When someone starts a thread asking "what is the best bullet?"...

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Balrog said:
Why can't people just answer the question or at least not participate?
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Because some questions do not have simple A, B, C answers.
When someone asks, "What is the best bullet for whitetails?"

That question does not have a definitive correct answer.

I do not disparage people who ask those questions, as I was once new myself. They are asking the question to be educated on the topic. We should oblige them, politely and respectfully. If the answer is pointing out that there is no chiseled in stone best, and that other factors play into it, then that should be our answer.

Except when talking about what truck is best because everyone knows Toyota beats them all hands down. :neener:
 
I'm not a big game hunter, but I load for my Son who has shot almost every head of American/Canadian
big game. He has a Grand Slam on sheep and has shot all the bears except the Polar. He shoots a .340
Weatherby and uses Nosler Partition bullets. He has never lost a head of big game nor has he ever had
to track an animal. A few ran a little bit but dropped where he could see them. Old fashioned, probably;
but if it works why look for something else.

Zeke
 
I would also add for those who are looking for a defensive load on these forums there is plenty of information out there but it is always good to start a conversation with fellow Gunners especially if they have the same firearm. Remember all defensive loads are different and have varying pro's and cons remind the individual asking the question to run whatever he chooses to shoot it and shoot more than a box because above all it has too work and you have too be comfortable with it and your weapon.
 
"what is the harm of pondering the minute differences in bullet performance?"

All too often it's just a contest in seeing who can Alpha male other contributors into alignment and establish a social pecking order. As said there ARE other considerations which all have a much larger impact on it. So much so that it's usually very difficult to test and PROVE that one bullet is "better" than another. The makers aren't into it to help that much, given their tendency to use names chosen for the marketing impact and the amount of graphic design they lavish on the box.

For the most part the conversations turn into keyboard commando exercises with reams of data, tables, and charts proving one is "better" than another. This usually turns out to be a snapshot of the marketplace, and there is also the demonstrated issue that some vendors hire shills to promote their goods on the internet in forums like this. Give it time, the competition will come up with something better. All you have to do is ask them, they will tell you all about it.

There are those of us who've been seeing these situations now for over 15 years on the internet in gun forums. It's why there are stickies and FAQs, and also why there is a lot less interest over what is the "best," because we've learned it won't last long and was arguable from the very beginning.

Why not argue the minute differences in performance? Because - they are largely minute differences and there are much more important things that control it.
 
Balrog said:
There are a lot of threads started by folks asking what is the best performing bullet for some situation.

Inevitably, we always get folks chiming in with several things that we all know are too but are irrelevant to the very specific question asked, including some of the following:
1. Shot placement is more important than bullet selection
2. Reliability in the gun is more important than bullet selection.
3. Ballistics tests are imperfect and do not reflect real world performance.
4. Practice is more important than bullet selection.

I am sure there are others as well. Yes, these things are all true! We know shot placement is more important. But for 2 identical shot placements, bullet performance may make a difference. We all know a round that jams in your gun is worthless. No need to keep saying that. Ballistics tests are imperfect, but they are the best and most consistent test we have and at a minimum shot not be completely disregarded. Practice is important, but people can't practice 24/7, and during the times you aren't practicing, what is the harm of pondering the minute differences in bullet performance?

I think everyone knows the 4 things listed above are true. They don't need to be a part of every thread. Why can't people just answer the question or at least not participate?
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I've spent a fair amount of time doing calculations involving ballistic coefficients and kinetic energies. Something that a fair number of people who are into reloading may have not considered are some important aspects that contribute to the end result. For example, a cold bore shot versus a hot bore shot and the precision variance results. Another thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned is the precision weight of the projectile being fired. It seems to me that most reloading participants don't put nearly as much focus on the mass of the projectile as they do to the weight of the powder. Something you may want to experiment with is taking several boxes of ammo and weighing each round. As you weigh each round using a high precision scale, you might want to group the rounds by weight. I think that, for example, using subsonic 22 caliber Federal Gold Medal ammo would be ideal for this experiment. If you have by chance read the history of how and why this ammo was developed, you will understand why I make this suggestion. Give it a try and using a bench see how much your precision improves relative to your target.
 
Steel Horse Rider said:
I try to ignore all of the "what is the best" of everything because of the open ended endless answers to that type of question. I cannot tell you what will work best for you based on my likes and dislikes. In my opinion, it is a foolish question.
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exactly. a lot of guys ask what rifle is the best what bullet what caliber then they lecture guys trying to help. there is tons of info on the net to research your self about bullets rifles etc. it almost seems they ask a question then sit back eating popcorn while every one else is arguing
 
The issue is not so much the "what is the best.." type of thread but
that many times there is no good explanation of what the intended use, firearms and other things
that put things into context and make a meaningful and even educational discussion.
Otherwise they become the same non sense of random opinions that tends to repeat itself and gets quite boring.
 
