What's wrong w/Cross-Draw?

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Good and bad

X-draws are somewhat better in a vehicle, especially with a seatbelt/shoulder strap in place. High ride canted seemed to work well. The same rig isn't worth a da## if you get into a wrestling match. Bad guy got one of my x-partners 6" revolver while they were rolling around on the ground. Barrel snagged between shirt buttons and went off. His heart followed the bullet out the center of his back.
Rare occurrence I know but I quit carrying my 6" python in a cross draw. This all happened in the early 70's.
If somebody has the intent to get your weapon and use it against you and he does get his hands on you there is going to be trouble. I'd just as soon not let him grab the weapon and have it instantly in a firing position.
 
A cross-draw worn forward of the point of the hip is much easier to defend from a grab than one worn on the off-side hip, and if the defender stands in a "Jack Benny" pose while evaluating potential trouble, the hand can be on or near the weapon for a very fast draw. Front crossdraw also works well when seated in a car with deep bucket seats and/or a high seatbelt anchorage located over the on-side hip. I do not use crossdraw for a primary weapon because I carry on the hip in police uniform, for a straight conventional draw, and like to keep such things the same all the time. I will use a crossdraw when on long road trips, for an alternate weapon; ditto for the times I will be seated in a car for long periods while parked, such as on surveillance.
 
Cross-draw:barf:

What's wrong w/Cross-Draw?
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Everything, don' get me started:rolleyes:

The only time I ever use a cross draw is when I'm seated in my car. I move the gun to my left side always.

My biggest problems with cross draw is that if you carry mag pouches you have to carry them on you're weak side. In a tactical reload with the gun in my right hand I don't want to reach with my left hand to my right side to grab another mag.

Secondly I want to draw from the holster up the center-line of my body, not across my body from the opposite side. I want the muzzle pointed in the direction I want the bullet to go at all times, that way even if I don't have time to bring the gun all the way up to eye level I can still fire from the the hip if need be.

Thirdly if you are attacked physically and some reaches your gun its much easier for them to use it on you. If they have to turn it around it buys you a few moments. I've heard that's why law enforcement prefers not to use cross-draw.

In the end its really up to you how you want to carry. However I've never had a firearms instructor who has condoned using the cross-draw method other than when seated in your car.
 
Page 21: "The cross draw holster is an invitation to disaster. Its position is even more convenient to an opponent than to the wearer."
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True, but.

1. I'm on a motorcycle. What's the best holster position?

2. I'm in a car. Right hand drive. I'm right handed. What's the best holster position?
 
Cross draw has both strengths and weaknesses. To me the primary weakness is that the gun is almost perfectly positioned for an assailant that is facing you to draw your gun. The other weakness is that again (as stated) it is rather easy to cross yourself or others in the draw violating a primary gun safety rule.

However, being aware of the limitations there are situations where a Cross draw really shines. For example driving a car and riding an ATV or motorcycle. I also like cross draw when hunting because it does not interfere with my long gun.

BTW Mad Magyar it sure looks like your gun is cocked in the picture....have you already racked the slide or are you carrying in condition 1 or 2? I thought condition 3 was for you????
 
and if the defender stands in a "Jack Benny" pose while evaluating potential trouble,
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That brought a smile to my face. Also thinking about how many of our members haven't a clue to the "eternal 39 yr old"...

I thought condition 3 was for you????
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Charles, you have me convinced about 95%...I'm working on Cond. #1..:)
Charles, 3-slot Pancake Holster by Gould & Goodrich with retention strap removed..(I never liked straps....)
 
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Charles, you have me convinced about 95%...I'm working on Cond. #1..
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LOL....That was funny...

Mayar...One thing I have always appreciated about you is your ability to remain civil (even when faced with a sarcastic SA) and show your rationale and reason behind your decisions. We don't always agree, but I seriously respect that in you.

BTW what holster is that you are using?
 
from nwilliams :
I want the muzzle pointed in the direction I want the bullet to go at all times
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Just what are you doing putting a bullet into the ground or halfway between yourself and the BG? When I draw in the cross-draw position, my muzzle points just off my left foot and sweeps upward directly toward the BG.... just like I draw on my strong side.


from charles s :
To me the primary weakness is that the gun is almost perfectly positioned for an assailant that is facing you to draw your gun.
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You must have a sign pointing to your gun saying, I'm carrying & this is where it's at." I really can't fathom HOW an assailant would even guess that I had a gun much less where it was at!?!

Let's not just blurt out something that you've heard from some "expert"... really think for yourself and try to picture a REAL scenario. A BG knowing where and if you carry isn't a very real scenario.
 
Just takes a bit more practice is all. 4x4 or on one of my horses its nothing but crossdraw as strong side then just about eats my ribs up. After about 30-40 years you kind of get used to it.
 
You must have a sign pointing to your gun saying, I'm carrying & this is where it's at." I really can't fathom HOW an assailant would even guess that I had a gun much less where it was at!?!

