what's with different powders for 180 FMJ and 180 XTP in Lee manual?

[mingansr]

i'm so confused. my buddy has a hornady book, and they have 3 different jacketed XTP in 180 grains, with the same powders and charges for all of them.

the Lee manual has 180 jacketed bullets, with 7 to 8 different powder configs. then there's 180 jacketed XTP bullets, with about 20 different and popular powders. not one powder is found to be used for both bullets. what gives? i ended up buying vihtouri-whatever 3n37 powder for my 180 jacketed bullets (Precision Delta) only cuz it can be used with jacketed 165 gr. which i'm going to switch to. that powder cost me 10 more than the 'normal' array of powders that Lee listed for the 180 XTPs. that's 10 more out of my IRA!

please help me on this folks

 

[snuffy]

lee does NOT develop loads, they simply compile loads from other manuals, then print them in their manual. What you saw was loads from two different manuals, if you have one of those manuals, you could see it's a direct copy.

Doesn't the vit powder come in 20 oz. bottles? Seems I remember something like that. I can't get it locally, so I've never tried any.

 

[rcmodel]

3n37 powder for my 180 jacketed bullets only cuz it can be used with jacketed 165 gr.
that powder cost me 10 more than the 'normal' array of powders

Somebody really saw you coming!!

Any common powder that can be used with .40 S&W 180's and also be used with 165's.

rc

 

[1SOW]

snuffy:

Doesn't the vit powder come in 20 oz. bottles? Seems I remember something like that. I can't get it locally, so I've never tried any.

Not that I've ever seen locally or on-line.
1# and 4# 'when' it's in stock.

OOOPS, I was thinking n320, sorry.
I know a GM limited class shooter, that really likes n320 under a 165gr 40 cal at a 170-ish PF/ 1030 FPS.

 

[mingansr]

snuffy, my 3n37 is 1 lb.

rcmodel, my respected friend out here, that wasn't my question. Lee lists a "180 gr. jacketed bullet" and "180 gr. XTP" separately. xtp's are also jacketed bullets. so why TOTALLY different powder choices for the two? i don't get it. Hornady's manual lists 180 XTP's in three different bullets, and no matter if FMJ (discontinued) or the #40040 HP-XTP or the #40042B HAP (whatever that is!), these different types of bullets all are given with the same powders and loads in their manual. so, why can't the "180 gr. jacketed bullet" use the same powders? i can't afford xtp's, and Precision Delta makes a nice bullet as i can see. still very confused. in my mind, a 180 jacketed bullet, as opposed to plated, or lead, should be able to use all the powders available to 180 gr. bullets. what does the Brand Name XTP have to do with it? am i stating my question clear enough, guys??

you're a pro, rcmodel, and i know it. help:banghead:

 

[murf]

the xtp bullet has a longer bearing surface and requires a different powder charge.

try calling precision delta and see what they say, or use a speer or sierra manual for another reference.

murf

 

[snuffy]

HAP, stands for Hornady Action Pistol. It is the XTP bullet WITHOUT the internal jacket skiving that makes the XTP expand. It's a lower cost bullet because they can skip that step in production.

The answer to your question is; you CAN use any of the powders listed in the lee info, AS LONG AS YOU START AT MINIMUM AND WORK UP. This allows you to watch for pressure signs to account for different hardness of the lead core, and longer jacket. AND the same weight bullet.

Same rule goes for if you don't have the exact primer used in their load development, start low and work up.

Powder and bullet manufactures have no way of knowing what gun you're going to be using their stuff in. So they give loads to accommodate most of them. A 44 bullet could be used in a rifle, semi-auto gas operated pistol, revolver, or single shot.

 

[janobles14]

i think what you are looking for is the fact that xtp and gold dots have a larger cavity. this means that the base is longer and takes up more case space. in order to get the most out of each load the companies print those that give you the best results. since jacketed bullets can take more powder vs the xtp they use different powders that will give equivilant velocities. but i have used the same powders before and the difference isnt that noticeable to me.