Where did that flinch come from?!

[RA40]

Took the .38/.357 out today and ran Fiocchi 130gr .38 SPL through it. This stuff is mild-soft though I noticed it flashed up more. Was watching the target and I could see the front sight dip down when finishing the DA pull. The corresponding impact was nearly off the paper. To test, loaded up some of the spent cases and randomly had them in the cylinder...yup, I was starting to jerk the revolver down in anticipation.

I also noticed after more rounds that I was not seeing the muzzle or cylinder gap flash so I'm blinking right at that moment. Had to make a very concentrated effort to not do that and those shots would hit right. This may be a visual reaction because I'm more accustomed to the semi's where there is not this flash coming from the cylinder gap. Some visual reflex for the eyes blinking. Suffice the .357 mag rounds yielded more flinch because those have a larger orange flash and more report.

Instead of casual plinking spent the 100 rounds trying to relax and not flinch while keeping the eyes open.

 

[someguy2800]

Time to shoot some more 22. All the stuff you don’t notice your doing with a centerfire are obvious with a 22.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

You want to see a flinch shoot a Bond Arms Snake Slayer with .410 slugs.

I'm of the mindset of stepping up rather than down to work out flinches. Spend some more time with the 357's and the 38's will become a lot easier.

 

[WrongHanded]

I'm of the mindset of stepping up rather than down to work out flinches. Spend some more time with the 357's and the 38's will become a lot easier.

This concept helped me out quite a bit. I used .44 Mag to make .357 seem mild. It works, providing I keep shooting .44 fairly regularly.

But when I do start flinching, it tends to be later on in the range session. It creeps in. Then I sometimes dry fire whilst letting the barrel cool, until my flinch subsides. Other times, I step away and focus on something else til I'm calmer. And I've also noticed that shooting faster helps eliminate it, for me. It's hard to anticipate the blast and recoil in the same way when I'm pulling the trigger as fast as I can line up the sights.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I was starting to jerk the revolver down in anticipation.

While you might indeed be blinking and flinching as a reaction to the flash and bang of the round going off, bear in mind that the flash/bang occurs after the round has gone off and really doesn't have much effect of your trigger management ability.

Usually when your jerk the trigger in response to the flash/bang, it is because you are trying to "get it over with"

Was watching the target and I could see the front sight dip...I was starting to jerk the revolver down in anticipation.

This has the same effect, because you're trying to make the shot go off "now". Peeking at the target is a common precursor to jerking the trigger

When shooting for accuracy, independent of speed of followup shots, what you should be trying to do is not become invested in the result and "making" the shot go off. If you can stay in the process of seeing the sights and pressing the trigger straight to the rear at a constant speed, you shouldn't experience jerking/slapping/snatching of the trigger and your shots should go wherever you sights are aligned.

 

[RA40]

I also noticed that instead of staging the trigger doing a smooth full pull was better. Provided I was steady enough to make pull while still on target. Took some breaks between live fire to make a conscious effort to be smooth. Time to get some more revolver time in.

 

[340PD]

Stop looking for the muzzle flash and focus on the front sight for a full second after the gun has gone off.
Randomly load your cylinder with a spent case or two.
Dry fire until your finger is sore.
Done deal.

 

[ATLDave]

You already have a keen awareness of what is going on, which is the first step to beating a flinch. You already know that flinching starts with the eyes. You're on the right track. The hard part is that the blink/flinch response is coming from your lizard brain, not your prefrontal cortex. You're asking the logical/conscious part of your brain to override the stuff that is hard-wired in the deeper parts of your brain. What you have to do is manage to fire X number of rounds with your eyes open, so that your lizard brain will learn to "trust" that nothing bad happens when this gun goes off with your eyes open. So you're just trying to pile up successful instances until you get to X. What is X? It depends on the shooter (and even the gun).

Here are some things to try if this problem proves difficult to lick:

• Try going up and down in power. Use some .22 or other very light recoiling gun/cartridge combo to build some "trust" in the lower parts of your brain and get used to seeing the gun go off again. But also try some even-stiffer recoiling rounds. Not a large number of them, just enough to help "reset" what "a lot of blast/flash/recoil" is.
• Take away the target entirely. Just have the sole goal of seeing the gun go off.
• As you noted, a rolling trigger pull sometimes helps... the building anticipation of the shot from "staging" greatly increases the likelihood of a flinch/blink if you're fighting one.
• Also helpful: rapid shooting. Load up a cylinder, take away the target, and crank rounds into the backstop. You may blink on the first shot, but eventually your lizard brain and hands will be out of sync, and you'll get some of the eyes-open iterations that count towards X.
• Make sure your ears are adequately protected. I highly, highly recommend double-plugging (muffs over plugs).