Let's not just blurt out something that you've heard from some "expert"... really think for yourself and try to picture a REAL scenario. A BG knowing where and if you carry isn't a very real scenario.
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Oh...well OK if you you say so....Interesting reasoning. If someone cannot see your gun in a cross draw holster then it is not positioned so they can take it away. I am not sure I follow. Is that kind of like if the door is in the back of the house no one will walk in?

BTW....When I carry cross draw it is open carry. Every one can see it....they don't have to guess it is there, but then I guess you would not have thought of that. It is positioned for someone to take the gun away from you.

I am sure you have had a weapons retention class and was taught by a real expert what the strengths and weaknesses of holster are. I have taken a good day long weapons retention course (I highly recommend such a course to all who choose to carry for self defense) and am quite aware of the strengths and weakness of each style of carry. I would recommend you take one also.
 
Is that kind of like if the door is in the back of the house no one will walk in? - H

"Back door?" HUH?!?

BTW....When I carry cross draw it is open carry. Every one can see it....
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Well, that is great for you and in that situation, I believe that you are correct - WHEN YOUR GUN CAN BE SEEN. Please read the previous posts and you'll notice that that has been mentioned and agreed with.

In most states, you have to conceal your weapon and it's a crime in some to even accidently expose it to public view. Minnesota is not such a state but I'm not a LEO so I conceal 95% of the time. There are only two places that I carry open 1.) in the woods & 2.) sometimes in my house.

The original post asked "What's wrong with cross-draw carry." Many people have answered very thoughtfully and most acknowledge that "It depends on the individual and the situation". Unfortunately, there are a few who like the always and never words and I discount those to near zero value.

P.S. Charles S - That's great that you took all of those classes. So have I. I just haven't taken those that refuse to let me practice the cross-draw which is the only draw that works for ME. One drill instructor said it was due to the danger of anyone on my left so I asked to be positioned on the left side. That way there would be no one to my left. "Nope, I refuse to let anyone do x-draw in my class!" "If not the safety aspect then why?" "Because I just don't... That's why!" I switched to another class.
 
P.S. Charles S - That's great that you took all of those classes. So have I.
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I am glad you are a gun owner who carries and chooses to educate yourself....So many of us do not.

Then you truly do understand the strengths and weakness of Cross draw....as do I. I find it very useful for certain situations, even though I am aware of it's weaknesses. For me cross draw is a great option when carrying a long gun hunting, or carrying a pack in the woods.

I just haven't taken those that refuse to let me practice the cross-draw which is the only draw that works for ME. One drill instructor said it was due to the danger of anyone on my left so I asked to be positioned on the left side. That way there would be no one to my left. "Nope, I refuse to let anyone do x-draw in my class!" "If not the safety aspect then why?" "Because I just don't... That's why!" I switched to another class.
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I really hate that....to me it is ignorant to ignore someones needs and not teach them because their needs are different than yours. I do not choose craw draw for concealed carry, but I certainly understand if it works for you. I think it is a shame when instructors are so close minded. You are obviously aware of the shortcomings and have taken a weapons retention class to deal with that. Again, I respect that!
 
IMO cross draw works best for hunting while carrying a rifle or shotgun slung over the right shoulder or if you need to carry while driving a cab or truck but for daily walking CCW use it is not a good option.

Why increase the distance and amount of time and movements to access your CCW if you need it you need it fast and can not deflect or use your week hand as well if your strong hand is crossing your chest.
Also for daily CCW unless a secure holster is used a cross draw presents your pistol to an adversary in a way they can easier try to take your pistol from you.

Just my two cents.
 
A whole lot of 'modern technique' ...

... is nothing more than current fashion and fad.

For instance, no less an authority than Julian S. Hatcher, Major General, US Army once wrote words to the effect of

"... a holster that does not allow a full grip on the pistol and one's trigger finger on the trigger prior to removal from the holster is unsuitable for self-defense..."

Could you imagine the howling that would cause in 'modern' circles?

Someone cited the late Bill Jordan in a condemnation of cross draw holsters. Is anyone aware Bill Jordan's holster, built to his design and specifications left the trigger guard completely exposed while holstered?

'Modern' experts get the vapours merely seeing such a holster.

(Interestingly, covered trigger guard holsters seem to have about the same level of improper discharges as uncovered trigger guard holsters. The uncovered ones fire on the draw and the covered ones fire on the re-holster - go figure.)

Cross draw and shoulder rigs are both 'out of fashion'. Primarily due to the impression of 'safety' problems while drawing. In fact, drawing from a shoulder rig or cross draw or small of back holster does require a wide sweep of the muzzle across the landscape. However, I have noted in reality, there is no 'safe direction' nor any 'downrange direction'. The confusion of a shooting or near shooting situation tends to blur many details. I'd really like to hear a dissertation on the subject of 'downrange' in - for example - the North Hollywood bank robbery shootout.

Someone mentioned a crossdraw puts the gun closer to the subject. What is not noticed is when using a strong side holster and assuming a 'field interrogation' stance, one's holster and sidearm is now away from the primary suspect, but is now away from one's field of view and concentration. It is now open to anyone behind or to the side. I find having a gun open behind me is less desirable than one in my vision and attention sphere.

There are no single, permanent answers - at least not in the art of self-defense and gunfighting.
 
