Where is the Bowie Knife?

[Barry the Bear]

Well this has been a fun thread although we may never no the true ending at least we have the journey.

 

[xxmaa]

Knives at Washington Ar.

Made by David White , who works the James Black shop "there in Washington

 

[xxmaa]

Forge an anvil James black shop ; Washington Arkansas

A reproduction of the shop on the exact location.

 

[JRH6856]

The Iron Mistress by Paul Wellman was based heavily on the James Black version and describes a knife much like the one pictured in #27. Even said Black used steel from a meteorite. The book was made into a movie starring Alan Ladd. Both contributed to the legend and probably helped popularize that particular version of the knife.

Bowie's wife wasn't just a Mexican aristocrat, she was Maria Ursula de Veramendi, the daughter of the vice-governor of Coahuila y Texas who was also Bowie's business partner. Yes, Santa Anna knew who he was.

 

[rcmodel]

I just ran across a news story today stating Phil Collins is donating has massive collection of Alamo artifacts to the Alamo Visitors Center museum.

It further states one of the artifacts is the original Bowie Knife!!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/30/dont-remember-alamo-texas-wants-to-change-that/


Then I came across this.
http://www.relentlessknives.com/newsletter0411.html

rc

 

[hso]

The Collins collection includes the original Jim Bowie knife

News people are so cute that the silliness they spout would even make Mr. Spock laugh.

***

I spent several hours at a little hammer-in with the bowie collector and researcher that set up the HAM Bowie Exhibit and was the Guest Curator while it ran. I told him about this thread and he agreed that we'd probably never know in detail what the actual knife looked like that Jim Bowie used in the Sandbar Fight since there were only general descriptions of the times or what the actual knife Jim Bowie was carrying at the Alamo looked like. Both are lost to history and since there were no authentic drawings, sketches, or specific detailed descriptions we only have our wishes and opinions regardless of how fervently held or certainly stated they might be. He also said that this mystery is part of the great fun of it and we'd all be disappointed and have nothing to discuss if we actually knew.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I looked at your link and found this:

Although James Black did not put a maker's mark on his knives, curatorial analysis has determined that Bowie No. 1 was made by James Black.

A curator or keeper of a cultural heritage institution (i.e., gallery, museum, library or archive) is a content specialist responsible for an institution's collections and involved with the interpretation of heritage material. Curatorial analysis means that that a member of the institute looked at the knife and decided that it was made by James Black.

One should always be skeptical of authentication by for profit institutions. Having a a sacred object brings lots of money and prestige. The number of religious artifacts around the world throughout history should show that . Lots of Churches claim to have a true piece of the cross, or the shroud that Jesus was buried in, or a sacred rock or bone. All of these have brought lots of paying visitors. Take a look at how many Muslims come to see the Kaaba Stone inMecca. I recall that Alexander the Great went to Troy and took a shield and spear which were said to have belonged to Achilles. Since Alexander left his own, it was a fair trade, as later events proved. The Jewish temple was built around the Ark of the covenant. So was the Ethiopian Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion. It also the subject of an internet hoax when a hoax story came out that someone stole their Ark! http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/ethiopia-ark-of-covenant-reported-stolen-by-church-authorities/ It would be funny if the Ark was actually stolen, because the Monks could create a new one, and since only the Monks get to see the thing, no one would really know one way or another.

The Historic Museum of Arkansas is like any other Museum, has bills, salaries to pay and has a financial incentive to hype their collection. Therefore "curatorial analysis" by its staff of an object that draws brings additional revenue is suspect. I would be interested in reading the details of their Curatorial analysis to see if it has any basis in fact. Their claim to the one true Bowie knife, or Bowie knife maker, is just one out of many.

No sir it is supported by the Tax payers and they have no reason to lie about what they have.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

That lower link was an interesting read rc. There sure are a lot of different "bowie" knives.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, there are.

Almost as many as there are 'Jessie Jame's gun!!

Or almost as many as 'Wells Fargo' stamped double barrel junk shotguns!!

rc

 

[Tirod]

What blade style or accouterments are lost to history.

I wouldn't automatically categorized what a blacksmith made as being primitive, tho. Given it was made to order, and having the time to do it right, there's no reason to assume that a man of Bowie's character would want something roughly made on the level of a cheap Sheffield import butcher knife. If that was the goal, then why not pick one of those up at the trade house?

No, he wanted something different - a bespoke knife with certain features. A blacksmith could do that and it wasn't going to be just another butcher knife. Knives were self defense weapons held in regard - they always worked, where the guns of the period may be good for one shot and then became a striking tool. What you wore as your expressed persona and station in life was usually given some thought, at least as far as not detracting from your personal self image. No different then than today. Bowies knife was not run of the mill or a roughly hewn primitive tool. Anyone could have that - and Bowie wasn't known for his cheap trader's knife same as any highwayman or cutthroat.

Much beyond that and it's your guess, tho.

 

[Gordon]

Jeez, after all this reasearch I guess these are not original Bowie knives


I was absolutely positive the one on the extreme right in picture below was authentic

 

[rcmodel]

No!

The one on the left with the plastic handle is for sure the original Bowie knife.

Rc

 

[hso]

Gordon,

I can't tell for certain if you're being tongue in cheek or not, but you're well aware that there are no detailed descriptions or drawings of the knife from the Sandbar Fight or from the Alamo so there's no way to know what the first or last knife James Bowie used looked like. IOW, no with near certainty none of those could be said to look like the original "original" Jim Bowie knife in spite of all of them being original somethings.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Yes it been lost to History.