Which Dillon would be best

[Bayou1535]

Finally got my bench completed and have been pouring through threads/topics for the last several weeks about presses and which to buy. I know everyone dreads/dislikes color comparisons but i want to make the right choice. Maybe I can't make mind up and frankly I want to be sure since of the money involved. First let me state what I will be reloading for 9, 40, 45, 223 and 308 (just got a 1919A4 semi, some 22-250 for kicks and yotes)and maybe some 357 for a revolver. I also plan on making another class 3 purchase which will need 9 or 223 rounds, many. I first started out thinking nothing but a 650 w/caseffeder or a LNL w/case feeder but now I am opening up my mind to a 550 due to caliber conversion costs and mainly would only need 3 shell plates and a couple different funnels and locator pins. It seems it would be easier to go single stage w/550 until I get proffeciant, not sure if I could do that with a 650. Of course the 550 would be cheaper since I would not get a case feeder and its about 125 cheaper, but this will be a purchase for the long run and I don't want to scrounge now to be sorry later. I like the idea of the case feeder because the 550 seems busy with the movements and I would only have to load bullets. In all reality I would be shooting probably 500-750 rounds of 223, 500 rounds of 308, don't know how much 45, 500 rounds for my pistols and subgun or rdias (haven't decided yet), in all reality probably 1,500 rounds combined a month. The amounts can change depending on several factors as you know, probably will get a 22 kit for the NFA item. Would also like to try out some USPSA or IDPA, not educated in these yet but looks like fun. Looking at the dillons mainly due to supply and longevity issues with LNL but between the 550 and 650 I don't want a few bucks stop me from getting what I would end up with. Maybe the 550 is all I need, just seems simpler not having to handle the brass with a 650.

 

[X-Rap]

I went with the 550 over 20 yrs ago and now have 2. I also have a couple single stage for loading calibers in smaller quantities.
Keep it clean and it will be near flawless.

 

[GW Staar]

Too bad you only see blue. Of the two the 650 is more versatile with 5 stations, but for sure you need the case feeder, or you have to insert cases and bullets from opposite sides. When I was making the choice as you are, the Dillon 650 and RCBS Pro 2000 made it to the last cut. The biggest gripe I have for the Dillon is caliber change speed unless you spend the bucks for multiple powder measures. You are wanting to reload a bunch of calibers on one press, right? The other gripe was the primer system. After priming with tubes for more than 25 years, I do love RCBS's faster and safer primer system.

With caliber changes, Hornady is faster than the Dillon 650, but the RCBS Pro 2000 is a lot faster and easier than either.

BTW, the Hornady bullet feeder has a way faster caliber change than any case feeder (or other brands of bullet feeders), plus it is more trouble free than Hornady's buggy case feeder.

I load 7 calibers and change them on my Pro 2000 often, because its so simple to do. Even primer-size change takes less than a minute, with only the primer rod to unscrew and replace. I added a Hornady bullet feeder and it didn't slow down caliber changes hardly at all....really happy with it.

Hopefully Hornady will get their supply problems with that product ironed out soon. I was lucky and had the feeder and dies that I wanted delivered last November. It's been fun. Good luck with your search. The best thing is all the brands are top quality....its just the features to fit your style of reloading to.

 

[mcofboise]

Go Blue!

First let me state what I will be reloading for 9, 40, 45, 223 and 308 , some 22-250 and maybe some 357 for a revolver.

