Which lever action rifle?

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krider

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Hi everybody,

I bought an Uberti 1873 24" rifle in .357mag a couple of months ago. I'm not happy with the week '73 construction which doesn't allow me to shoot .357mag a lot. Also the the carrier doesn't work well with most of the shorter .38special ammo.

I'm just shooting on 50 yard targets, no competition whatsoever. So I was wondering if a Winchester or Marlin 20" carbine would be the better choice for me.

I like the 1873 design but I guess the other brands also have that problem with .357mag? Would a Winchester 1892 or Marlin Cowboy 1894 be the better choice?
I guess the risk of OAL problems with .38special can never be eliminated because it depends on the specific rifle.

Best regards from Germany
krider
 
I can only compare the Winchester and Marlin for you. Henry, Rossi, and a few others also make decent levers.
The Marlins seem to have smoother operation and from my experience feed much more smoothly.
Uberti is generally considered a TOP choice.
 
In .357 magnum, a Winchester 1892 (or a clone like the Rossi) will be better than the 1873. While I really like the 73 (I have 3 versions of this - - - none in .357) the reality is the toggle link receiver was a comparatively weak design. Winchester adapted it to longer cartridges with the 1876 model, then abandoned toggle designs altogether in 1886 with the introduction of Browning's 1886 rifle.

I'm sure Uberti makes its 357 version of the 73 well. I myself am verrrry leery of them. I've seen one at a local store. It was a nice rifle but I passed. My 73s are a .44-40 saddle ring carbine, a.45 Colt short rifle & .45 Colt Long rifle. The toggle-link design is stronger than its most ardent detractors claim, but by the time you get into modern MAGNUM calibers, I am much happier with the Browning 1892 or Marlin 1894 design.

It's not surprising that your 73 has problems with shorter .38s. The taper or angle at the bottom of the lifter was never really meant to handle more than overall all length of the cartridge. The thing is, some 1892 designs also have problems with shorter cartridges. I have one .357 magnum rifle, a Marlin 1894 Cowboy, and it seems to like both magnum and .38SP equally, as far as feeding is concerned.

With 1892 Winchesters it helps to try out the actual rifle. I will say the ones I've heard with problems feeding .38special seem to be older guns.

If you can find a nice Marlin 1894, or Win. 1892 snag it quick!!!
 
I regard Uberti as being a maker of really good products, but have no personal experience with their rifles. Are the Uberti copies of the 1873 really too weak for .357 Magnum? Does your 1873 actually have problems feeding .38 Special?

I like the Miroku-made copy of the Winchester 1892, as marketed in the USA with the Browning label. More recently, these have been marketed in the USA with the Winchester label.

My wife has had bad luck, with the ammunition feeding cycle, in her late-1990s Rossi copy of the 1892. I would avoid Rossi, unless one is willing to do diligent research, and/or is willing to pay a gunsmith who truly understands Rossi products.

Tentatively, our two samples of the Winchester 94 AE seem to be quite good, though we have yet to test them with meaningful sample quantities of ammunition, and they are .45 Colt, not .357 Magnum.
 
Rossi quality has improved a lot since being produced by Braztech. I've read that they reliably feed 38 Spcl as well as magnum loads, with the exception of wadcutters, which I think are too short for any brand lever gun to feed reliably. You probably won't find a smoother running lever than a Henry.
 
My Marlin 1894 .357 has happily run all .357 and .38 Special (no wadcutters) I’ve tried in it, and is a delight to carry as well.
 
I only have experience with a Braztech Rossi R92 in .38 spl / .357 magnum and the Henry Big Boy Steel in .38 spl / .357 magnum. I had many problems with the Rossi. I did a Steve Gunz action job and changed many of the springs. Also refinished the stock. That made it a lot better but it would still not feed factory .357 ammo (too long). I do hand load, so I would make my .357 rifle ammo with a shorter OAL and the rifle would function without problem. A few years later, I purchased the Henry Big Boy Steel. Fantastic rifle. Good walnut stock, American made throughout, smooth action and feeds .38 spl or .357 magnum without problem. Sold my Rossi.
I must admit that I am biased. I currently own 6 Henry lever action rifles (from .22LR to .45-70). I have used Henry customer service one time with the .45-70. In my experience Henry and Ruger have the best customer service.
Many of the new Henry rifles now have a loading gate - mine are older and none have the a loading gate. I have no experience with Winchester or Marlin lever guns.
 
I have both a Miroku/Winchester and a Uberti 1873 in 38spl/357mag. I've had no issues at all between factory loaded .357s with an OAL
of 1.58 inch down to my own 38spl hand loads with an OAL of 1.425 to 1.430 inch. I've always thought that the straight vertical lifter on the modern made 1873s is more forgiving of the OAL due to the chamfered edges on the front of the lifter where the cartridge enters when the lifter is lined up with the magazine. Of course, when one is feeding a shorter cartridge, it allows the next round in the magazine to enter the lifter slightly. Then, the chamfered edges allow the base of that next cartridge to be forced back out of the lifter as it raises.

However, I don't believe the angled lifter in the 92 actions can incorporate a feature like this, so it's less forgiving.

