When do we use the 2nd Amendment

[Ed Ames]

Technically speaking, the 2nd is only used in court. Heller was a recent example of the 2nd being used. Everything else (including Jeffersonian posturing) is what happens when we can no longer use the 2nd (or the constitution in general) to secure and defend out rights.

The reason for the BoR is to make fightin' issues into arguin' issues.

 

[huntsman]

donate to organizations that fight to uphold the bill of rights, volunteer with a campaign, or run for office yourownself,

Sorry I have a strong distain for PAC's, lobbyists and the current attitude in Washington.

The system in Washington isn't functioning like the founding fathers intended so it needs to be overhauled with new leaders.

I'm a NRA member and support state Firearms organizations because I believe that's where it should be fought.

 

[zombieoutfitters]

This seems like a good time to post this. I read it CLOSELY for the first time not too long ago. Check out the underlined portion...

The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security....

IMHO...THAT is "when".

 

[Big Matt]

Yes we still have the ability to protest publicly, speak out at open political events, call, write, fax, and email your reps, bring lawsuits, donate to organizations that fight to uphold the bill of rights, volunteer with a campaign, or run for office our ownselves; however, what happens when our "reps" in Washington no longer seek to do what we ask them to do?

I email and snail mail my rep and two senators several times a year. What sort of response do I get? "Thank you for your concern on (insert topic here). However I am going to continue supporting (insert topic here) as I feel that I am better informed/suited/educated to make these sorts of decisions." That is when you actually get the courtesy of a response. It's as if they forget that they work for us. Then when a situation like Mass occurs and the voters throw the bum out, they still ignore the message.

 

[huntsman]

I email and snail mail my rep and two senators several times a year. What sort of response do I get? "Thank you for your concern on (insert topic here). However I am going to continue supporting (insert topic here) as I feel that I am better informed/suited/educated to make these sorts of decisions." That is when you actually get the courtesy of a response. It's as if they forget that they work for us. Then when a situation like Mass occurs and the voters throw the bum out, they still ignore the message.

The lobbyist voice is amplified by millions of dollars our voice is just a whisper.

 

[miamivicedade]

Illinois doesnt recognize the Second Amendment.

1) You have to pay and get approved to get a FOID.
2) There is no conceled carry allowed.

Any "May Issue" state does not recognize it either.

 

[mljdeckard]

Do we not use it every day?

The fact that we have been armed for 200 years has ensured by deterrence that violence was not necessary to preserve our rights.

 

[Shadow Man]

The Founders knew that armed rebellion was a serious thing, only to be attempted when all other forms of change had been exhausted. As I see it, the Second is there to protect the other Nine, and while I have always considered myself a man of action, it would take some serious injustices and transgressions of our rights to get me to join an open rebellion. In fact, without due cause, to attempt to do such a thing is treason...a crime still punishable by death, so not a matter to be taken lightly. As our country was formed upon three ideas, that of a Declaration of Independence, an Alliance with Foreign Powers, and a Confederation of Laws (Constitution), the Declaration is still very relevant and it states that our country gives us the undeniable right to change the government, but only after a certain set of criteria have been met. We are far from meeting those criteria, and I hope we never meet them...yet I cannot help but fear for my Country...

 

[BP44]

While I partially agree that we "use" the second Amendment every day I feel that it has been infringed upon. I also feel that it will continue to be infringed upon little by little, untill we will be forced to overthrow our government with single shot .22's and black powder rifles because they are the only ones that they allow us to have

If you take one link out of a dogs chain at a time every week, soon the dog will not be able to move,eat, or drink. The best part is that the dog never fights and is none the wiser untill it's to late.

 

[FROGO207]

Sheeesh Guys............Try using it as an education tool to prove why we need it to remain in effect and the true cost if we collectively loose it.:banghead:

 

[Shadow Man]

Frogo207

That would be explaining it, or teaching others about it, not actually using it. Unless I have horribly misunderstood the OP, he was acking when we actually put the Amendment into practice...which, in reality, is not fairly often.

 

[The Gunman]

There seems to be some confusion about what the 2a entitles one to do.
-LemmyCaution

And herein lies the ultimate root of tyranny, to make the citizens feel they have no privilege without it being enumerated by the government.

