Where/how do you carry your spare magazine?

[JohnKSa]

Here's a harrowing video showing an officer get killed on a traffic stop. The perpetrator was chased down and killed, but in the process he managed to shoot another officer.

That's not what this thread is about though.


Take a look at the slow motion slide-lock reload that starts about 46:15 in the video. Pay close attention to the officer's weak hand when he strips the empty magazine and then look closely at the hand/magazine when the hand comes back into the field of view of his body cam with the fresh magazine.

You will see a potentially deadly problem. Fortunately, it was not an issue in this particular situation but there is a good lesson to be learned.

How does something like this happen?

How could it be prevented?

Would this be a problem you might encounter during a reload based on how you carry your spare magazine?

 

[CDW4ME]

Appeared to look at magazine orientation during reload?

I carry a spare mag on my belt, always in same position, always covered by untucked shirt. If I had to tuck my shirt, it would negatively impact spare mag.
There are some that carry spare mag loose in a pocket, which would likely result in time lost to acquire and orient.
In before: Not a cop and/or not in a "bad area" so they don't carry a spare mag possibly rationalized by odds, statistics ... (ignoring potential malfunction and role of spare mag)

 

[JohnKSa]

Look more closely at the fresh magazine when he brings it up to the gun. Look at the side of the magazine. When he reached for his loaded mag, he somehow got a key in his hand at the same time. It wasn't there when he stripped the empty from the gun, so the only place it could have come from was where ever he went to grab for the fresh mag.

I don't know where/how he's carrying his spare mags, but somehow, a key got in there with one of them and he ended up grabbing both the key and the magazine when he reloaded.

Here is his support hand reaching up to strip the empty mag. You can see that his hand is empty.

Here he is bringing his spare mag up to the gun. He has both the magazine and a key in his hand.

Fortunately the key falls away as the magazine is inserted because of the way he happened to get hold of the two items.

 

[Durango_Dave]

John Correia of Active Self Protection has seen 40,000 videos of gun fights. He says he can count the number of private citizens that have reloaded during a gun fight on one hand. It doesn't happen.

On the other hand it is common for law enforcement to reload. The goal is different for police. When the criminal has been shot a citizen should flee. But the cop would then have to approach the criminal to bring him into custody.

What the citizen needs is high capacity. Citizens never have 2 seconds to reload.

 

[JohnKSa]

Right. Some people might choose not to carry a spare mag. Just like some folks might decide not to carry a gun at all.

But if one does decide to carry a gun, they should do it in a manner that makes it reasonably likely that they will be able to get to it and use it if they need it. In exactly the same way, people who choose to carry a reload should do so in a manner that makes it reasonably likely that they will be able to get to the mag when they need it, that the mag won't be fouled with foreign objects, and that they will be able to grab the mag without picking up other objects at the same time.

It doesn't make sense to carry a spare mag and then do so in a way that makes it likely that objects will foul the mag, other objects might be grabbed when the mag is retrieved, or get in the way of accessing the mag, etc.

And, of course, the general expectation is that folks who chose not to carry a spare mag would also have no interest in a discussion about the details of implementation.

 

[trackskippy]

I carry a spare mag attached to my belt and stuffed into the front of my pants opposite my gun. Quick, easy access, and nothing to interfere with it.

Ive never understood the mindset of not carrying a reload, no matter what kind of gun. Same goes for practicing doing them on a regular basis so you're very familiar with doing them. Its just part of being competent with your gun.

The key in the clip above looks like a vehicle key. I wonder if he didnt have a spare key for his car stuffed in his mag pouch with the mag for an emergency.

 

[GEM]

If I have a gun in an OWB on one side (which fits my body profile best and I can conceal with a cover garment - not a shoot me vest), I have a spare mag on the opposite side in a quality OWB mag holder.

There are quality pocket pouches for mags. I have a neat one that fits snugly into a cargo pocket. It is slow though. Through competitions and repetitions I have the proper grip, mag dropping, etc. pretty much in my motor patterns. One never knows under stress but reps count.