I do also have an older Rossi R92 made when they were still stamped made by Amadeo Rossi before Taurus got involved to form Braztech. I picked it up in a local FTF on the cheap and it seems to feed both rounds listed above. Being older, its action seemed well broken in when I got it.

That said, I have noticed that if you go to the Winchester website, and look up their Miroku made model 92's in 357mag, you will notice that unlike their model 73s, the model 92 is not listed as handling the dual rounds,i.e., no 38spl. Unless this is just an error, I take it to mean that the shorter cartridge was purposely left off for their model 92s---meaning if it works--great, but if not they aren't going to take a hit claiming that it does.

Cheers

edited to fix my OALs--Ieft off an inch--LOL
 
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I don't recall having any feeding issues or any issues actually with an older Marlin 1894C. It feeds 38 and 357 just fine. Only problem I had was it only held 9 rounds in the tube and many stages required 10 with the chamber empty. I can't remember if I ever got it to hold ten with shorter over all length rounds. I'd have loved to have had it in .44 but that was what was available at the time.
 
The ‘92 action is quite strong and should handle full bore .357 Mag without issue. Miroku makes a very good looking rifle for Winchester. No idea of their availability in .357 Mag. Rossi makes a much more economical version of the ‘92, the R92. They are available in .357 Mag. People have had issues feeding 38 Special in them - presumably the shorter OAL is an issue. I had one briefly and had feeding issues in both 38 and 357, but that seems the exception rather than the rule. I have on in 45LC, a 16” trapper. Great little rifle. Needed the Steve’s Gunz slick-up, stoning the load gate, and deleting the hideous safety.

If I wanted a rifle I was going to treat well and wanted to admire, I’d look for a Mirokuchester. If I wanted one that was going to get some hard use, the Rossi.
 
My first Rossi .357 (a 20” I bought in the mid 1990’s) looked amazing... wouldn’t feed any ammo worth a lick even after being worked on by a CAS-recommended gunsmith (Walker ‘47).

I sent it packing with no regrets.

My current Rossi 92 is a 16” Braztech version. It looks rather plain but feeds .357/.38 SWC, RN and JHP loads really well. I upgraded a few things ala Steve’s Gunz and used his dvd to show me how to lighten the extractor spring (it was so strong the extractor would chew up cartridge rims every time).

My high school-age dream was a Browning B-92 .44... maybe someday. (I have an 1894 trapper .44 but it’s a bit clunky for the stubby magnum round.)

Stay safe.
 
+1 Henry. They're great if available in germany.
When it was time for me to buy a 357 mag rifle I went with ruger 77/357, not a lever action but will feed anything and is plenty strong . just depends what you're doing with it. For my needs the little bolt action was just what I needed, I have several lever actions that use rifle ammo but just the one pistol caliber carbine. I will add a Henry in 45 colt soon though . good luck
 
Why does the "weak 1873 action" BS continue to perpetuate itself in the 21st century? Do you guys really think manufacturers like Uberti and Miroku would build and sell rifles that weren't capable of handling the cartridges for which they are chambered?? Every firearm built by Uberti (as well as all C.I.P. member manufacturers) is proofed at 1.3X the maximum average pressure of the cartridge, which means rifles and revolvers built by Uberti and chambered in .357 are proofed at 3900 bar, or over 56,000 psi. Do you really think any American commercial ammunition loaded to SAAMI specs (35,000 psi max) is going to faze an 1873 Uberti?

@krider I don't know what kind of .38 ammunition you're shooting, but I shot a few CAS matches with a borrowed 1873 Uberti .357 and it fed .38's like **** through the proverbial goose. When I got my own equipment, I bought a '92 Rossi in .357. When I loaded .38 Special's for it, I had to seat the bullet long so the cartridges would feed correctly. @forward observer is correct, the toggle link actions are extremely forgiving with regards to overall cartridge length, so long as the cartridges aren't longer than the carrier.

So buy some .357 ammunition and enjoy your rifle.

Oh and yes, I owned one of the Uberti .44 Magnums which was a fine rifle.

GXkFdl4l.jpg

The only reason I sold it was the limit on cartridge o.a.l.

35W
 
I have owned a couple Marlin 1894s, a Winchester 94 Trails End and a Rossi 92 .45 Colt. I currently use one of the newer Marlin 1894CB .357/.38 rifles in Cowboy Action Shooting and I love it. It feeds everything I put through it in .38 Special and .357 Magnum. I can handle fast cycling and slow cycling without any issues at all. I bought it in early 2019. The gun was made at the end of 2018. I am pretty sure Marlin got their bugs worked out after the Remington move.

Regarding my Rossi 92, I might use one as a boat oar if I didn’t have an oar available. It was as too sensitive to cartridge length and it seemed like I was always fiddling with it to get it running right. One day I had enough and sold it. I will not own another.

Since you didn’t mention Cowboy Action I am assuming that you are just looking for a reliable accurate shooter. I would recommend the Marlin 1894 and the Henry as well. I do not own one but my friends that do really like them. It’s not a fast cycling gun so CAS shooters don’t use them much, but lever guns aren’t just for CAS, right?
 
