whats wrong with 10mm?
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DammitBoy
Member
Recoil? Hardly notice any in my paraordnance P16 10mm conversion.
ps - I picked up 500 rounds of 10mm at the last gun show I attended.
you can buy hornady 200 grain critical defense - 20 rounds for $24 - at Midway all day long...
ps - I picked up 500 rounds of 10mm at the last gun show I attended.
you can buy hornady 200 grain critical defense - 20 rounds for $24 - at Midway all day long...
dcarch
Member
Absolutely nothing, so long as you can find it, and you don't get the anemic FBI load. A group of guys around here shoot comp with 10mm's a lot, actually, so it's not as hard to find ammo as you might think.
Bananna bore
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The 10mm is the 44spl of the auto world. Less than the best-- until you start reloading for it. If you want to max it out, get a fully supported barrel. I have loaded my stock barrel to the 1500fps range with the 135 gr hp's with no trouble and am up to the multiple thousand round count. The 10 can handle "crack head bob to pretty large furry/teeth beasties. Wolf now has a long slide and longer barrel setup for max efforts!!!
Caliper_Mi
Member
Beg to differ on power levels. It is true that most manufacturers download 10mm to .40 levels, but that doesn't mean that is the best load. As defensive loads go, .40 isn't the strongest out there. The old standby .357 packs more punch than .40 and 10mm can be loaded to .357 levels (plus a bigger bullet). But, those loads are hard to come by...
For myself, I really like 10mm but have yet to jump on board. I've shot warm .44 mag loads and enjoyed it but prefer autoloaders which lead to my interest in the 10mm. Trouble is that most manufacturers just put a .40 load in a 10mm brass and I don't reload yet (never mind recovering brass). I have read that most 10mm's are undersprung (for reliable functioning on light 10mm loads) and if you want to shoot real 10mm, stiffer springs will keep the brass closer by.
Basically, 10mm is an awesome load that has alot of bad press form the 80's to overcome and deserves to make a much greater comeback than it has thus far. Right now though, my next pistol purchase really needs to be a .22 so I can shoot more for less, not a 10mm.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Bananna Bore, great summary: "The 10mm is the 44spl of the auto world. Less than the best-- until you start reloading for it."
Any one care to explain to some one that doesn't know much at all about reloading as to why a 10mm isn't a good caliber to start with? I plan to use the book loads to start with and keep them in the warm range nothing from the pits of hell yet. I will be using a single stage press, weighing out the powder by hand on a digital scale for each load, using starline brass, and probably hard cast semi-wad cutters.
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Nushif
Member
It is. Dunno what they're thinking. 8)
I started on 9mm and had no problems learning. Usually the folks recommending some ginormous round that's super easy to reload think you don't have the manual dexterity to not spill your stuff all over the place.
Others seem to think that pistol rounds are much harder to reload for some reason. I beg to differ on that one, too. Rifle rounds are way harder for me.
Overall reloading isn't rocket science by *any* means.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
I was getting sort of serious about getting the Glock 10mm awhile back---ammo was non-existant(locally) and looking at the manufacturors ballistics charts online-pretty much all the loadings were watered down from the full powered loads when it was in its heyday.
Seems a handloading proposition only if you want full power.
I passed on the whole idea..
Seems a handloading proposition only if you want full power.
I passed on the whole idea..
I'm sorry, but I simply don't agree with much of this post.
Some background: I have been a .40 guy for as long as I can remember, and a polymer fanboy. I broke from that and purchased a CBOB in 10mm a couple of years ago. The DW is more concealable, more manageable for followup shots, more accurate and more comfortable to shoot than my .40s. (Glock 27 and HK USPc)
The .40 does NOT do everything the 9mm and 10mm don't. The .40 has more muzzle flip, allowing for a more difficult follow up shot, has CONSIDERABLY less energy than the 10mm, all the while reducing capacity comparative to the 9mm. It is more powerful than a 9mm, and suffers from less overpenetration, and is easier to handle for most than the 10mm.
