Which reloader to buy? rifle - handgun

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I can load about 200 pistol rds per hour on my Lee Classic Turret press. I also have the Inline Fabrication case ejector setup installed. The only time I handle a case is when I place it on the ram at the beginning of the cycle. I agree with the others that count this press as the best value in the market for a starter press. Want to go slowly and carefully in single stage mode--take out the index rod. Need a bit more speed once you get the hang of loading--restore the index rod & increase your output by 50% or so. Getting it figured out, need more speed, but don't want to invest in a progressive press--look into the Inline Fabrication reverse-indexing-case ejector kit and increase LCT output another 25%+. It's solid equipment with a good warranty. No it's not in the same class as a Dillon progressive, but if I needed that much more ammo, if be able to afford a Dillon!
Be sure not to confuse the Lee Deluxe Turret press with the Lee Classic Turret. The LCT base is constructed of cast iron and is much more substantial than the cast aluminum base on the Deluxe model.
There's a lot of great equipment for reloaders out now. For me, the LCT is "just right."
 
When I started I bought a turret press as I was only going to load pistol rounds. For pistol I think a turret makes a lot of sense. As I started to load for rifle a single stage press is perfectly fine for most operations. The only exception may be high volume .223 loading for an AR. I started with a Lee classic turret. I like it a lot, and it's been fine. I am also in the market for a single stage for things like a dedicated deprimer, or specific rifle operations.

Jeff
 
I learned (still learning) on a progressive. I won't break any speed records but it will be almost impossible to make a cartridge without any or too much powder. There's some piece of mind in that for a guy starting out. I guess like everything there are pros and cons to every decision
 
10 Advices for the novice loader

It was a while ago I wrote this little essay and I trot it out every once in a while where it seems like it might be helpful.

10 Advices for the novice loader

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices.


Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".


So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.


When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks. I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all.


It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly.


I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.


Now, here are my Ten Advices.


Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.


Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment.


Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging.


I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better.


There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter.


Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If building your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins.


Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?


Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.


About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. My advice: Ignore the snobs.


On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.


On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.

RCBS and Dillon seem, by most reports, the best warranty service. But that is reflected in the original purchase prices. Lee has a one year warranty at half the purchase price. You pays your money and you makes your choice. If you buy the higher-end Lee stuff, use the heck out of it the first year (to week out any true manufacturing defects), and give the gear good maintennce, it will last as long as as well as RCBS.


Advice #3 While Learning, you may think about options. Progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes? Don't get fancy.




While you are learning, stay below maximum power levels (and do not go below book minimums, either). Propellants are designed to run best within a fairly narrow performance envelope. Start in the lower portion of and stay in the mid-range of that envelope. While you are at it, check several different sources for recipes. Different ballistics labs use different guns, primers and conditions and get different results. Look at the range of values in the recipes and stay in the mid-range. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.


While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform multiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.


Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.


On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.


Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.


Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. Most keep at least one.


Advice #4 Find a mentor.


There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technique BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")


I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.


After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.


Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, easse, cleanliness


Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that.

For example, consider the word "workflow". Place your components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme.

One factor often neglected is where the scale is located. Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate, eye level, in good light, etc.


Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology


Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.


Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10.


Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)


When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long."


Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel.

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.


Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.


Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present or future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?


Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt.

Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" or a "3" instead of a decimal point because they are next to each other on the keypad.


Good luck.


Lost Sheep
 
A better question would be "what spare bedroom to clear out and fill with equipment" and then once answered fill it with a single stage, a turret, a progressive, and everything else. They all have a purpose but if you aren't drawn toward the progressives then definitely leave them be and get a single stage press. It will never lose its purpose on the bench, and will teach you what you need to look for in future equipment. That said, good luck in choosing which one!
 
I can't speak to the RCBS turret, but the Redding T-7 turrets are calibrated, via their mounting bushing, for consistent alignment when the ram/shell holder are raised.

That is why you can't mix-n-match the bushings and turrets when changing them...they are match machined to correctly align on the press

If the Redding or RCBS made a auto indexing turret I would be all over that in a heartbeat!

