Which .223?

[Buzz9mm]

You can consistently hit a paper plate with an SKS at 300 yards. It's much harder to find a good example now that it once was but they're out there. I'm not trying to talk you into buying something you don't want. It won't be a target gun but for a SD carbine they will certainly get the job done. Talking about any "SHTF" scenarios is frowned on at this board BTW. It's seen as something too rare to be a realistic problem even to discuss things like Katrina and the LA riots. It quickly gets into zombie guns and Red Dawn scenarios is the thinking. And both of those things are comic book fantasy subjects and not even good comic book thinking really. Personally I can see a need for a SD carbine if you live in a place where you can use one. Most places you're more likely to kill your neighbors if you do try to use one for SD. I live in such a remote area things are a little different for me. But I do feel someone should warn you that "SHTF" questions aren't popular with the mods here and it's their board. This is a gun board and not a fantasy board. That's their thinking and I can't disagree with their aim.

Okay, I want aware of that. I apologize and I made the corrections. So do you guys think I would be better off with a "budget" AR then a Mini-14? Also, I appreciate the suggestions of the 7.62s but I have my heart set on the .223/5.56. That's another thing, can the Mini-14 take 5.56 or does it have to be .223?

 

[seeking_coyotes]

I love thr Ruger mini14. Shoots anything and won't jam. Only drawback is imho the accuracy stinks.

 

[Justin]

I've yet to see an SKS that's consistent at 300 yards. Not saying they don't exist, but I've yet to see it first hand.

So do you guys think I would be better off with a "budget" AR then a Mini-14?

Long story short, it depends on how hard you plan to run the gun. If all you plan to do is shoot off the bench a handful of idle Saturdays every year, or shoot coyotes, the Mini14 will work just as well as the AR.

If you plan to push yourself and the gun pretty hard, either in competition or at a defensive carbine class or two, as well as running defensive drills and the like, go with the AR.

The big upside to an AR, even a cheap one, is that you can always upgrade parts of it at a later date.

 

[Buzz9mm]

I've yet to see an SKS that's consistent at 300 yards. Not saying they don't exist, but I've yet to see it first hand.



Long story short, it depends on how hard you plan to run the gun. If all you plan to do is shoot off the bench a handful of idle Saturdays every year, or shoot coyotes, the Mini14 will work just as well as the AR.

If you plan to push yourself and the gun pretty hard, either in competition or at a defensive carbine class or two, as well as running defensive drills and the like, go with the AR.

The big upside to an AR, even a cheap one, is that you can always upgrade parts of it at a later date.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I have to go only a handful of Saturdays a year because I can't afford to go more then that. I'm leaning towards the Mini-14.

 

[Kendal Black]

Lots of discussion around here on Mini accuracy. The 580- numbered and subsequent Minis seem to be reported as straighter shooting on average than the older ones. I haven't tried one but they embody changes made in a Ruger product improvement program a few years ago.

You will also find there are many accuracy mod ideas and tuning tricks for Minis of all vintages.

I'd sum up by saying the AR acts like it wants to shoot straight, a quality the Mini isn't exactly known for... The mini's rep is about running trouble free, or more nearly so.

 

[Smaug]

• Mini-14
• Kel-Tec SU16CA
• Savage bolt action, Model 110/112 etc.
• Thompson/Center Icon
• Ruger Hawkeye
• Browning BAR
• Browning BLR

Not 100% sure the Brownings are available in .223, but if they are, they're worth considering.

I bought my first assault rifle a couple weeks ago. A Marlin 1894 in 44 Magnum. Probably a lot more devastating inside 100 yards than a .223.

 

[Squidward]

Mini 14 ranch models come with rings and a proprietary mount on the receiver. Minis are plenty accurate for plinking and HD. Lots of info for them at: http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/

Kel-Tec SU 16 CA model has a picatinney rail and uses AR mags. They are also plenty accurate for plinking and HD. Lots of info for them at:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
I have both.. And I have no complaints. Good luck!

 

[benzy2]

Thanks for all of the responses guys. The purpose of the rifle would be target shooting and plinking. I know that some ARs can be had for cheap, but I just thought I would go for the gusto or not go at all. I have been eyeballing Bushmasters for as long as I can remember, but I couldn't bring myself to spend $1000 on one. Especially since I like the Mini-14 just as much and that extra $300 would buy a lot of ammo. I guess my question is, is the Mini-14 accurate enough? Not the new fancy "Harmonic Dampener" BS. Just a basic, bare bones Mini-14. Could I hog hunt accurately at 300 yards if I did my part?