You raise an obviously contentious subject in this group; I have to remind myself occasionally that as passionate as I may be in my beliefs, someone with a differing view is equally passionate in theirs and we quite proabably are going to have to coexist never agreeing.
That said, I'll offer up my opinions. I'm a known Dillon zealot. I have zero experience with the Hornady tool. Mine is a 450, the predecessor to the 550 and 650 line. It's been in *constant* use since 1984. I've never upgraded mine beyond automatic primer and powder feeds. No interchangeable toolheads, no automatic indexing. I have a bit of experience with a buddy's 650 with casefeeder.
I actually like manual indexing vs. auto. Same principles apply for me regarding case and bullet feeding. I think it satisfies my OCD with the more hands-on, up close and personal routine. I pay more attention to detail in the process. Auto-index can poop out more rounds per hour, but with good staging of components, I can't sneeze at the 400-500 rph rate I can crank out. I also think when something goes awry on the autos, it's more time consuming and complicated to reconcile. Obviously, I'm a simple person; simpler seems better. I started with single stage reloading long before a progressive entered my picture. My buddy started with the 650 and knows no differently. He is as completely satisfied with his process as I am with mine. And I will admit that he loads all of our 9mm because some of the tedium of that small round seems to reconcile itself on his press.
Because I'm basically cheap, I've never upgraded to the removeable toolheads because there are ways to ease the pain of caliber conversion without the expense or storage bulk of preset toolheads. The Dillon powder measure can be a pain in the ass for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is setting the drop. I have 4 powder slides for mine, 2 each of large and small, one is permanently set to drop for my .223 load, one for .45 ACP (my 2 highest volume rounds), and then one each for the other dozen or so calibers I load. I do need to order a couple more. Powder dies at $10 apiece can be dedicated to caliber specific settings using locking die rings, then just screw on to the press, drop in the powder funnel and attach the measure with the correct slide inserted. I've watched my buddy do caliber changes with extra toolheads on the 650. My way takes an insignificant amount of extra time, and costs a pile less.
I have personal issues with reloading rifle cartridges larger than .223 on my progressive, so do most of my 22-250, .308, .30-'06 on the Rock Chucker. Some of that has to do with quantities involved being on the small side, some is the issue of the non-metering powders I use, some with sticking cases in resizing dies and either tearing the rims off or breaking the shell plate (it was an old, well-used plate and Dillon replaced it for free, even though it was my fault and I offered to pay). The .308 and I have come to terms and the chosen load works flawlessly on the Dillon now. If I ever find a ball powder load for the 22-250 that shoots as well as my current one, I will happily load it on the Dillon. But rifle calibers for me need to be sized/deprimed in a separate step from the rest of the process so I can measure and trim first, so that's a single stage process anyway. Then they go back to the Dillon with no sizing die for primer, powder, bullet, crimp. I bit the bullet for Dillon carbide sizer for the .223 and literally all my real frustrations ended with loading that caliber. If .308 quantity ever escalates (like a new AR platform maybe ), I'll pay the price for that die as well. I figure that kind of expense is more justified than for toolheads, extra powder measures, casefeeders and all the accoutrements that, to me, seem nice but unnecessary to accomplish the task.
Finally, (you thought I'd never say that) Dillon has NEVER allowed me to pay for replacement parts, though I always offer to pay, in the 27 years I've spent trying to break this thing. They have completely replaced the powder measure system and the priming system that I quite literally wore out, as well as stupid things like springs that had no more to give. To be fair, other companies in the shooting industry have acted in kind (Ruger recently offered me an entire new stock for my M77, rather than sell me a $2 sling stud. No joke), but I get the feeling the guys at Dillon do it with a sly smile.
IMHO, you would be completely satisfied with either the 550 or 650.
Now, we will hear from the Red Team.

 

[Bayou1535]

I have watched enough caliber change outs on the 650 on youtube and that doesn't seem like to big of a issue like its made out to be. If it took me 20 minutes to change everything I still don't think that its bad or would sway my opinion of the two. I know that I would not be sitting down to crank out 1000-2000 rounds but would pobably be around 500-750. I'm pretty sure I read you can disengage something on the 650 to run it like 550, I can see that aiding when learning the ropes and adjusting powderI don't plan on getting complete change outs but plan on getting seperate toolheads, powder die and bar and just use one powder measure. I don't plan on getting complete change outs but plan on getting seperate toolheads, powder die and bar and just use one powder measure. Should be roughly $134 unless I'm forgetting something for the 650 and $98 for the 550 .