From a power perspective, the 10mm is more powerful than a .357 magnum and less than a .41 magnum.
* .357 Magnum: 676 ft·lbf (917 J) for 180 gr (12 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)[23]
* 10mm Auto: 750 ft·lbf (1,020 J) for 200 gr (13 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)[24]
* .41 Magnum: 938 ft·lbf (1,272 J) for 250 gr (16 g) @ 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)[25]
From a downloading the round standpoint, I completely disagree with the notion that 10mm needs to be downgraded to .40 power. True, at full loads, the 10mm is a stout round, and in FMJ format overpenetration can be an issue. However, Winchester Silver Tip defence loads are very manageable, accurate and offer an excellent balance of power vs recoil.
The 10mm is experiencing a renaissance of sorts as of late, and you can find manufacturers such as Remington, Winchester, Federal, Hornady, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap etc making loads for this. With the exception of Buffalo Bore, DT or (God forbid) Extreme Shock, the prices are fair.
Lastly, the 10mm round is NOT problematic to a semi auto frame...especially if that frame is all alloy. My DW comes standard with an 18lb spring, and should you wish to upgrade, you can do so.
The 10mm is an outstanding round, and my CBOB is by far the best platform I've ever used for a pistol. I can recommend it with ease.
Clark
Member
Per my experiments..
With hot handloads and conventional extraction the power hierarchy is:
1) 40sw
2) 10mm
3) 44 mag
4) 357 mag
But with hot handloads and not limiting the 357 mag and 44 mag to revolver like extraction, then the hierarchy is:
1) 44 mag
2) 357 mag
3) 40sw
4) 10mm
DammitBoy
Member
hgunhntr said:
This.
Once I dived in and bought my 10mm, I've had nothing but good luck finding ammo. Bass Pro Shop has it, Midway has it, Academy has it, Cabela's has it, etc., etc.
Clark
Member
1993 post by John Bercovitz on the threshold of 357 mag cases getting stuck
If I work up a load in 10mm or 40 sw with and unmodified pistol, above some high pressure threshold, the extractor will pull out the case with huge force making a gilded pattern on the brass.
If I work up a load for a 357 mag or a 44 mag in a revolver with a star extractor that pushes on 6 cases at once, and is powered by my finger tip, at some pressure not far above the SAAMI registered max average, the cases will be stuck, and need to be pounded out.
John and I collaborated on a effort in 2005 to prove the books wrong about the CZ52 vs the Tokarev.
wristtwister
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10MM rocks... I've got 4 different slide sets for my EAA Witness for different configurations of the gun in 10MM, Georgia Arms has 500 round boxes of ammo at the gun shows for it... so what's the problem?
Yes, during the ammo shortage, the rounds were in short supply... but so was everything else, and G/A was out of "fixin's" for a lot of other rounds as well. It's another bullet... nothing more... and it is a lot of fun to both shoot and play around with in combat scenarios. I bought 10MM's when .380's were practically non existant during the ammo scam, so I fail to see where all the angst about "finding ammo" for them comes from. I keep about 500 rounds in my drag up kit, along with a slide set for .45ACP and 500 rounds of that caliber. In a SHTF situation, there's 1000 rounds of defensive ammo for one pistol, and choices about which one to carry.
Love the gun... love the round... and pack it out as a SHTF solution... I just don't see the problem here.
WT
Yes, during the ammo shortage, the rounds were in short supply... but so was everything else, and G/A was out of "fixin's" for a lot of other rounds as well. It's another bullet... nothing more... and it is a lot of fun to both shoot and play around with in combat scenarios. I bought 10MM's when .380's were practically non existant during the ammo scam, so I fail to see where all the angst about "finding ammo" for them comes from. I keep about 500 rounds in my drag up kit, along with a slide set for .45ACP and 500 rounds of that caliber. In a SHTF situation, there's 1000 rounds of defensive ammo for one pistol, and choices about which one to carry.