Bushmaster is a midgrade rifle. They aren't bargain basement, but they don't do a lot of things the "top tier" rifles do. Typically they run mid range to upper range in price. If you are looking Bushmaster, also look at RRA. RRA is in a similar build quality state but are known to be very accurate rifles. You could also look CMMG bargain rifles. CMMG has a decent reputation for midgrade rifles. At $599, they are darn hard to beat. If I had to pick between it and a Bushmaster of similar features, I'd probably take the CMMG. Stag is another that puts out a decent middle of the road rifle.

You can also build your own. A stripped lower can be had for as little as $60. Del-ton sells a rifle kit with all of the other parts for $465. That puts you into a rifle for $525 plus shipping/tax. You also need a mag and maybe a rear sight, but it is a budget way to get in the door. Del-ton also seems to make decent stuff. Midgrade. Not the best, but certainly not junk either. They do cut corners, don't kid yourself, but for $525 there are going to be a few things skipped over. Still, I ran a Del-ton kit for a few years and had no problems and found the accuracy to be pretty good. At this price it competes well with the Mini.

The Mini is a decent rifle as well. If it's a rifle you really like, I won't try to talk you out of it. I wouldn't buy one used, at least without getting a great deal and probably a range session before the purchase. If you are shooting for fun, any of them should do fairly well. The AR has more potential down the line to turn into something more, but for today, either should be a blast at the range.

 

[kimberkid]

To add to the confusion, here are a few of my favorites ... for whatever reason I never liked the Mini-14

​

I still need an FN C, FN FS2000, SCAR, Beretta AR-70 ... the Galil, Valmet are good AK variant ...

 

[Smaug]

You can consistently hit a paper plate with an SKS at 300 yards. It's much harder to find a good example now that it once was but they're out there.

I doubt it. Mine sure couldn't. At 100 yards, maybe. Mine was a Yugo that seemed to have spend more time in storage than in action.

 

[jpwilly]

This DPMS 20" Bull Barrel Upper has been top notch. Shoots 1/3"-3/4" groups at 100yrds depending on ammo (and the nut behind the trigger). I installed a 2 stage RRA NM Trigger it's much better than the stock trigger. This rig minus optic was only $850

 

[Jarrettrocksvt]

Saiga .223 is less than $400, built on the AK platform, reliable and tougher than wang leather.

Somehow saiga 223's get overlooked. 400 new, built by IZMASH in russia. I bought one used recently and would rather shoot it than the M&P15T.
OP, the saiga is a russian built AK platform 5.56 rifle. AK durability, AK accuracy (<2"groupings at 100 yards aren't uncommon). Hog hunting at 300 yds? i would get a saiga for 400 for plinking, pick up a mosin nagant (120bucks, bolt action russian rifle) for the hog. 520 dollar solution and you won't regret either. Both rifles will be around to give to your grandkids.

 

[Chris Rhines]

4" groups, offhand, at 200 yards? With an SKS? An SKS is a 3-4MOA rifle at best. That's it. Hitting a paper plate at 300 yards from prone is probably doable, although you won't get it every time unless you're both very lucky and very steady. 4" at 200 yards offhand? Not possible.

Back to the topic - get a name brand AR, avoid Bushmaster/RRA/DPMS/parts guns, keep it lubed, shoot it a lot.

-C

 

[benzy2]

Jeff, I don't see your group as .01". I've put it on OnTarget, and it doesn't measure .01". I get anywhere from .05" to .075", depending on how generous or not you get with it. That isn't to say that wasn't a great 4 shot run, but it isn't .01" either. If it were my group, this is how I would have measured it using OnTarget, both with and without the other shot.

 

[1stmarine]

Ar's are nice everyone should have at least two. One carbine and one rifle length with a match barrel. For starters also consider the keltec SU-16 CA. That is a great carbine at a good price. This post might help you...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=559476

I will create another post soon for some of the AR's I have like this one in 6mmx45mm I am working on now...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=564287

Cheers,
E.

 

[Good&Fruity]

AR or AK. DON'T Get a Ruger Mini-14.