 

[cavman]

I have the 650. I have heard that the LNL is a super good machine and probably preferable if you are doing a bunch of calibers.

However, if you are going to have separate tool heads for your different calibers anyways (as I also do) the Dillon 650 is a terrific option.

 

[MtnCreek]

I would suggest getting a turret press to learn to load on. IMO, there's just too many things going on with a progressive press. A turret press likely also serve as a great piece of support equipment when you go progressive.

The 650 is not single stage friendly, mainly due to the priming system. The cal conversions are not hard, but do take a little time and tweeking. Toolheads for each cal will make things go much quicker. The 650 is designed for speed and does a good job at that; IMO it is efficent w/ 2,000 to 3,000 rd plus runs less than that and you're likely better off going another route.

Setting up a 650 for all the cals you mentioned will be costly; I'd pick a couple and add on as I went. Mr. Boise speaks the truth: carbide dies for rifle cases on a progressive is worth the additional cost IMO. You still have to lube, but it makes the whole operation go much smoother (including reduced vibration in the powder drop).

I know a couple of guys w/ 500's, but I've never ran one. They look like fine machines.

 

[Garage Dog]

I would suggest getting a turret press to learn to load on. IMO, there's just too many things going on with a progressive press. A turret press likely also serve as a great piece of support equipment when you go progressive.

I fully agree with this statement. I'm new to reloading and as such a friend of mine with a 650 let me come by his house and showed me how to reload 38 sp. This was the first time I ever even laid eyes on reloading equipment. He showed me how everything worked and stayed right with me while loaded 400 rounds. This turned out to be a very good thing. I too was thinking of a 550 or 650, but after thinking about it on the way home I new this was not the press for me. It is far to complex for a beginner IMHO, at least it was for me and I'm no slouch when it comes to mechanical stuff. Reloading mistakes can be serious! After lots of research I settled on the Lee Classic Turret kit from Kemp gun shop. I love this press. It is simple to use and can be used as a single stage or auto index. So far I've loaded about 500 rounds and every one has gone bang so far.

Maybe someday I'll buy a 650, but not until I get a lot more loads under my belt.

 

[joed]

I'm a Dillon fan but I wouldn't mind owning another make of press. Even though I'm a fan of the Dillon I'd try something else if I felt it was as good. I've owned a 550 and still own a 650 and 1050.

I started with the 550 and it was a good press to start out with. I had one complaint with it and I sold it because of that. I give this advice to anyone buying a progressive no matter which brand, make sure it has an extra station for a powder check die. The 550 did not have the extra station. Without this option sooner or later you're going to get into trouble without this option.

My 550 worked flawlessly for 2 years then started giving me squibs. This was right at the time I picked up a used 1050. When I saw how well the powder check die worked in the 1050 I packed up the 550 and sold it ordering a 650.

I've done a lot of different cartridges on my Dillons. The conversion kits aren't cheap but they work well. I'm satisfied with the two Dillons I have. If I had to keep only one though it would be the 1050. This press is even faster then I can go and it is flawless in operation.

The 650 is a good press and outside of adjustments has never given me problems. I use the 650 for small primer rounds and the 1050 for large primer.

I have had to call Dillon a few times to ask questions but I'd bet no more then 3 times in 10 years. Never had to send a press back either, they are well built and tested.

Biggest problem I see with Hornady is everyone seems to have priming problems. I don't know why, but I've never had any problems on the Dillons.

Caliber changes on the 550 were quick. I'd say it may take 10 minutes to change over. The 650 takes a little longer maybe 15 or 20 minutes. The 1050 takes about 30 minutes to change to another cartridge, but once you're done you get to move along at a rate of about 1200 rounds an hour.