Our Constitution DOES NOT enumerate what the citizen can do, it restricts what the government is allowed to do. Remember way back to history class. The Constitution was written by a people who had been under the boot of tyranny for some time. They had a deep fear and hatred of all powerful government. The framers did not come together as a group of holier-than-thou rulers who gave permission to the lowly citizens of their new country. They came together as a group who knew the true evil of tyranny and chose to limit government to protect themselves as citizens of that new country.

I see more and more laws and bills written from a view that they are giving a privilege instead of restricting what one can be punished for. Here in Illinois we have a law that allows the government to prosecute one for carrying a firearm on your person, openly or concealed. If that law is repealed, we would then have carry. Instead, we push for a law that "allows" the citizen to pay for a permit or attend a class so that we may be given the privilege of bearing a firearm. It's like a kid being bribed to do something with a piece of candy. As long as that is the mindset, we are truly under the control of the government. If we want something we must dance to get the candy, and when we are needed to dance again we are threatened with withdraw of the candy privilege.

Many posts seem to indicate a belief that the Second Amendment is a privilege that allows for the overthrow of the government. The Second does not say,"A well regulated militia, being necessary to overthrow the government, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It simply restrains the government from disarming us. If we should ever come to the necessity of armed rebellion the Constitution and laws would be negated as that would be the very instruments we would be fighting.

So to answer the original post's question, every time I am not prosecuted for keeping a firearm in my home, target shooting, hunting, or God forbid using a firearm to defend my family I have exercised the Second Amendment.

 

[LemmyCaution]

So to answer the original post's question, every time I am not prosecuted for keeping a firearm in my home, target shooting, hunting, or God forbid using a firearm to defend my family I have exercised the Second Amendment.

Which is exactly the point I was making, but somehow I've become the poster boy for the 2a as a privilege, rather than I right, through your use of cherry picked quotation. You seem to be implying that I believe that the RKBA is an entitlement of the 2a. Nowhere did I make that assertion, or even imply it. Rather, like you, I was making exactly the same point you sarcastically make here:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to overthrow the government, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

In other words, the 2a does not entitle one to effect a coup d'état.

What gives?

Rebellion may someday become necessary, but like all rebellions, it will be an illegal act, and one would be a fool to look for justification from the corroded system one is attempting to supplant. If there is going to be rebellion, it will be of necessity, and will not need pretty words to excuse it.

 

[huntsman]

Another quote for those who don't seem to get it.

"We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts - not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.'' - Abraham Lincoln

 

[berettaprofessor]

The Second Ammendment protects the first, as long as you are free to complain, gather in groups to complain and pray however you wish about it, you don't need the 2A, YET.

Got to say I disagree, just a little, with this statement and others like it; the quote is okay as far as it goes, but those who might deprive us of rights know this very well. That's why attempts at disarmament will likely come before free speech is severely threatened. So to me, the statement by several here is correct, 2A doesn't give us the right to overthrow without threat of treason. In my mind, however, 2A is not the final supporter of the other nine, but the first line of alarm and the first defense.

In simpler words, "they" aren't going to control all the media first and then confiscate the guns. They'll get the guns first. Witness what's happening in Venezuela right now.

 

[Shadow Man]

Many posts seem to indicate a belief that the Second Amendment is a privilege that allows for the overthrow of the government.

I would have to respectfully disagree. Further reading into the ideals and principles of the Founders clearly states that an armed populous is a sure way to keep any government from becoming totalitarian and wrestling the ultimate authority from the people, where it Constitutionally resides.

I am not suggesting open rebellion because the people have grown dissatisfied with the Constitution and Declaration; rather, I am saying that the Second grants us the right to forcibly remove those in the seats of power should they not adhear to the Constitution. In fact, the Constitution not only grants us the right to do so, it also states that we have a duty to do so, should the need arise.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security....

I am NOT advocating such actions, merely pointing out that such a responsibility rests with the people, and can only be pursued as long as the Second stays intact and un-regulated. In fact, the United States recognizes two kinds of Militia: an Organized and Unorganized. The Organized Militia consists of State National Guard units, and the Naval Militia; the Unorganized consists of every male citizen from the age of 17 to 45 who is not a member of the military. These statutes exist to safeguard our country...we should not fail to make use of them, should the need ever arise. Once again, I am NOT advocating rebellion, simply pointing out that the ability is granted to us.