 

[benzy2]

Please, look at the single shot on its own and how it measures compared to the circle, then look at how you measure your group. The single shot has plenty of white around the edges of the grease mark inside the circle. Your group has none. Your group actually has grease mark outside the measuring circles, which again, the single shot has none. You can click the same spot and ignore the target if you like, but that isn't an accurate reading the way you measure. I didn't photoshop anything. I took a screen shot of my OnTarget measurements, cropped them to size in paint, and then hosted them. No Voodoo. No magic. Here I measured a different way. I changed the bullet size until it fit into the inner white of the single hole. This way I line up the outer edge of the bullet circle with the inner edge of the grease mark and can ignore having to line up with the outer edge of the grease mark. Here is what I got from that measurement:

I'm not out to prove you wrong. You keep making extreme claims. This claim can be tested. I decided to test it to see if you were shooting these extreme claims. My findings say you aren't. I don't have anything against you. I don't spend my life trying to disprove you. All I wanted to know was if one of your many extreme claims live up to its statement or not. I didn't resize the image or play with the settings. I opened OnTarget, opened the image as it is sized on this website from you, and ran measurements a few different ways, none of which agree with your claims. throw insults if you want. I have nothing to say about you or your personality. I will say I find this group to be a completely different size than you state. None of this is to say you can't shoot or that the 4 shots weren't a tight group. Even with the 5th shot it is a nice group. I'm not questioning if you have the ability to shoot a rifle well.

 

[shadow9]

>.< JEFF, BENZY, ON TARGET.
As in stay with OP's predicament please...it's why we(me) clicked on this link. That's a cool comparison, I'm glad you're getting technical, but PrivMessaging has image-insertion features too. It's why it's there.

That said, I'd strongly avoid a Mini-14. Granted, they're not known for accuracy, I'm sure it's Improving, but I've shot one, and honestly, they're great for short range plinking, and that's about it.
A long-term, expandable, one-rifle .223 chassis pretty much sums up the AR-series. That said, I'd go AUG before AR, but I'm also a SteyrSnob... ;P
You mentioned hog-hunting out to 300 yards? Honestly, from perusing knowledge alone (never went hog-hunting), they're hardy little things that are best engaged at closer-range. A .223 may not have the punch to drop one at that range.
Again, never been hog hunting, only what I've read. Someone correct me if otherwise.

HOWEVER - Does a Mini-14 have the ability to pop two pins and swap out the bolt, barrel, BCG and all necessities with a 800-yd capable 6.5 barrel/setup, or even a .50cal? Didn't think so.
These are the advantages of going with an AR platform. Plus, if you build it, you are building it to YOUR specs, and like building a kit-car, you will know what every grind, click, tap, shift, and slide movement going on between face and fingers is. It's a whole new realm of "personal" with your gun.
When not shooting it? Tinker, save up for new parts, get all the tacticool accessories, wear a black outfit and watch your favorite action movie or zombie flick, hell maybe even act out a part or two in it!

Besides, there's a MASSIVE community (aka assistance) of AR people. Welcome to AmeRica. (spelled intentionally)

 

[Art Eatman]

The Mini is fine for casual plinking and defense. It's as good as any other .223 for coyote or jackrabbit hunting. Older models are not good for tight groups from the benchrest beyond the first three or so, as a generality. Newer models are better, and various improvements can be made, but by and large the Mini is not a target rifle.

I never had any problem with the old B-Square scope mount to hold the K4 in place during several years of use as a truck gun on rough jeep trails.

 

[millertyme]

www.colemantyler.com has ORC 16"M4 uppers uppers on PlumCrazy lowers for $550. I don't know if CMMG still has that good of deals in their bargain bin, but that's a great deal on a decent AR at a new Mini price.

 

[benzy2]

Are the plumcrazy lowers the polymer ones? I know it isn't a high stress part, but id still rather a metal lower, especially with what some uppers weigh.

 

[1stmarine]

Polymers are fine. The question is I heard both great stories about plum crazy and horror stories as well. The keltec is proven.

 

[benzy2]

Not that there is anything wrong with a properly designed polymer, just that I've seen some busted polymer AR lowers. I'm not sure in this situation it is properly designed.

 

[nccavediver]

Daewoo

 

[henschman]

I honestly see no reason to go with a Mini 14 over an AR. The only thing it used to have on the AR was price, but now that's not even true anymore. If you really can't afford more than a $400 rifle, get a Saiga. If you can afford $600 or more, get an AR.

Del Ton makes a pretty good starter rifle if you want something on the cheap end that will get you shooting, and can be upgraded later if you decide it needs it.

If you want to go even cheaper, build your own lower and put an upper assembly from Del Ton on it. They are nice because you can order custom upper assemblies with all the options you want. http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Barrel_Assemblies_Custom_Barrel_Assemblies_s/180.htm