Howdy

Yes, all Italian made rifles are proofed for the cartridge they are chambered for in government run proof houses. This will include the toggle action rifles, such as the Uberti 1860 Henry and replicas of the 1866 and 1873 Winchesters. And yes, European proofing standards are a bit more stringent than American proofing standards, so no Italian made rifle will leave Italy without having been proofed.

HOWEVER...............proofing only involves firing one of two proof load cartridges in a firearm. If the firearm survives the proof test, the proof house signs off and stamps the firearm as being in proof. But there is such a thing as metal fatigue. It is completely possible for metal fatigue to set in with critical parts if many, many, many maximum pressure loads are fired in a firearm. This could eventually lead to failure.

Case in point. A number of years ago a friend of mine bought a used Uberti replica 1873 chambered for 357 Magnum. When he got it home he discovered a hairline crack in the frame. He brought it back to the store and got his money back. Yes, this was a used rifle, and there is no telling how many rounds, were fired in it, or how much pressure they generated. Perhaps one double charge of powder cracked the frame. Perhaps 999 standard pressure 357 Magnum rounds cracked the frame. There is no way of knowing. However that is the one experience I know of about a 357 Magnum Uberti 1873 that had to be returned because of a cracked frame.

Getting back to lever guns feeding specific ammunition. All tube fed lever guns (the pump guns too) have limitations on the length of cartridge they can feed. Generally speaking, there are two types of feed mechanisms. The toggle link rifles use a carrier that rides straight up and down in the frame. Cartridges are presented to the chamber in line with the chamber, much like a torpedo being stuffed into the torpedo tube in a submarine. All the others, the Winchester Model 1892 and its replicas, the Winchester Model 1894, and Marlin 1894 models use a pivoting carrier that pivots to raise a round from the magazine to the chamber. Very generally speaking, a cartridge shoved straight out of a carrier and into a chamber will be less troublesome than one which is feeding the cartridge into the chamber at an angle. Think about the problems sometimes encountered with a 1911 pistol feeding rounds up the ramp into the chamber.

Often bullet shape has something to do with this. A semi-wad cutter bullet can be more troublesome entering a chamber at an angle because the sharp shoulder of the bullet can sometimes catch on the edge of the chamber. Generally speaking, round nosed flat point bullets, and truncated cone bullets will be more reliable feeding up a tilted carrier because they do not present a corner to catch on the edge of the chamber.



The 357 Magnum Uberti 1873 is one of the most popular rifles in Cowboy Action Shooting, particularly with the top competitors. Most of these guys are shooting lightly loaded 38 Specials out of their rifles. Yes, any toggle link rifle can have a problem with ammunition that has a short Over All Length. There is no cartridge stop on the carrier of a toggle link rifle, the magazine spring pushes a round all the way onto the carrier, and the round stops on the rear face of the mortise in the frame. The magazine spring is also trying to push the next round in the magazine into the carrier and the only thing stopping it is the round already in the carrier. The shorter the round in the carrier, the more of the next round will be protruding into the bottom of the carrier. There is a bevel on the carrier that shoves the protruding round back into the magazine as the carrier rises. But if the round on the carrier is too short, the next round protrudes too far for the bevel to engage it, so the carrier is blocked from rising. I know for a fact that most of these CAS hot shots are shooting 38 Specials, not loaded down 357 Magnum length ammo in their rifles. Yes, there is a limit to how short a round can be reliably fed through a toggle link rifle, but I do not have the number at hand right now. Suffice it to say, if a round is too short, the carrier will be prevented from rising. An experienced CAS gunsmith can modify the carrier so it can be used with shorter ammo, but there is a practical limit to how much they can change the bevel.

Regarding the 1892 model; yes stronger than any toggle link rifle. And again, there is a limit to how short a round can be fed through one. And again, I do not have the number at hand.

The only lever gun I own chambered for 357 Magnum is an older Marlin 1894 carbine. My wife was shooting it when she was shooting cowboy with me because she did not like how heavy my full length rifles were. I was loading 38 Special ammunition with truncated cone bullets with an OAL of about 1.445 and the little Marlin never hesitated feeding them.
 
I've owned Rossi, Marlin and Winchester's.....I like them all!
I have found the Rossi's, whether 38 or 357, they offer a round bullet.
My SWC 38 loads will not feed and some HP are problematic as well.
In 45 Colt I never have and feeding issues with any of the Lever guns regardless of bullet design
 
I think that with the Rossi's it's kind of a hit-n-miss thing. Mine feeds everything just fine, (.357 SRC) but there's guys making $$$ selling videos on how to get them to work.

I suspect that the Rossi's just go down an assembly line, and are put together from parts, with perhaps a couple of dummy rounds run through them. I think the old Winchesters were given much hand fitting and tuning before going out the door. Probably the Winchester individual parts were more within specs/tolerance. The Rossi is a pretty good, faithful replica of the Winchester, (mine is "pre-safety") so there's nothing wrong with the design. I'm surprised to hear of Rossi's that are still troublesome after being tuned. ?
 
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