Accept that, if you're a natural flincher, you can "cure" the flinch in one range session but see it recur on a later day. The good news is that the cure is generally easier each time. Eventually, you can make it a non-factor in your shooting. However, I will note/confess that, although I'm a fairly proficient handgun shooter, when I try a completely-new-to-me handgun, I have to concentrate very hard not to flinch on the first shot... my lizard brain doesn't trust "strange" guns.

 

[tipoc]

yup, I was starting to jerk the revolver down in anticipation

This is what was happening, as you said. But rather than "jerk the revolver" down you were likely pushing into the shot, just as you said, in anticipation. This causes the barrel to dip.

 

[bassjam]

If I ever find myself flinching I know it's time to put down the centerfire and spend some time with my Buckmark or Mark I.

 

[RA40]

Some of the practice was mixing in the .38 SPL and .357 along with a fired case or three. The .22 was along on this trip too so I finished off with that one. The flinch didn't appear so pondering ATLDave's post, I have to get the brain straight with the revolver.

 

[labnoti]

I found the most disturbing thing to me is the noise. If I doubled up and wore 33dB NRR earplugs properly (rolled and stuffed in with the ear pulled back by the other hand around the back of the head) and large 30dB NRR Peltor ear muffs, .357 magnum loads sounded like an air gun. Even though the recoil was stout in a lightweight gun, I wasn't flinching. Sudden, loud sounds can cause involuntary startling responses.

With recoil, I think one has to face it to overcome it. Avoiding it by shooting a .22LR or wimp loads doesn't do anything to overcome flinching. It does allow one to work on other fundamentals without heavy recoil interfering. If one wants to work on stance, grip, sight-alignment, or trigger-control and doesn't want recoil disturbing them, then they can by all means accomplish this with .22LR or dry-fire. If the fundamentals are sound, one still has to actually use the guns that recoil heavily in order to become proficient with them.

I can't recommend the same for the noise. Reciprocally, one could argue that one must learn to shoot loud guns without hearing protection in order to be properly prepared for a gun fight or other defensive scenario in which one will not have the opportunity to dawn their hearing protection. But heavy recoiling guns rarely cause permanent injury. I know too well that loud guns can cause permanent injury in a very short time. I think it's foolish to sacrifice one's hearing to train under more "realistic" conditions.

 

[Reeferman]

For me I get a flinch when shooting indoors mostly from the noise of others shooting especially rifles with brakes. Outdoors with no one else around it takes little time to get the flinch almost completely gone.

 

[ATLDave]

Labotni, nobody is saying to “avoid” anything. We’re talking about how to work through a problem for that portion of the population that cannot (or cannot easily) simply decide not to flinch. Some people aren’t flinches by nature and don’t have to mess with it. Some people are.

 

[Tallball]

I had a really bad one after a hunting trip some years back. I fired a single-shot 12 gauge shotgun when the butt was still an inch away from my shoulder. I got a big bruise, and it took a lot of work with 22's to get rid of the flinch.

 

[RA40]

I shoot indoors so I attempt to select times that have the least amount of shooters. If my brain is in timid mode, anything larger than 9mm can get me. My work place setting is spent in pretty quiet environments. If the lane next to me has a .223/5.56, 10mm or 44 mag, I move to a lane further way. I can focus-tune out to some extent but not those. I stuff a 33db plug along with the 31 db over ear muffs. On this particular day it was reasonably quiet. There was a guy with this .223 about 4 lanes down, his going off didn't make me jumpy.

 

[HB]

Taking away the target or firing at a large piece of white paper will help. Focuse on the front sight and trigger.

Of course this is after a 100:1 dry fire to live ratio

 

[RA40]

Appreciate all the tips! Brought it again, mixed in .38 SPL +P 110gr, regular 130gr, some CCI Lawman .357 sprinkled with spent casings. That mixed cylinder did well to helping me realize to grip the gun and be steady through the DA pull. Between cylinders I'd dry fire to maintain the front sight placement. About 36 live rounds in, the flinch was fading. Now and then I knew there was a .357 in there and predicted but largely those surprised me when they went off. After 150 rounds, was pleased with the results of the session.