What runs me off from the bullet threads is the argument over fragmenting energy dump vs penetration. I'm in one camp and most folks are in another, there is empirical evidence on both sides and a lot of experience on both sides. I just prefer to avoid the arguments. I'm tired of Internet peeing for distance contests.

For what it's worth, if a bullet performs halfway as it is marketed to perform it's doing well. Like all things these days, performance is overstated and drawbacks are understated, no matter if your talking rifle, pistol, or even specialized shotgun rounds. A lot of things work for putting holes in things.
 
As someone who's already crapped in a couple such threads, I agree 100%. I regret the times I did. It did nothing but distract from the point of the thread and I was only restating the obvious.
 
Fact is, while there is no single "best", some bullets are better than others. Some are a lot better than some others. Some bullets are great in one application but dismal in another. Anyone who believes otherwise has never used one on a living creature. Some bullets are state of the art and do indeed do seemingly magical things. Others are outdated, bordering on useless. Some do exactly what they're supposed to, others are likely to come unglued. The world of terminal ballistics is extremely complicated and folks want simple answers where none exist.

Problem with ballistic testing is not that the test results are irrelevant. It's in how people perceive the results. A bullet that penetrates 10" in test medium is not going to penetrate 10" on a human, 10" on a deer and the same 10" on a Cape buffalo. Ballistic testing serves to compare bullets/loads to each other and the results must be kept in perspective. There are some generalizations that can be made. A bullet that does not expand in media is not going to magically expand in tissue. Same for the reverse. Bullets that tend to penetrate deeper than others in media will likely do the same in tissue.

People want to 'know' they're choosing the best bullet for whatever purpose. All we can really do is take all the information available and make the 'best' decision for ourselves with the knowledge that everything is a compromise of sorts.
 
CraigC said:
People want to 'know' they're choosing the best bullet for whatever purpose. All we can really do is take all the information available and make the 'best' decision for ourselves with the knowledge that everything is a compromise of sorts.
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Agree. This is so much better than ranting about shot placement instead of answering the question.
 
CraigC said:
Fact is, while there is no single "best", some bullets are better than others. Some are a lot better than some others. Some bullets are great in one application but dismal in another. Anyone who believes otherwise has never used one on a living creature. Some bullets are state of the art and do indeed do seemingly magical things. Others are outdated, bordering on useless. Some do exactly what they're supposed to, others are likely to come unglued. The world of terminal ballistics is extremely complicated and folks want simple answers where none exist.
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Kinda says it all.
 
Bullets are designed with specific characteristics taking into account internal, external and terminal ballistics.
While there is no much science behind the average bullet design like a fmj, spire soft point or even soft jacket varmint bullet,
the science of bullet making is continuously evolving. In many cases bullets are selected for their wide range of applications and
in others for a specific application where the design is intended to maximize results. Not only the bullets have evolved but the powders,
rifles, casings, equipment and the tactics that go along with all that.

Good examples of bullet evolution are:

Bullets that are very good flyers to be used in long range / precision shooting.
CNC bullets made of solid copper with extreme precision used for long range or even African game.
Partition and bonded bullets that rely on specific design to assure consisten terminal behavior w/o unpredictable fragmentation.
Military bullets that penetrate very hard barriers yet they behave pretty consistently in soft targets.
Controlled fragmentation bullets for explosive results yet predictable patterns.
Bonded defensive pistol bullets that show amazing and consistent terminal behavior regardless of the caliber.
Lead free frangible projectiles that reduce the chance of injure in enclose places and close quarters.
Lead free polymer compounds for next generation affordable and non-toxic practice.

We could probably pick up one or two specific bullets of each department and write a long thread about characteristics
and philosophy of use.

Everything starts and ends with a bullet hopefully a good one. Everything else is the means of delivering the mail where
is needed. Discussing about calibers and bullets w/o specific goals and applications becomes arbitrary and quite boring
as there is no fruit from this kind of discussion.

IMO, we are blessed with a huge assortment of bullets in many bore departments and amazing quality and consistency.
This is the reason why some bullets and brass are so expensive.
 
dranrab said:
Because they don't have lead and real bullets have lead. Everyone knows real bullets have lead.
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CNC bullets are setting world records. This is a fact.
The machines that cut them are so precise that any tolerances are negligible to most measuring equipment.
They are longer so they require extra twist but modern band designs and careful reloading makes them produce
more with less.

MSG-stehend.jpg
 
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