Which would be better? Custom Ruger or Freedom Arms
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Jim March
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Man, I dunno. I'll assume for a sec you're talking about the '97 FA frame size.
If you want "Vaquero type sights", the differences would come down to feel and personal preference. Add an extra round in the Ruger's favor of course.
But once you run adjustable sights, I believe that FA's positioning of the rear sight forward on the topstrap is inspired. Ruger's "rear overhang" Blackhawk sight is an abomination as it interferes with cocking with some standard SAA-type handling practices. That's my opinion anyways.
If you want "Vaquero type sights", the differences would come down to feel and personal preference. Add an extra round in the Ruger's favor of course.
But once you run adjustable sights, I believe that FA's positioning of the rear sight forward on the topstrap is inspired. Ruger's "rear overhang" Blackhawk sight is an abomination as it interferes with cocking with some standard SAA-type handling practices. That's my opinion anyways.
Jim, you are correct I was talking about the Model 97 frame. I should have been a little more descriptive in my post.
Adjustable sights would be prefered. Packablility is a concern.
My questions between the two guns (even though there are more) deals mostly with which gun will shoot more accurately and which gun (finished gun) would end up being a higher quality piece of work. It seems that the cost difference between a Freedom Arms and a custom Ruger are about the same. But is the Ruger starting point for the gun something that will limit how good it can become or are the custom pistolsmiths able to find the diamond in the rough so to speak.
Thanks!
Adjustable sights would be prefered. Packablility is a concern.
My questions between the two guns (even though there are more) deals mostly with which gun will shoot more accurately and which gun (finished gun) would end up being a higher quality piece of work. It seems that the cost difference between a Freedom Arms and a custom Ruger are about the same. But is the Ruger starting point for the gun something that will limit how good it can become or are the custom pistolsmiths able to find the diamond in the rough so to speak.
Thanks!
Tom C.
Member.
I think you are talking apples and oranges. The FA 97 is equivalent in strength to the NMBH .45 Colt, but the FA has a shorter cylinder and is slightly restricted, making it less versatile than the NMBH.
The custom .45s from Bowen, et. al., are 5 shot custom cylinder guns, equivalent to the FA 83. They are both in a league beyond either the standard NMBH or 97.
If you are talking about a custom job on a 6 shot standard cylinder on a NMBH, then it is still equivalent to the 97, costs about the same, but has a longer cylinder to properly seat heavy bullets.
The custom .45s from Bowen, et. al., are 5 shot custom cylinder guns, equivalent to the FA 83. They are both in a league beyond either the standard NMBH or 97.
If you are talking about a custom job on a 6 shot standard cylinder on a NMBH, then it is still equivalent to the 97, costs about the same, but has a longer cylinder to properly seat heavy bullets.
TallPine
Member
I don't get it ... why would you want a customized gun for that purpose?
Something that is going to ge banged around to some extent.
Why not just get a stock Ruger Blackhawk and be done with it?
Jim March
Member
Wedge, the main reason FAs are so accurate is that they line-bore the cylinder with the final barrel/frame configuration. That means the pilot hole for each cylinder bore is done with a smaller drill run right down the barrel. The accuracy of the final barrel-to-cylinder fit is unmatched by any other process.
Now go back to the website for Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision, who is one of the more reasonably priced gunsmiths who do line-boring on Rugers. Guess what? The FA turns out to be a *bargain*. Go to Bowen and prices are even wilder.
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SA III Custom Ruger: Field Grade. Includes: Custom 1.750" diameter five or six shot line bore chambered cylinder, cylinder stop support, custom oversize cylinder stop, premium barrel with conventional crown and minimum barrel cylinder gap, modified Ruger ramp front sight and factory rear sight, factory ejector and tube, standard tune, adjusted carry up, free wheeling cylinder will rotate in either direction when loading gate is open, standard matte blue or brush stainless finish, appropriate markings, and test fire.