For a new person starting out it is hard to beat the Lee Classic turret. I was able to buy all the turrets (a lot of them) and all the extra stuff for not a lot of money. I can buy any press I want, but I rather spend money on guns.;)
 
I have three progressive units all Dillon (2) SDB and (1) 550B. Also a single stage Redding. Along with that (2) Redding Powder measures and a Belding & Mull measure. The SDB units (1) dedicated to the 45ACP and (1) dedicated to the 9mm-Luger. The 550B maybe employed for either rifle or pistol and the Redding basically for rifle.

I'm not a Handloader but rather a Reloader. I don't enjoy the process and it isn't a hobby either. I'd rather be shooting than reloading.
 
I started with a RCBS Rockchucker and RCBS Partner press, both purchased off of ebay. Kept with the single stage approach, batch mode, swapping dies out of the RC for each step and crimping on the Partner until I purchased a Lee Classic Turret (4-hole) and was able to improve throughput from ~100 rnds/hr max to about 200 rnds/hr. By using a Lee Pro-Disc Powder measure mounted on the powder thru die in position 1 on the turret, this eliminates the need for a separate powder measure & pour step. I have found the disk system to be very consistent. Also, once set, there is no adjustment needed for the die sets. Changing between calibers is as simple as swapping out turrets and re-mounting the powder measure with an appropriate disk swap if needed. (Although I've found a common disk setting for 9mm & .45, but this won't always be the case if I change powder types or loadings).

.223 rifle loads are still done on the RC, but I do have additional disk sets to accommodate higher charge weights to run on the LCT , but that would only be for an established load combination. It just keeps getting pushed down the to-do list.

All basic load development for new powder/bullet combinations is still done on the single stage, before moving over to the turret. So as stated numerous times by other posters, there is always a place for a single stage press on your bench.
 
I don't think any one can identify your needs but you, however, you may glean bits of information that can help you hone in on specifics.

Single stages force you to handle the brass often, but this is often a good thing. For extremely accurate rifle loading, single stages like my RCBS Rockchukers are slow and methodical. I hand prime and weigh each charge for exacting standards. I have two single stages side by side so I decap and resize on one and seat on the other. Exacting standards but very slow going.

My Dillon 450 and 550 are workhorses for handgun calibers. Typically I can go thru 200 pistol rounds (or more) per range session so higher capacity that a Dillon RL 550B offers is helpful.

But only you and your personality can decide. Ask yourself....is reloading a hobby to relax and enjoy, or do you want to crank out rounds quickly like a factory and get to something else more enjoyable?
 
Very good advice in this forum. I cannot say enough about buying cast iron presses. They will last a lifetime without much maintenance. I do lube and oil once a year though. My single stages are cast iron and my progressive is cast aluminum. The progressive I lube and oil several times a year. Also, as has been stated before, try and buy quality and from companies with lasting customer service. This forum provides enough information on customer service.
 
I just love the Lee turret. Auto index keeps me from double charging, loading 1 complete round at a time keeps me from losing my place or knocking a tray of cases over, and I can just do 20 or 30 in my down time if I need to. Plus its a little faster. I have single, progressive, and turret, and the turret is the most versatile. That said, I found that I don't use it all that much any more. I load volume handgun on the progressive, and most most precision rifle on the single stage.turret is mostly used for low volume pistol like 44mag and rifle with lead bullets. 30carb and 30/30 etc.
 
I have a Lee and Lyman turret the Lee is for my hand guns and some times 223 My Lyman is my go to for 223 25.06 270 30.06 My Lee is 30 years old and I have had NO trouble with it was the first press so I loaded every thing on it! Then I pick up the T press of Lyman for my long guns. Good Luck
 
I initially thought turret for a long time, for leaving the dies "set" then I got to play with one of the Hornady single stages with the bushings. Like that system a lot.

I have a lyman crusher II and a RCBS rock chucker supreme, so I set my dies up in pairs when I''m serious, but if I ever had to start, I'd get a Hornady single stage if I wasn't going right to progressive.
 
I have the older Lee "Deluxe" turret and a Hornady LNL progressive.
For me loading on the turret is more like fun loading on the progressive is more like work. (lots of things going on at one time on the progresive)
Turret heads are about $13 so you can setup you dies and just swap the heads, shell holder, and put the powder measure on that head and you good to go. (took almost as long to type that as it does to do it )



I would suggest the Lee Classic turret, nicer than the old Deluxe. Great value for the money. As mentioned earlier you can always take the index rod out.