Reality with the 550 is probably 350 rounds an hour, the 650 is a little faster getting me about 400 to 500 rounds an hour.

I don't buy the "get a turret press" to learn on. I looked at the turret when I bought a progressive. At the time I was reloading 300 rounds a week and I needed something to cut down my reloading time. The progressive did in a few hours what was taking me 2 days on a single stage. A turret press doesn't save much time and you still have to set up all the stations.

What ever you decide on make sure you have one extra station for a powder check die. I can't stress this advice enough.

 

[joed]

I'll add an extra note on reloading rifle cartridges on the Dillon progressives.

I prefer a single stage press for most of my rifle cartridges. That is because most of my rifle cartridges use powders like IMR4350 which might be a pain in a progressive measure.

The trick to reloading cartridges on a progressive is finding the right powder that the powder measure likes. I've done tons of .223 on my progressives using H335. I could probably do .22-250 using a powder that flowed through the measure well. H380 would most likely fill the bill here.

I'll admit I've never tried IMR4350 in the Dillon measures. It may work, I just never tried it. My reason for not trying it on the progressive is I usually don't load large numbers of rifle cartridges.

A progressive shines when you want volume. And to anyone that says the quality from a single stage is better . . . well, I'd put any ammo I made on the progessive up against anything you loaded on a single stage.

 

[Win1892]

Everyone needs a single stage for short batches of something, so learn on it. Make mistakes one at a time without the added frustration of 5 things happening all at once.

Then buy the 650, the case feeder, low powder sensor, and whatever options you would like to have. Cheap for a tool that will last a lifetime.

 

[EddieNFL]

If it took me 20 minutes to change everything I still don't think that its bad or would sway my opinion of the two

.

If I clean as I go, 20 minutes would give me enough time to take a break.

The 550 can be used as a single stage...not so much the 650, but it wasn't designed with that in mind. I use my single stage whenever I need a single stage.

A turret press is a good choice unless you plan to load mass quantities of a single caliber.

Owning both red and blue, if could have only one I would be happy with either. But given a choice, I would go blue.

 

[hydraulicman]

Get yourself a 550 . If you have a rifle caliber you might want to weigh every charge you can do it. Just use a powder threw expanding die like the one lee makes . put it inplace of the powder measure. and ta da. your loading speed is way faster than a single stage and you can have dead on powder charges.

then you can put the dillon measure back on and crank out some .45 or whatever

 

[RustyFN]

With that many calibers I would go with the 550. It will still load plenty fast and you will save a lot on caliber conversions.

 

[rfwobbly]

I find that reloading machines are a lot like vehicles in that they are optimized for a particular market segment. If you were a well-to-do builder you might be able to afford a Mercedes, but you'd look pretty silly loading 50 concrete block into one. It's not because you can't do it, and it's not because Mercedes doesn't make a fine vehicle. It's because it's not really designed for that type service. And so it is with the Dillon machines. They are simply optimized for specific types and volumes of ammo.

If you are sold on a Dillon, then the ups and downs/ ins and outs are all explained very clearly on the Brian Enos web page. That's also the best place to purchase one too.

 

[Bayou1535]

The calibers that I listed is what I would like to reload for. I probably would only reload for 9, 40, 223, 308 and probably 45. The 22-250 is something that I don't shoot much and would probably get a SS or just buy for, don't shoot it much just yotes. The 357 doesn't get shot just sits in the safe, the primary would be 9, 223 and 308. I could mainly load for the 9 and 223, so really that would be right around 2 pistol and 2 rifle. You guys know how it is when you start out, it's like being a 3 year old and walking into TOYS-R-US. I like the 650 because of the added safety of lock out die/powder check system and case feeder. The 550 seems more economical and probably the better machine for myself but I tend to over buy when its something I like or like to do.

