gunflint
Member
When they do make their move, I believe it will be with insurance and or taxes. They will just price the average American out of his weapons.
When they come for our guns...
- Thread starter cnorman18
- Start date
- Status
when a bunch of stupid people get together they have one big stupid idea, and then they start a campaign and lose because stupid people do stupid things, they will never even try to actually disarm the country.
another thing is that the government isnt some magical force with mystic power with +5 to its disarm ability, the government is just a group of average people with jobs and branches like microsoft.
they can hardly enforce the law as it is now and i doubt they are willing to risk another civil war, because i wont be giving my gun to some jolly wise-crackin ****er that comes knocking at the door- ill be giving him somethin else
another thing is that the government isnt some magical force with mystic power with +5 to its disarm ability, the government is just a group of average people with jobs and branches like microsoft.
they can hardly enforce the law as it is now and i doubt they are willing to risk another civil war, because i wont be giving my gun to some jolly wise-crackin ****er that comes knocking at the door- ill be giving him somethin else
RNB65
Member
Don't answer the door...
Nolo
Member
Truthfully, I'm not sure what I'd do in the event of a total gun ban. It is the first step to autocracy, but Australian and Britain haven't gone down that road. Is it urgent enough to warrant violent resistance? I don't know. I do know that I can't resist if I don't have any guns, though...
RoadkingLarry
Member
Sometimes I get bummed out with the idea that the government wants to take our guns and that gun owners will bend over an take it. Then I go to the Tulsa Wanenmacher Gun Show yesterday and see the immense crowds at the Tulsa county fair grounds, even bigger crowds than the one in March and think that maybe there are enough of us to make a difference. It was also a pleasant change to see folks casually walking around with rifles slung over the solder or a Colt SSA in a holster on the hip and that was in the parking lots and shuttle busses.
yesit'sloaded
Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,662
They are almost done in California, Illinois or New York is next. From then I would predict Mass. and then moving west. They start with the .50s, then the assault rifles, requiring a permit for handguns, then the handguns, then the hunting weapons. The deep south will be the last to fall, but by then there will be no one left to come to their aid. I think if Heller goes our way it will be stopped, if not it will keep going.
devilc
Member
The next round of gun bans will once again be on assault or military style weapons. It will be for the safety of the police.
After that it will be on handguns, for the safety of our children, of course.
Add any sort of 9/11 event into the mix or a terrorist act involving guns such as almost happened in NJ - and anything could happen.
Of course the USG will eventually ban guns!! It began after the Bonus Marches when the Army was used to violently crush a protest put on by war veterans. . . . and the march to being gun free has continued ever since.
After that it will be on handguns, for the safety of our children, of course.
Add any sort of 9/11 event into the mix or a terrorist act involving guns such as almost happened in NJ - and anything could happen.
Of course the USG will eventually ban guns!! It began after the Bonus Marches when the Army was used to violently crush a protest put on by war veterans. . . . and the march to being gun free has continued ever since.
First of all, I don't think enough men will stand up...pro or anti's, to put up a fight. Second, they won't use our armed forces, these are our children. They will use either an outside force or the merciaries they hire. There are, in fact, more mercinaries working for our government than we have troops.
I worry about the future. It looks so bleak and we just go on ignoring all of the signs of the end of our freedom and the rise of the socialist state.
I worry about the future. It looks so bleak and we just go on ignoring all of the signs of the end of our freedom and the rise of the socialist state.
glockman19
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2007
- Messages
- 3,700
Pax, well written. Thank you.
I too fear the day when our soldiers & Law Enforcement officials can not tell the difference of who they are there to serve.
History repeats itself.
I too fear the day when our soldiers & Law Enforcement officials can not tell the difference of who they are there to serve.
History repeats itself.
EricTheBarbarian
Member
Just like the previous poster pointed out, dont forget about the mercenaries from agencies like BlackWater who would have no problem doing anything to American citizens for their 6 figure salaries. Oh i forgot, theyre not mercenaries but "security contractors". Just like stealing your guns isnt stealing but a "siezure".
Id be careful to not get hung up on Democrat or republican. Either party is just as likely to try and disarm American citizens. Republican doesnt mean much when you look at Ahnold and his microstamping or Guiliani calling himself a republican. Each party will just have different reasons for needing to take everyones guns away. Im sure it will be some variety of protecting us from child molestors, terrorists, or drug dealers.
Once again we learn from history, that we never learn from history.
Has it been that long since the 29 Palms Survey?
Have we forgotten it?