My turret is the older 3 hole model so I deprime/resize, clean cases then hand prime, put on the turret head with the powder drop/flair, bullet seat and FCD.
Not counting priming time I can load between 150-200 and hour easy. (9mm/.45s)

I have never used a T7 but most people who have one see to be quite happy with them.
 
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Lee's Turret Presses Compared

Most of this has been covered before, but here are my observations which (I think, I hope) cover all the bases in one post

Lee Turrets Compared

The Lee Classic Turret and the Lee Deluxe Turret operate in exactly the same manner. (Except for some older, now discontinued models of the Deluxe which have 3 die stations - and, no, the 4-hole turrets do not interchange with the 3-hole turrets.)

Same speed, many of the same parts and same operating mode and technique.

But there are differences.

Evolution: The Classic Turret is the newer design of the two.

Durability: The Classic Turret's base is cast iron, the Deluxe is cast aluminum. Iron wears better than the softer metal, aluminum.

Ease of use: The Deluxe has a 1" smaller vertical opening than the Classic Turret. Though either is capable of taking rifle cartridges, the Classic Turret will take longer ones and if you have big hands is the clear winner

Spent Primer Handling: The Deluxe drops primers out of a slot in the ram to fall into a cavity inside the press base. But only about 90% succeed in their intended journey. The Classic drops primers down the center of the hollow ram and into a clear plastic tube which can contain a few hundred primers or be directed into a receptacle of your choice. The difference in the behavior of the debris (products of combustion) from the spent primers is even more striking. With the Deluxe, you wind up with primer detritus all over and have to dismount the press and sweep up the pile of spent primers every several hundred rounds.

More on Durability: The Deluxe's ram is smaller in diameter than the Classic's ram. This gives the Classic Turret a much greater bearing surface for the ram to be guided as it moves up and down. The Classic press will last much longer because of the increased surface area and because iron is tougher than aluminum.

Even more on Durability: The last I heard, the Deluxe's linkage is aluminum and stampings. The Classic's linkage is more robust.

There is an optional roller handle, which is said to be easier to use, so an upgrade over the standard, stock handle. I believe the same handle is available for both presses.

In summary:

The Deluxe is aluminum, spills spent primers and has a slightly smaller opening (which you may find important when loading long cartridges or long bullets, especialy if you have large hands). Kempf's gun shop (online) assembles a kit containing the Classic Turret and does not force someone who already reloads to take other stuff you already have (except a set of dies and some cartridge boxes).

I think that's about it.

Lost Sheep

edited to add Here is a poll run a while ago that might be helpful.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=773965

another edit:
you can put 4 dies in a Lee Turret Head/Disk. for about $15. You can put 6 or 7 dies in Lyman's, Redding's or RCBS' disk. For about $70. Doing the math, that's $3.50 per die for Lee's. more than $10 per die for anyone else's. So, it you can get by with only 4 die stations, the Lee is more cost-efficient. Some find it more convenient to have one set of dies per disk, so if you can get by with only 4 die stations, Lee has it for convenience there. Also Lee's turrets change disks with a twist of the wrist and lifting or inserting and twist. All other turrets require a tool to unscrew the center mount nut or bolt.

Because all turrets need some clearance in order to turn the turret, there is some movement. But center-mounted turret disks tilt. Lee's disk (retained in a peripheral ring, not a center post) lift pretty much straight up.
 
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Just a couple of additions, if I might

Lost Sheep said:
There is an optional roller handle, which is said to be easier to use, so an upgrade over the standard, stock handle. I believe the same handle is available for both presses.
The Lee roller handle only fits the Deluxe Turret...the shaft is too thin for the Classic's attachment method.

However, Inline Fabrication makes a much better handle...their Ergo Handle. Besides adding a roller, the shaft is bent to reduce the amount of bending at the waist at the far end (downward) of it's travel

Because all turrets need some clearance in order to turn the turret, there is some movement. But center-mounted turret disks tilt.
The Redding T-7 comes with a dedicated mounting bushing for each turret. This bushing is match machined to each turret to control the amount of tilt when the ram is raised...it controls the angle of tilt before the turret meets the rear of the frame. The turret stops tilting backwards when the die being used is aligned with the case.
 
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