 

[Maver1ck]

In my pocket, mag carrier OWB, and in my vehicle.

 

[GBExpat]

If I carry a spare mag in a coat or pants pocket, that is all that is in that pocket ... same with a (always-holstered) firearm.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

John Correia of Active Self Protection has seen 40,000 videos of gun fights. He says he can count the number of private citizens that have reloaded during a gun fight on one hand. It doesn't happen.

Several points. John Correia isn't aware of all the civilian gun fights. He probably has no clue as to how many fights by civilians ended up with empty guns, for example. Probably in every case where somebody shot to empty, they needed a reload, but most probably didn't reload because they weren't carrying a speedloader or a spare mag. Since he does know of examples, then obviously it does happen. Saying it doesn't is like saying a gunfight will be at 3 yards, 3 shots, and last 3 seconds. Many are like that, but certainly not all of them. The issue is that you never know if the fight you are in will require more or less ammunition until the fight is over.

Being in a gunfight, in and of itself, it not common for the average citizen. No doubt needing to reload is less common. In other words, the odds are small, but are never zero.

 

[WrongHanded]

The spare magazine for my primary pistol is in an open topped mag holder on my non-dominant hip. It is carried bottom up, front facing forwards, for my index finger to run on. I practice reloading from exactly this placement and this orientation, from under a cover garment.

The spare for my backup gun, is kept in the same orientation, but in my front pocket. This is not ideal, but it keeps it out of the way and is at least a consistent if not immediately accessible location. I have actually tried live-fire reloads from this position on a few occasions, and it's very slow. I will run away first, and try to reload if pursued. Otherwise, scramble for cover and furiously dig into my pocket. And yes, I keep other things in that pocket. A knife is clipped to it, and I also keep a small card wallet in there. However, both actually stabilize the magazine's orientation and placement, which is fortunate.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Spare mag for me is appendix opposite the holster.

The holster is a system that includes the spare mag carrier. Works for me. Speedy reloads.

 

[.455_Hunter]

EDC gun reloads (either one spare mag or one spare speed strip) are always carried inside a small knife pouch in my rear right pocket. I view the reload more administratively, and not tactically- but still necessary to have on your person. This could include reloading immediately after an encounter in-case the perps "friends" respond before LE gets there, a mag gets inadvertently ejected/lost, or suffers a baseplate failure. I don't consider rapid reloading to be super high on the priority list for a civilian carrier.

 

[Mizar]

He was carrying a spare car key in his magazine holder, together with his spare mag - all I can ask is "Why?!?". You have like ten other places in you uniform to put it, why exactly there?

 

[bdickens]

John Correia of Active Self Protection has seen 40,000 videos of gun fights. He says he can count the number of private citizens that have reloaded during a gun fight on one hand. It doesn't happen.

On the other hand it is common for law enforcement to reload. The goal is different for police. When the criminal has been shot a citizen should flee. But the cop would then have to approach the criminal to bring him into custody.

What the citizen needs is high capacity. Citizens never have 2 seconds to reload.

Yeah, notwithstanding that Mr. Correia can't possibly have the information on every DGU that has ever occurred, if God forbid I ever were to become the first, I at least want that option available to me.

 

[Craig_AR]

Acknowledged experts are worth listening to.
Massad Ayoob: Three reasons why you need to carry extra ammo and magazines - Critical Mas Episode 28 June 1 2022
John Correia: A Rebuttal To Mas Ayoob's Video On Carrying A Reload June 16, 2022
as well as an earlier statement from Correia:
May 2022: How Many Reloads Should A Private Citizen Carry? (ASP BITs)

 

[herrwalther]

Looks like a car key came with the magazine. If he had a key fob near his magazines, it might have been ripped off the ring/fob body during the reload.

John Correia of Active Self Protection has seen 40,000 videos of gun fights. He says he can count the number of private citizens that have reloaded during a gun fight on one hand. It doesn't happen.

