It's on my short list of old-school guns I'd like to get (along with a Walther P5, a Walther P88, an H&K P9S, a Benelli B76, SIG P210 and a Steyr GB), though as they continue to creep up in price each acquisition is less and less likely.

Moral of the story: if you like something, buy it BEFORE it goes out of production :).
I failed to pull the trigger on a $1,500 Coonan .357 auto several years ago. I got impatient and took the money I was saving up (I had $400) and bought a .44 Spl. GP 100. My “ next gun” would be a Coonan.

A few months later Coonan, Inc. folded.

The Coonans are now pushing $3,500 NIB with $300 magazines. :(

Buy now, or forever have a void in your collection.

Stay safe.
 
I once drank the P7 Kool-Aide. Lusted for one for many years. Then I finally had occasion to shoot several magazines through one, courtesy of a good friend.

Yeah, they're different, kind of neat, and have a certain cachet. I ended up deciding that I'd rather own a USP if I was to have any HK pistols... and I was issued the USP for a few years and realized that I loathed it. Settled for SIG's P-series pistols.

Rather the same as having desired a Corvette for about thirty years or so, until I finally had occasion to actually drive one. Settled for an Audi and a Chevy pickup.
 
I kick myself for not buying a really nice nickeled one back about '09 for $800 with 3 mags. It's one of only a couple of guns I still want to add to my collection, and probably the one I won't ever get.
 
The 80’s and 90’s kids have money now and got all nostalgic for the stuff of their childhoods. When I was younger it was 60’s muscle cars that suddenly started bringing top dollar, now is 90’s Japanese cars. A stock 1994 Toyota Supra now fetches $150,000.
 
I'm feeling pretty good about my PSP with 4-digit serial number. It's not in pristine shape but I did ok at $700 IIRC. It's not going anywhere as long as I'm around. I do need to drag it out for updated pics though - the wood grips broke not long after this picture was taken (they were purchased by me). It now has stock grips AND a spare gas piston due to idiocy on my part involving bare lead bullets (they clog the gas system as it turns out). DSCF1296.JPG
 
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