when did the 44c bp arms first come out

[midland man]

I notice that the 1851 colt only made originally in 36c so when did the 44 caliber first show up and in what models?? thanks!

 

[Jim Watson]

Edit for clarity.

The "Navy .44" is a figment of the imagination in post Civil War Centennial reproductions.
Period .44 c&b Colts were the various Dragoons from the Walker to the Third Model and the 1860 Army.

 

[Noz]

As Jim says, the first revolver Colt made in 44 was the Walker Colt.
I just learned that Colt did make 4 copies of the 1851 in .40 cal. Nobody like them so they were never put into production.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

I think in the 1960's or 70's they came out

 

[Old Fuff]

I just learned that Colt did make 4 copies of the 1851 in .40 cal. Nobody like I them so they were never put into production.

And I had the pleasure of handling and examining serial No. 1.

The reason it didn't go into production wasn't lack of popularity, but that Sam Colt didn't see a market, because he was about to introduce his new Army Model (1860) that was based on the earlier model 1851, about the same weight and size, but a .44 (true caliber .45). The 1860 was intended to replace the earlier series of Dragoons (a.k.a. "holster pistol" meaning saddle holster.)

 

[rodwha]

Is there enough meat on a reproduction cylinder to bore it to use cast 0.401" bullets (chambers of maybe 0.398")? It seems I've read of people doing so and sounds interesting.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The .44 Navys had brass frames and were made by the South because they weren't smart enough to make steel framed guns. General Lee had one I believe.

That is a joke, obviously, but something that quite a few people have been lead to believe from the marketing from some percussion revolver repro companies (Pietta etc.).

The first .44 caliber revolver was the Colt Walker. There never were such a thing as "confederate navies" or ".44 navies" or whatever you want to call them.

But, I hear they're on sale for $49.99 this weekend at Cabelas, and that is why they sell so many.

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, there were Confederate Navies, but they were .36 caliber, same as Colt.

The only CSA. 44s in Flayderman were from the Dance Brothers and maybe a very few Tucker, Sherrard and Co. Unless you count the Lemats which were .42 in the cylinder.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

But, I hear they're on sale for $49.99 this weekend at Cabelas, and that is why they sell so many.

Cooldill - You got me!

I HAD to look.

 

[Old Fuff]

Is there enough meat on a reproduction cylinder to bore it to use cast 0.401" bullets (chambers of maybe 0.398")? It seems I've read of people doing so and sounds interesting.

Chambers are the easy part. The real question is where are you going to get a barrel?

Frankly, since they've come out with everything else, I'm surprised the Italians haven't discovered the .40 Navy.

 

[rodwha]

A Bobby Hoyt liner is the one I'm aware of. I'm sure there are more options if one were to look.

 

[Tommygunn]

And I had the pleasure of handling and examining serial No. 1.

The reason it didn't go into production wasn't lack of popularity, but that Sam Colt didn't see a market, because he was about to introduce his new Army Model (1860) that was based on the earlier model 1851, about the same weight and size, but a .44 (true caliber .45). The 1860 was intended to replace the earlier series of Dragoons (a.k.a. "holster pistol" meaning saddle holster.)

Old Fuff, aside from the caliber of the weapon was there any differences between the #1 SN in .40 and a regular .36 caliber navy?
Us regular mortals are curious.

 

[Old Fuff]

A Bobby Hoyt liner is the one I'm aware of. I'm sure there are more options if one were to look.

I was waiting for that.

A liner is about the only way to go, and it would probably work. But the whole thing would likely end up being very expensive, with little to gain in a practical sense. You'd increase ball/bullet diameter roughly .025" (going from .375" to .400"). I don't see a practical advantage.

However if I was to change my mind I'd start with a .44 barrel, ream out the rifling, and line it to (whatever). I'd also likely pick a Remington New Navy replica for a platform.

But fun projects are just that - fun. So I wish you luck.

 

[rodwha]

I doubt I'd ever do that. Too many hobbies begging for my funding.

It is fun to ponder, and I've read of someone with a .40 or .41 cal pistol using a commercial mold for projectiles. I was more curious if it was possible.

Don't let me win the lottery as I may end up with a .40 cal Navy!

There's just something about the older model of barrels I like. And when it comes to the '62 Colt I'd choose the Police mostly because I like the fluted cylinder more. But I'd opt for a Navy barrel if I could, though I wouldn't bother with an additional barrel.

 

[kBob]

Jim,

Though they were not made in the South the Kerr used by the CSA was a ".44" and they likely outnumbered the Dance and TSC guns and for that matter most of the CSA made .36s......all together.

Even the Union bought some.

I am required at this time to mention how much I wish SOMEONE made Kerr replicas.

It sort of eerrkks me that given the small number of original Spiller and Burr revolvers that those were reproduced, (I under stand that production numbers on the replicas surpassed original production the first year) as well as the Rogers and Spencer and a couple of others that NO ONE has made Kerr replicas.

-kBob

 

[Panzerschwein]

Jim,

Though they were not made in the South the Kerr used by the CSA was a ".44" and they likely outnumbered the Dance and TSC guns and for that matter most of the CSA made .36s......all together.

Even the Union bought some.

I am required at this time to mention how much I wish SOMEONE made Kerr replicas.

It sort of eerrkks me that given the small number of original Spiller and Burr revolvers that those were reproduced, (I under stand that production numbers on the replicas surpassed original production the first year) as well as the Rogers and Spencer and a couple of others that NO ONE has made Kerr replicas.

-kBob

The Kerrs are neat guns, I'd like to see a replica as well.

They probably made the Spiller and Burr because it's brass frame and simple design is easier to make.

 

[Big Al Mass]

The first .44 caliber Colt revolver was the prototype built for Colt by the New York gunmaking and retail firm of Blunt & Syms. A replica of the gun was featured in the Spring 2013 issue of Guns of the Old West Magazine. It was constructed by Gary Rummell of R&A Historic Reproductions. The article mentioned that it was in limited production at the time and was priced at $2,995.00.

Below is a picture of the cover of the issue with the Blunt & Syms prototype replica highlighted in red.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I think in the 1960's or 70's they came out

Howdy

I bought my 44 caliber, brass framed 'Navy' in 1968. I was just a kid and did not know that such a thing never existed. It was marketed in Val Forgett's Service Arms catalog as the 'Army 60'. I think it cost $40 back then. Dunno if they were available before 1968 or not. If you look closely you can see the Uberti trademark on the frame.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I notice that the 1851 colt only made originally in 36c so when did the 44 caliber first show up and in what models?? thanks!

Colt Walker 1847, and the Dragoon models started along the same time frame. The Colt 1860 in 1860.

They advertise those brass frames that never were as Confederate revolvers (Remington and Colt style revolvers) and the advertising wording is just a blatant lie.

There actually was the Dance Brothers 44 caliber made for the Confederacy but it was not a gun metal frame. It had an iron frame and similar to an 1860 Colt with no recoil shields. Pietta makes a fairly accurate replica of one which I recommend if a person want's a 44 caliber Confederate pistol.