For some of the flavor of the survey results, I am quoting here from
http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=19&topic=34&start=10
The actual survey questionnaire:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/palms_survey.htm
For more information and a variety of viewpoints, google "29 palms survey."
Have we forgotten it?
For some of the flavor of the survey results, I am quoting here from
http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=19&topic=34&start=10
The actual survey questionnaire:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/palms_survey.htm
For more information and a variety of viewpoints, google "29 palms survey."
They will do it by outlawing certain things, and then giving people a short time to adjust by giving up rights to those arms and switching to what is still legal. They will add new paperwork, restrictions and tracking, then wait until it just seems normal.
If you look around the world they have not just stormed in to each and every place with paramilitary "swat" teams. That is a tactic reserved for a limited percent.
When hunters and shooters have one type banned, history shows us they bellyache and moan, a couple need tactical responses, but most willingly give up the outlawed type and then do whatever new ridiculous process is required to retain thier ability to use what is still legal. Since some things are still legal, it is never and "all or nothing" situation that would cause the people to resist or revolt.
We see this in Australia where they lost many of thier rights suddenly, and ownership turned into a several month long process for limited types of firearms for those determined individuals.
We see it in the U.K. where handguns were banned, and semi auto rifles and most repeating firearms have been banned for ownership by the general public.
We see it with the assault weapon ban when all of America was suddenly forbidden from various additions on firearms and normal capacity.
They pacify the reaction by saying "It is all illegal, except this _____, but to own _____ is no longer a right, but a privelidge you need to fill out tons of paperwork, and be given permission to own. The owner says "oh, well that is not so much different than before" because they have progressively been introduced to such a process prior to various bans already.
Take America. 100 years ago the average person would consider what we have now no different than how we view the U.K. Firearms are not banned, but many types are restricted or prohibited, and infringement is all around requiring various processes. Various types of people can and are routinely banned from ownership, something unheard of for any free man. Forms are kept about purchases, permission is required through a NICs system etc
If you brought thousands of Americans from the past through time to the future they would think we live in an unfree police state and probably rebel and require a military response. However we have been conditioned. If they outlaw assault weapons, we buy something else. If they outlaw various types of weapons or features, we comply and stay within limitations. If they outlaw a new type, we comply and own what is left. If invasive procedures become required to qualify for ownership, we go through those procedures.
Of course each and every step causes less people to actualy go through with purchasing or becoming new firearm owners. So ownership overall slowly shrinks, and hunters and shooters become fewer and fewer, and willing to tolerate more and more restrictions, and complete more and more forms to continue ownership and use of thier firearms. Eventualy all the have is over-under sxs and single shots, and can only use them in very limited circumstances, paying various fees, and must store them taken apart and locked away.
As all of this changes, people begin to become more passive, and view tools used for self reliance not just limited to firearms or weapons, but everything in general as bad. Licenses become required for everything, to build anything, to create anything, etc. It becomes a society where only the "professionals" can use various tools. Defense becomes delegated to such professionals.
So people imagining suddenly everything will be banned overnight, and all hope will be taken away from the herd is naive. If you take Tyrant 101 you would know that as an effective tyrant you never remove hope, because then the population starts to resist. Hope is what makes cattle march up to the slaughter house believing the people that helped them be born and brought into the world, fed them, took care of them, and provide for thier various needs are to be trusted. Even though they can smell blood, know it is probably a bad idea, they march on.
Even the Nazis understood this. They didn't just round up people to kill them, that would have resulted in revolution and organized resistance when it could be effective, thier enemies still had positions of power, and were well connected. They progressively removed rights, ownership of items which could be used against them, etc.
They made the people they captured believe they could behave a certain way and things would work out for them. They didn't remove hope. They made them think they just wanted to work them as a free labor force. It took a few years after they finaly had the Jews and others right where they wanted them, weak from malnutrition, used to following orders etc before they started doing the things they are famous for now on a wide scale.
The same goes for most Kings throughout history. Removing hope from your subjects is something you never do unless you become desperate.
You always make them feel they can adjust and work with the solutions you provide. Not that all is lost.
So to imagine that armed paramilatary units will go door to door removing ownership is naive. The manpower necessary for that limits it to the small number who resist, or openly defy. They will just gradualy ban more things, make ownership more difficult, and put things in place to know who has what so they can selectively target those that don't comply with new progressive bans.