Re: Archie's post (#41) ...................

You have probably summed up best the way I feel. I'm almost 60 and have seen "the correct methodology" change several times over the years.

The .380 was great as a self defence weapon 'cause it could be with you 99% of the time in your pocket.
The 9mm was the cat's pajamas 'cause the .380 was too diminutive.
The ankle holster was the last word in conceal carry so you can tuck your shirt in.
The .45ACP is the only weapon to have 'cause anything smaller wouldn't stop a 95 lb weakling with the flu.
Now, the end-all of all guns - the 1911 is slowly but sysematically being replaced by new gun buyers with the likes of Glocks, XD-45's, P220's and numerous other defensive weapons. Why? Are they better? No. Are they more accurate? No. I think that it's because these newer style guns just fit some people better or they like the look better or who know's what reason. It all boils down to - "There is no one method, gun or philosophy for evryone.
Get lessons. Get opinions. Try everything that you can. Then make your decision. Use the best of all worlds because it fits YOU, not some expert.
 
Originally posted by MinnMooney: In most states, you have to conceal your weapon and it's a crime in some to even accidently expose it to public view. Minnesota is not such a state but I'm not a LEO so I conceal 95% of the time. There are only two places that I carry open 1.) in the woods & 2.) sometimes in my house.
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You have a source for the fact about open carry being illegal in the majority of states?

Anyways I dont do it as it is much easier for an assailant to grab your gun. If you like it go ahead and if you do not thats fine to.

I think that the majority of the ranges dont approve of it since you sweep yourself and possibly others when drawing.
 
From a biomechanics point of view, strong side allows the muzzle to be rotated onto the target sooner and then allows you to punch forward, firing the whole time if absolutely necessary. Shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line right?

Cross draw has a circular drawing motion and the muzzle doesn't come on target until the final moments of your presentation. Not only this but you must practice a bit more to compensate for inertia naturally wanting to continue the sweep.

OF course this pretty much assumes you're stance is generally Weaver or Isocolese and the target is in front of you. Cross draw may work better if your body remains bladed with the weak side presented to the target. This stance theoretically presents less of a target.

Also from my years in martial arts I found that circular strikes are easier to block than straight ones. For the same reason in boxing, you soften the target with jabs because they're faster and then follow with a hook or cross, not the other way around.

In any case nothing works best for everyone ans especially not without practice. My .02
 
Crossdraw worked for Hickock untill he got shot from behind! Yes, if you are carrying crossdraw your weapon might be more convenient to an adversary in front of you, but isn't the same true when you are carrying strong side and the adversary is behind you? I do carry crossdraw when driving in a pickup or car with a bench seat and find that the weapon is more accessible this way and quicker to bring into action.
 
I am not a cop so I don't do "interrogation stance". If I think I'm going to have to fight someone I naturally turn my left (weak) side towards them.
From that position (think boxers stance) the cross draw presents the muzzle in a direct line to the intended target as soon as it clears the holster. Think Doc Holliday in the final scenes of Tombstone.
This stance also presents a smaller target.
This stance also "protects" the strong side meaning less chance to have to switch hands due to injury.
It works for me.
 
I am not a cop so I don't do "interrogation stance". If I think I'm going to have to fight someone I naturally turn my left (weak) side towards them.
From that position (think boxers stance) the cross draw presents the muzzle in a direct line to the intended target as soon as it clears the holster. Think Doc Holliday in the final scenes of Tombstone.
This stance also presents a smaller target.
This stance also "protects" the strong side meaning less chance to have to switch hands due to injury.
It works for me.
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Wheeler, interesting assessment and stated very well.....I failed to mention in my earlier replies that many carriers to need to assess their holsters for fast retrieval regardless of your mode of carry...:)
 
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Mad Magyar says,
Wheeler, interesting assessment.....I failed to mention in my earlier replies that many carriers to need to assess their holsters for fast retrieval regardless of your mode of carry...
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Funny, I thought that is what you were demonstrating with your photograph.
Push off or block with the left, deliver a nasty blow with the right.
In that stance the butt of the firearm is no more accessable to an assailant than a traditional strong side carry and it can be protected by either hand or by bending over. I must add that I carry a bit farther forward than most, and certainly no where near my weak side hip.
Another advantage is the proximity to the weak side hand in case a weak side draw is neccessary. A weak side draw is awkward but, no where near as awkward as a weak side draw from a strong side holster.

YMMV

Wheeler44
 
From what I've read an advantage of the butt forward holster is that the weapon is available to either hand either with a cross draw or twist hand draw.
 
Well, I guess you guys who don't like cross draw also don't like using your seat belts in your car. Ever try to get your sidearm out when belted into your car seat?

Safety? I guess you guys who carry your gun on your "strong side" use a vertical holster, not canted? Ever notice the cant makes your gun point back to your rear as you draw it?

I guess you also never expect to have your "strong arm" injured. Try drawing your weapon with the "weak arm" sometime. Ever look at pictures of Wild Bill Hickok? Notice two guns cross draw? He was no dummy. He could draw either gun with either hand.
 
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