Which one to use?

[BlackSky]

Would you guys be more apt to use a .30-06 bolt with 220 grain bullet or a .45-70 lever with 325 grain bullet while black bear hunting? Assume the shot would be under 200 yards max.

 

[rcmodel]

I would use the 30-06 with a 165 or 180 grain bullet, or the 45-70 with a 405 grain bullet.

rc

 

[mbogo]

.30-06 with 180gr. controlled-expansion bullets. The 220gr. is of no interest to me.

mbogo

 

[dougwx12]

While none of those weight/caliber choices are my cup of tea, among your choices, either would be fine.

 

[dogsoldier0513]

I would use the 30-06 with a 165 or 180 grain bullet, or the 45-70 with a 405 grain bullet.

rc

+1 for the 405 gr. .45-70.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

My question is, why do people going for black bear load up for elephant? It's not THAT big of an animal. Hell on the Large side here in the lower 48 you are looking at 350 to 400 pounds. I've taken many with a little ole 30/30 and 150 grain core junk ammo. I mean there is nothing wrong with going with a big cartridge/bullet combo. But is it needed? No. Put a 150 grain well constructed bullet in the pocket and it will fall down dead rather quickly. Whatever cartridge you choose, do use a bonded bullet to make sure you get through that shoulder if you hit it there. Other than that, the 30.06 with a 180 grain would be more than enough smackum for a Blackie. No use putting your shoulder through the abuse of a 220 grain from the .06 or a 325 from the 45/70 unless that is just what you like to do.

 

[BlackSky]

Thanks for the advice guys. Out of curiosity how come you guys are picking the 180 instead of the 220 for .30-06? Just overkill or is there something else?

 

[Kachok]

220 gr is more of a moose/brown bear level of penatration. 180s should be more then enough for any black bear. Accubonds, Partitions, Fusion, or ultra-bonded core lock are your top picks IMHO

 

[BlackSky]

I read a thread on another forum about a black bear that absorbed 5 shots of .30-30 and 3 .41 Magnums before it went down. Made me think that maybe my .30-06 165gr GMX's might not be enough. The last thing I'd want to do is fight a bear or have to put a pound of lead in him.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Not many animals in the wild are going to fall down dead right there unless you get a CNS hit. We humans are very weak when it comes to taking punishment and die rather easily. Animals in the wild, on the other hand, can take a pretty good bit of punishment before they keel over. Now granted, seeing a Black Bear take 5 shots from a 30/30 I would have to be a bit on the skeptical side as far as shot placement on that story. I shot one out of around 20 killed with a 30/30 twice and that was only because it turned right to me right after the shot and I was on the ground. Followed up with one in the skull and it was dead right there. Was a pretty fat fella at around 300 (a little large for East Tennessee Bears) and I really didn't feel like joining him in the "hurt locker". Other than that one, one shot was all that was needed. Whoever shot that one 5 times with a 30/30 then 3 with the .41 obviously was not a skilled marksman and most definitely wasn't placing his rounds where they needed to be. Those 165 grain GMX's should do all you need to do to old blackie. If your rifle shoots them well then just place one where it is supposed to go and be confident that it will do the job as long as you do yours. Good luck and have fun.

 

[Sunray]

"...black bear load up for elephant?..." My thought exactly. Whatever you use for deer will kill a black bear with no fuss.
"...absorbed 5 shots of .30-30 and 3 .41 Magnums..." It's about the bullet and more importantly, shot placement. Any bullet, placed poorly, won't matter.
A GMX is a Gilding metal construction, "Lead-free and California Compatible" bullet. Silly marketing nonsense. Yogi won't care what bullet kills him.

 

[rcmodel]

how come you guys are picking the 180 instead of the 220 for .30-06?

220 = 2,400 FPS - 2,800 ft/lb energy.
180 = 2,700 FPS - 2,950 ft/lb.
165 = 2,800 FPS - 2,872 ft/lb.

Either the 165, or the 180 spitzer will shoot flatter at long range then the 220 round nose, are in general more accurate, and will hit harder when it gets there.

Modern bonded bullets or controlled expansion bullets like the Nosler Partition or any number of other bullets now available will expand, stay together, and penetrate deeper then the old 220 RN soft point.

Due to advancments in bullets, the 220 RN has become almost obsolete.
For instance, Winchester doesn't even sell them anymore.

rc

 

[BlackSky]

Ok, assuming both of these rounds fired equally as well out of your gun which would you prefer for black bear?

Hornady 165gr GMX @ 2940fps/3166ftlb
Hornady 165gr SST @ 2960fps/3209ftlb
Hornady 180gr SST @ 2820fps/3178ftlb

Going by the numbers the 165gr SST seems to win that battle but is there any advantage to going with the more weight/mass of the 180?

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

If your gun will shoot the GMX accurately (some have been finding them not so good) then by all means use it. The SST, I have found, is great out of my 7mm.08 but I have been seeing that some people are having some problems out of the larger .30 calibre SST's holding together at close range out of the .30.06 and some magnums. I have never had a problem with that myself. The GMX is a solid so holding together and penetrating would not be an issue. I would go for a shoulder shot so I could make sure I hit some bone and get full expansion from it. Break down the shoulders, get you some heart and lung, and drag ole blackie home for a rug!!

 

[bucktail]

Ftlbs of energy doesn't kill stuff. Placing a bullet in the proper place and using a bullet that will hold together well enough to reach the far side of the ribcage are much more important. The 20 fps difference between the 2 165's is a hair under what the extreme spread in velocity will be for each, so they're as close as they're going to get. Construction is different though. 2900 fps is at the top end of speed that I'd run a cup and core bullet (that would be the SST). You'd probably be OK, but I'd use the GMX as my first choice. The GMX is a monometal controlled expansion bullet. You can drive it as fast as you want within reason without it coming apart.

If you want to run the SST, I wold run the 180. This does 2 things: It brings the muzzle velocity down closer to the center of the range that cup and core bullets work best, and it adds some weight, so that you can afford to have the bullet lose more of it.

I'd rank the 165 SST last, although I wouldn't classify any of your choices as ill advised.