Love the gun... love the round... and pack it out as a SHTF solution... I just don't see the problem here.
WT
Broken Anvil
Member
I picked up a S&W 1006 10mm on Gunbroker and it's a sweet shooter. The 10mm is a reloaders dream, you really need to reload to enjoy it's benifits. My Smith shoots full power loads with ease and still shoots the lightest loads. Yea, it's not a CC gun but did you really expect it to be? And I have no trouble finding ammo on the internet.....but again.....it's a reloaders round.
swinokur
Member
Seems lime some of the posts here are from people who don't own a 10mm and are repeating what the heard on the Internet
Ammo is plentiful and there is affordable ammo out there. You can buy very hot loads from any number of vendors. The idea that 10mm should be downloaded to 40 is utter bunk. I have G29Sf and am waiting on a Delta Elite. These guns have no problem shooting 10mm all day long without problem. Matter of fact Glock released the G20 prior to the G21. The gun was built from the ground up for the 10mm. There were some problems with the Colt slides on early Delta's but it has been fixed for a very long time.
If you're going to get a 10mm conversion barrel for your G21 you do NOT need to change ejectors. All the 45 ACP and 10mm Glocks use the same ejector. There have been some extractor issues with older Glocks but not the newer ones. I would not use it for carry under any circumstances.
The 10mm cartridge and pistol is one of the most flexible systems you can have. I can even shoot 45ACP by putting my G30 slide on it.
Ammo is plentiful and there is affordable ammo out there. You can buy very hot loads from any number of vendors. The idea that 10mm should be downloaded to 40 is utter bunk. I have G29Sf and am waiting on a Delta Elite. These guns have no problem shooting 10mm all day long without problem. Matter of fact Glock released the G20 prior to the G21. The gun was built from the ground up for the 10mm. There were some problems with the Colt slides on early Delta's but it has been fixed for a very long time.
If you're going to get a 10mm conversion barrel for your G21 you do NOT need to change ejectors. All the 45 ACP and 10mm Glocks use the same ejector. There have been some extractor issues with older Glocks but not the newer ones. I would not use it for carry under any circumstances.
The 10mm cartridge and pistol is one of the most flexible systems you can have. I can even shoot 45ACP by putting my G30 slide on it.
The_Shootist
Member
Ok
So would Buffalo Bore be the way to go, specifically in a G29 and specifically this: http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=24
I mean, in a 180 gr bullet the fps/fpe stats at the muzzle put it close to .357 territory. Not sure about the bullet tho - a Golden Sabre type round?
For urban CHL duty, it looks pretty good, especially using G20 mags (1 in the pistol, 1 as backup) for capacity/ease of grip, giving you 30 rds on tap. That should keep the zombies/goblins at bay at least until you could fight your way back to your WASR or whatever.
So would Buffalo Bore be the way to go, specifically in a G29 and specifically this: http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=24
I mean, in a 180 gr bullet the fps/fpe stats at the muzzle put it close to .357 territory. Not sure about the bullet tho - a Golden Sabre type round?
For urban CHL duty, it looks pretty good, especially using G20 mags (1 in the pistol, 1 as backup) for capacity/ease of grip, giving you 30 rds on tap. That should keep the zombies/goblins at bay at least until you could fight your way back to your WASR or whatever.
RobMoore
Member
This thread reminds me of someone asking why open wheel and sportscar racing is unpopular while NASCAR thrives. I can't explain it for 10mm or ALMS, but both are a damn shame.
swinokur
Member
Actually the original FBI spec and the S&W 1076 built for the FBI specifically DID NOT have the magazine safety. There was a stamped warning on the slide cautioning that the weapon WOULD fire even with no mag in it.
That is one way to identify the pistol as an FBI issued firearm.
If there is no warning stamped on the slide, it's not an FBI turn in
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