 

[MtnCreek]

I like the 650 because of the added safety of lock out die/powder check system

The powder check is designed to alert you if the powder charge is way off (little to no powder or double charge). It's a great tool and I suggest using one if possible; just don't depend on them to work. Kinda like crossing railroad tracks; the signal isn't flashing, but I still look both ways before crossing.

 

[Bayou1535]

I would still check visually just like the idea of having that option.

 

[DM~]

Here's another vote for learning on a single stage first. You will want one later on anyway...

DM

 

[Steve Koski]

Two words: Lee Loadmaster

Koski

 

[northark147]

I like my 550. I reload .380, 9mm, .38, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, .223, 6.8, 300 AAC Blkout, .308 Win, and 7.62x54 on it. I do have a single stage I use for decapping rifle rounds. I have a tool head for every caliber, but only 4 powder measures. I leave one set for .223, 6.8, and 9mm which I use the most of, and use the other one for other calibers other than .308 for which I always hand weigh each charge. I see no use for a powder check die, my bench has good lighting. If I don't see what looks to be the correct amount of powder when I go to seat a bullet, I don't. Dillon Measures seem to work fine with Benchmark and Varget, Always dead on when I double check with the scale. Maybe because I use the Dillon Scale, it is in cahoots with the press and lies to make its buddy look good, but I have had no squibs or big bangs so I doubt it. I am able to turn out about 400 an hour for pistol, and 200 an hour for rifle including decapping on single stage, swaging military crimps, Trimming with a Lee lockstud trimmer, and tumbling to remove lube before doing the rest on the 550. My only complaint with the 550 is occasionally the auto primer likes to act up.

I can't say anything about the 650, Don't own one, have only used one a few times. Can only say I see no reason to pay the extra for one from the few times I have used it. I guess I did learn on a single stage. I learned as a child, but by the time I decided to start doing it myself, I barely remembered anything, and I had no problem getting running with the 550 with no mishaps. My best friend and his son also both learned on my 550 without issue. I didn't have the single stage for decapping until earlier this year when I bought a bunch of once fired lake city and got tired of emptying the primer system to decap it.

 

[joed]

Bayou1535, you have the right idea. Start out with what you'll load the most and then add from there.

I'm still of the opinion that every progressive should have a powder check. I always visually checked powder on the 550, but out of 20,000 rounds you will miss some. The piece of mind you get with the check die is worth the price.

I find I stil visually check the powder but now I look at the rod on the check die, much easier to see.

You can load all those cartridges you want to, you'll just have to find a powder the measure likes for rifle. More then likely it won't like coarse powders. I did thousands of .223 on mine with never an issue. I'm willing to bet .308 and .22-250 will be the same.

 

[glockky]

Nice thread i have been looking at these presses too but i just can figure out tho whole plague with the hornady. Some people love it and other claim they will not prime right. I just cant see how hornady couldnt tell u how to fix it. Is there CS that bad?

 

[High Altitude]

Most likely it is a manufacturing QC issue that Hornady is having.

 

[rfwobbly]

The calibers that I listed is what I would like to reload for. I probably would only reload for 9, 40, 223, 308 and probably 45. The 22-250 is something that I don't shoot much and would probably get a SS or just buy for, don't shoot it much just yotes. The 357 doesn't get shot just sits in the safe, the primary would be 9, 223 and 308. I could mainly load for the 9 and 223, so really that would be right around 2 pistol and 2 rifle. You guys know how it is when you start out, it's like being a 3 year old and walking into TOYS-R-US.

If you'll read the sources I quoted, you'll see the 650 is for those people loading pistol or rifle by the thousands.

I like the 650 because of the added safety of lock out die/powder check system and case feeder.

Safety is in the user and the process they use, not some add-on hardware.

The 550 seems more economical and probably the better machine for myself but I tend to over buy when its something I like or like to do.

Well, this is a lot like buying too much car. Would you really buy a new Vet to drive 3 miles to work and park in a crowded parking lot where you'll have 100 paint dings within 3 months? There is such a thing as "too much of a good thing".