In fact if you consider that the 2nd was created to give people the ability to own things on par with the infantry used by tyranny, so they could organize into militias and resist them... Then we have already lost. What would be necessary to resist our armed forces effectively has already been outlawed. To mount an effective resistance people would already have to create illegal things. So the intent of the 2nd failed long ago. It is only symbolic now.
If you look around the world they have not just stormed in to each and every place with paramilitary "swat" teams. That is a tactic reserved for a limited percent.
When hunters and shooters have one type banned, history shows us they bellyache and moan, a couple need tactical responses, but most willingly give up the outlawed type and then do whatever new ridiculous process is required to retain thier ability to use what is still legal. Since some things are still legal, it is never and "all or nothing" situation that would cause the people to resist or revolt.
We see this in Australia where they lost many of thier rights suddenly, and ownership turned into a several month long process for limited types of firearms for those determined individuals.
We see it in the U.K. where handguns were banned, and semi auto rifles and most repeating firearms have been banned for ownership by the general public.
We see it with the assault weapon ban when all of America was suddenly forbidden from various additions on firearms and normal capacity.
They pacify the reaction by saying "It is all illegal, except this _____, but to own _____ is no longer a right, but a privelidge you need to fill out tons of paperwork, and be given permission to own. The owner says "oh, well that is not so much different than before" because they have progressively been introduced to such a process prior to various bans already.
Take America. 100 years ago the average person would consider what we have now no different than how we view the U.K. Firearms are not banned, but many types are restricted or prohibited, and infringement is all around requiring various processes. Various types of people can and are routinely banned from ownership, something unheard of for any free man. Forms are kept about purchases, permission is required through a NICs system etc
If you brought thousands of Americans from the past through time to the future they would think we live in an unfree police state and probably rebel and require a military response. However we have been conditioned. If they outlaw assault weapons, we buy something else. If they outlaw various types of weapons or features, we comply and stay within limitations. If they outlaw a new type, we comply and own what is left. If invasive procedures become required to qualify for ownership, we go through those procedures.
Of course each and every step causes less people to actualy go through with purchasing or becoming new firearm owners. So ownership overall slowly shrinks, and hunters and shooters become fewer and fewer, and willing to tolerate more and more restrictions, and complete more and more forms to continue ownership and use of thier firearms. Eventualy all the have is over-under sxs and single shots, and can only use them in very limited circumstances, paying various fees, and must store them taken apart and locked away.
As all of this changes, people begin to become more passive, and view tools used for self reliance not just limited to firearms or weapons, but everything in general as bad. Licenses become required for everything, to build anything, to create anything, etc. It becomes a society where only the "professionals" can use various tools. Defense becomes delegated to such professionals.
So people imagining suddenly everything will be banned overnight, and all hope will be taken away from the herd is naive. If you take Tyrant 101 you would know that as an effective tyrant you never remove hope, because then the population starts to resist. Hope is what makes cattle march up to the slaughter house believing the people that helped them be born and brought into the world, fed them, took care of them, and provide for thier various needs are to be trusted. Even though they can smell blood, know it is probably a bad idea, they march on.
Even the Nazis understood this. They didn't just round up people to kill them, that would have resulted in revolution and organized resistance when it could be effective, thier enemies still had positions of power, and were well connected. They progressively removed rights, ownership of items which could be used against them, etc.
They made the people they captured believe they could behave a certain way and things would work out for them. They didn't remove hope. They made them think they just wanted to work them as a free labor force. It took a few years after they finaly had the Jews and others right where they wanted them, weak from malnutrition, used to following orders etc before they started doing the things they are famous for now on a wide scale.
The same goes for most Kings throughout history. Removing hope from your subjects is something you never do unless you become desperate.
You always make them feel they can adjust and work with the solutions you provide. Not that all is lost.
So to imagine that armed paramilatary units will go door to door removing ownership is naive. The manpower necessary for that limits it to the small number who resist, or openly defy. They will just gradualy ban more things, make ownership more difficult, and put things in place to know who has what so they can selectively target those that don't comply with new progressive bans.
In fact if you consider that the 2nd was created to give people the ability to own things on par with the infantry used by tyranny, so they could organize into militias and resist them... Then we have already lost. What would be necessary to resist our armed forces effectively has already been outlawed. To mount an effective resistance people would already have to create illegal things. So the intent of the 2nd failed long ago. It is only symbolic now.
Average Guy
Member
Now is the best time to buy weapons. Buy now or be priced out forever!
Thernlund
Member
Completely agree. A machine gun is 100% legal, but you're priced out of that, eh?