Correia aside, there are only two instances where having more ammo is a bad thing: 1) you are swimming or 2) on fire. A spare magazine is insignificant weight compared to a firearm and the whole other host of crap someone carries on a daily basis. I prefer to carry a spare. Not because I think I need more ammo in an extended gun fight, but to fix malfunctions. The magazine is the weak link in a semi-auto firearm. Replacing it solves quite a few different malfunctions.

I keep my spare magazine at the 9-10 o clock of my body. In an IWB or OWB carrier depending on clothes, firearm, weather etc. Nothing close enough for my fingers to grab with it and nothing inside the pouch with it.

 

[The Night Rider]

 

[Rexster]

Having worked for a big-city PD for 33+ years of sworn service, from 1984 to 2018, I will say that numerous fellow officers used their mag pouches to hold things other than just spare mags. It was mostly keys, and gloves, that I recall, seeing shoved into the mag pouches, along with mags. Quite a few things would be kept inside mag pouches that did not contain a spare mag, but, that sets-up the officer for a “slip-and-capture error,” when reaching for a spare mag. (That is why I never bought into that trend of using a concealed-carry mag pouch, made in one unit with a light holder. I did not want to try to reload my weapon, with the light, or pull a mag, when I needed the light.)

 

[Rexster]

If a “NY Reload” is a second handgun, then, I reckon that my “Texas Spare Magazine” is my second revolver’s loaded cylinder, carried inside that second revolver. (Texas Rangers were carrying second Colt Paterson Revolving Pistols, before Texas was a state.)

 

[Craig_AR]

Yeah, notwithstanding that Mr. Correia can't possibly have the information on every DGU that has ever occurred, if God forbid I ever were to become the first, I at least want that option available to me.

For those who have not watched the videos, please understand that Correia does not say civilians should not carry spare mags. In fact, he specifically says to carry them if you wish. He does say that in tens of thousands of actual incidents, he has never seen a civilian use a reload before the incident ends.
Mas, on the other hand, does recommend carrying mags just in case one of the conditions he discusses take place.
Melding both viewpoints, it is all about playing the odds about what you need to deal with, just in case. Where do you put your priorities for carry gear and for training?
And keep in mind that he posits the role of the civilian defender is to break contact with the threat, in contrast to the law enforcement mission to pursue and stop or capture the threat. Thus, John is all about LEOs carrying multiple spare mags and practicing regularly doing reloads.

 

[JohnKSa]

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince people to carry a reload, nor does the video provide an especially good argument for doing so given that the shooter was killed before the officer's gun was empty.

The thread is more oriented towards people who have already made the choice to carry a reload. The point is that they should think about how they choose to implement that decision so that if they do ever need the reload, it works smoothly for them.

 

[bdickens]

For those who have not watched the videos, please understand that Correia does not say civilians should not carry spare mags. In fact, he specifically says to carry them if you wish. He does say that in tens of thousands of actual incidents, he has never seen a civilian use a reload before the incident ends.

I know that. You know that. But apparently the gentleman to whom I was replying doesn't.

 

[herrwalther]

Another reason to carry a spare I noticed the other day. Went out in town on errands carrying my Glock 19 clone without the spare magazine. My belt felt unbalanced without 15 extra rounds on my off side.

Carry a spare if you want. Some people are just fine with their 6 shooter and nothing else. I am just not one of those people.

 

[Kleanbore]

Extra magazines are necessary for competition and for training; they are needed for law enforcement officers whose duties would require continuing to pursue a suspect after a defensive shooting incident where a subsequent defensive shooting incident may occur; and they are very nice to have when "going shooting".

It is possible to visualize a situation in which a civilian defender might need an extra, but that is likely to require some pretty unrealistic assumptions.

Correa's observations would tell us that in the real world the extra magazine will not come into play with any frequency at all. However, rather than contemplate that analysis in the abstract, the prudent civilian defender would be well served to try reloading in some realistic FoF scenarios--quite a number of them, varied.

That could illustrate not only the extent to which the need for a reload is likely, but more pointedly, whether a reload could actually be effected in a real incident.