 

[eye5600]

As a practical matter, the right to vote is tops. Whenever you read about the "power of the NRA", you are reading about the voting power of NRA members and those who agree. The biggest brake on gun control is legislator's fear of pissing off 40% of the electorate.

The Bill of Rights has to be enforced by the courts, and the courts , especially the Supreme Court, has been reluctant to declare bills passed by Congress and signed by the President to be unconstitutional. The actions of Congress are presumed to reflect the wishes of the electorate. When the courts do stick their nose in, there is a lot of complaint about "legislating from the bench."

 

[Shadow Man]

the Supreme Court, has been reluctant to declare bills passed by Congress and signed by the President to be unconstitutional.

Isn't the job of the Supreme Court to decide whether laws and bills are Constitutional? If that is their job, and they are reluctant to do it, they should be replaced, as I see it.

 

[jakemccoy]

the Supreme Court, has been reluctant to declare bills passed by Congress and signed by the President to be unconstitutional

This document lists 158 Acts of Congress that the Supreme Court declared to be unconstitutional.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/pdf2002/046.pdf

The cases span from 1789 to 2002. (There may be more cases since 2002.) On average, that's about one Act per year declared to be unconstitutional, being that it appears the SCOTUS didn't start getting busy with their declarations until about 1860.

Further, keep in mind that those are only Acts of Congress in the document I linked. The SCOTUS also declares other important federal "doctrines" unconstitutional. Perhaps the most famous case of this happening is Brown v. The Board of Education, which overturned Plessy v. Ferguson. In Brown, the SCOTUS declared the federal doctrine of "separate but equal" to be unconstitutional.

 

[eye5600]

Isn't the job of the Supreme Court to decide whether laws and bills are Constitutional?

That's what they teach is civics class (if there is a civics class, but don't lets get started on that) but it's not in the Constitution. It's a power that the Supreme Court seized for itself in a case called Marbury vs. Madison.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison)

Yes, the SG has declared many laws unconstitutional, most recently parts of the campaign finance laws. But it treads rather gingerly in this area.

 

[Werewolf]

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Once a state turns to tyranny the security of what was previously a free state has been compromised. Thus the framers wrote the 2nd to insure that the government cannot infringe the right to keep and bear arms.

They failed it seems.

The problem then becomes definining the point at which a state has devolved into tyranny. That's the trip point. Get enough people to agree that the wire has been tripped and that's the time the 2nd comes into play.

Keep in mind though that if you lose you'll go down in history as a criminal. Win and you're a hero. You throws the dice and takes your chances.

 

[inherentical]

When you get angry enough, grab your rifle and run outside. If you're the only one there, it's not time yet.

I just spit soda all over my keyboard. Well done, sir.

 

[12131]

When do we use the 2nd Amendment?

Everyday.

 

[FROGO207]

A little wake-up for you all.

While in the local hospital waiting for an ultrasound on my heart recently I was called out by a woman because I was wearing my NRA hat. She stated in a 15 minute diatribe that among other things I was representing the scum of the earth and she was protesting against all the NRA and I stood for down in Washington the whole previous week. Her voice rose to a feverish pitch and she almost started to yell. After she stopped to catch her breath I asked if I could say something. She grudgingly said yes. I said " I and others like myself that are willing to stand with my weapon and stop the government from prohibiting you and the others with you from saying what you wanted to without fear of reprisal. Furthermore that in other countries such as say, China the protesters were dealt with in a severe manner. Remember Tienanmen Square for one. So if you find that you need to bite the hand that feeds you please think about this as I am willing to do this for you even if your beliefs happen to be the polar opposite of mine." All I got was the fish mouth and no words as her response as she processed what I had said, then she cursed and walked away rapidly. In this respect we all stand united to stop the government from removing the "OF the people BY the people" from our citizens as a nation on a daily basis. We literally invoke the 2nd every day by our role as armed citizens in the checks and balances of the government in our nation.

Read the constitution and all the amendments, then think a while, then reread them once again. It really makes sense.

 

[12131]

FROGO207, I know what you mean. See my my post right above you (not as many words as yours, but the meaning is the same), and my sigline.