Ban importation and tax the hell out of the U.S. manufacturers. Fewer and fewer people can afford guns. Manufactures raise prices to stay in business. Then even fewer people can afford to buy. Ect, ect. The gov't isn't stupid. Slow and steady wins the race.
Again, I agree. I am actively buying just about every NFA item and "assault weapon" I can find that I can reasonably afford that may end up on another AWB list.
-T.
Last edited:
RockyMtnTactical
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 3,539
It will never happen all at once. They will slowly chip away until all we have is relics and such... Or just tax guns and ammo out of existence...
ColinthePilot
Member
I will not break the guns laws for a long long time. Every time some new ban comes out, a new grave-shaped hole will appear on some undeveloped property I own somewhere and the only record of it will be some coordinates on a handheld GPS somewhere. At some point, whether by my decision or that of le resistance, i'll dig up my stockpile and whoever wants to take them better bring some armor and pack a lunch.
More and more guns laws will eventually turn law abiding gun owners into criminals, even though nothing will have changed but the words on the books.
More and more guns laws will eventually turn law abiding gun owners into criminals, even though nothing will have changed but the words on the books.
Citroen
Member
Very well said, Pax.
In Turkey, when the government decided to exterminate the Armenians, they confiscated the guns - Armenians who did not even have guns bought some on the blackmarket so they would have something to turn in TO AVOID THE TORTURE OF BEING TOLD TO REVEAL THE HIDDING PLACE OF GUNS THEY DID NOT EVEN HAVE!
Remember the advise on how to "cook a frog"? You won't cook him by dropping him in boiling water; you place him in warm water and gradually turn up the heat - he will stay until he is cooked!
Fellow Frogs, the water is getting hot!
John
Charlotte, NC
In Turkey, when the government decided to exterminate the Armenians, they confiscated the guns - Armenians who did not even have guns bought some on the blackmarket so they would have something to turn in TO AVOID THE TORTURE OF BEING TOLD TO REVEAL THE HIDDING PLACE OF GUNS THEY DID NOT EVEN HAVE!
Remember the advise on how to "cook a frog"? You won't cook him by dropping him in boiling water; you place him in warm water and gradually turn up the heat - he will stay until he is cooked!
Fellow Frogs, the water is getting hot!
John
Charlotte, NC
Zoogster remarked:
I knew there was a formal class on this! I just knew it! Where's it taught? Yale? Harvard? I thought they were just reading Machiavelli's The Prince for extra credit in Politics 101.
MDW Guns predicted:
And at a 4% inflation rate (underestimated) the $200 NFA tax would be $3500 today.
Kinda makes your sphincter shrink, don't it?
[ 200 X (1.04 e 73) ]
I knew there was a formal class on this! I just knew it! Where's it taught? Yale? Harvard? I thought they were just reading Machiavelli's The Prince for extra credit in Politics 101.
MDW Guns predicted:
And at a 4% inflation rate (underestimated) the $200 NFA tax would be $3500 today.
Kinda makes your sphincter shrink, don't it?
[ 200 X (1.04 e 73) ]
StuckInMA
Member
They don't need to come for our guns.
Taxes on ammunition and reloading supplies will force some people to choose between shooting and eating. The list of gun free and *no hunting area's will make others decide it's not worth the hassle.
Problem solved.
The framework is already there. They've been quite successful with smoking. (Please don't turn this into a debate about smoking.)
Cigarettes are still legal but taxes and restrictions are slowly removing them from society. Some smokers are beginning to put the habit behind them because they have to choose between smokes or food. Others can't stand the hassle of having to head outside of bars, hotels, restaurants, etc. every time they want to light up.
*Too many of our nations hunters are more worried about the erosion of available land then the erosion of their 2A rights. I used to be one of those hunters so I mean no disrespect.
Taxes on ammunition and reloading supplies will force some people to choose between shooting and eating. The list of gun free and *no hunting area's will make others decide it's not worth the hassle.
Problem solved.
The framework is already there. They've been quite successful with smoking. (Please don't turn this into a debate about smoking.)
Cigarettes are still legal but taxes and restrictions are slowly removing them from society. Some smokers are beginning to put the habit behind them because they have to choose between smokes or food. Others can't stand the hassle of having to head outside of bars, hotels, restaurants, etc. every time they want to light up.
*Too many of our nations hunters are more worried about the erosion of available land then the erosion of their 2A rights. I used to be one of those hunters so I mean no disrespect.
usp9
Member
If THEY can't get a handle on 15 million illegals, how are THEY going to handle 100 million gun owners and 250 million guns?
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