$1717
Note 2. Express cylinder, 1.780 diameter, up-charge $119.00
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http://www.alphaprecisioninc.com/contact/prices.htm
And that's his lower-end line-bored critter...so far as I'm aware, the least expensive source for this mod on Rugers. Look at what it runs JUST for that:
Cylinder, 5/6 shot, prem. barrel, line bore chamber, w/up grades $1,215.00
Take $1717 and add to it the cost of the base gun and you're above FA prices:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976395500.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976384924.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976395501.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976397983.htm
Now go back to the website for Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision, who is one of the more reasonably priced gunsmiths who do line-boring on Rugers. Guess what? The FA turns out to be a *bargain*. Go to Bowen and prices are even wilder.
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SA III Custom Ruger: Field Grade. Includes: Custom 1.750" diameter five or six shot line bore chambered cylinder, cylinder stop support, custom oversize cylinder stop, premium barrel with conventional crown and minimum barrel cylinder gap, modified Ruger ramp front sight and factory rear sight, factory ejector and tube, standard tune, adjusted carry up, free wheeling cylinder will rotate in either direction when loading gate is open, standard matte blue or brush stainless finish, appropriate markings, and test fire.
$1717
Note 2. Express cylinder, 1.780 diameter, up-charge $119.00
-----
http://www.alphaprecisioninc.com/contact/prices.htm
And that's his lower-end line-bored critter...so far as I'm aware, the least expensive source for this mod on Rugers. Look at what it runs JUST for that:
Cylinder, 5/6 shot, prem. barrel, line bore chamber, w/up grades $1,215.00
Take $1717 and add to it the cost of the base gun and you're above FA prices:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976395500.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976384924.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976395501.htm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976397983.htm
I have been looking at Mr. Bowen's website today and it looks like the quality of his work speaks for itself. Jim, thank you for explaining why the FA firearms are exceptionally accurate. I know that it is a game of tolerances (that is my job essentially) and now I know why the tolerances are able to be kept so tight on the FA.
TallPine, I want a very high quality firearm. I would never buy something and not use it. I don't believe in safe queens. Just my opinion. That isn't to say that I don't take very good care of everything I own, I am just saying that I use it for what it was made to do. It is nice to own something that you can be very proud to own, something that you can say you had custom made just for you. I don't own anything like that now, and a custom .45 Colt 5-gun seems to be the answer.
Do I need it? No, absolutely not. However, I would rather spend $2500 on a single gun that was made exactly how I wanted it instead of buying 3 or 4 other guns that anyone can buy in a given store. You need something that invokes strong passion, and the only thing that can satisfy that passion is to use it...often. I have a Ruger .45 Colt. I plan on doing the standard mods to it soon. But that isn't the same.
My buddy is planning on building a kit-car. Should I tell him to just buy a Honda?
TallPine, I want a very high quality firearm. I would never buy something and not use it. I don't believe in safe queens. Just my opinion. That isn't to say that I don't take very good care of everything I own, I am just saying that I use it for what it was made to do. It is nice to own something that you can be very proud to own, something that you can say you had custom made just for you. I don't own anything like that now, and a custom .45 Colt 5-gun seems to be the answer.
Do I need it? No, absolutely not. However, I would rather spend $2500 on a single gun that was made exactly how I wanted it instead of buying 3 or 4 other guns that anyone can buy in a given store. You need something that invokes strong passion, and the only thing that can satisfy that passion is to use it...often. I have a Ruger .45 Colt. I plan on doing the standard mods to it soon. But that isn't the same.
My buddy is planning on building a kit-car. Should I tell him to just buy a Honda?
Wedge, I intend to go the very same route as you someday!!
A full custom gun has my fancy as well!!
Tallpine, beauty is in the eye's of the beholder, and a Custom gun seems to trip the trigger more than a stock piece. Personal preference comes heavily into play on this issue.
A full custom gun has my fancy as well!!
Tallpine, beauty is in the eye's of the beholder, and a Custom gun seems to trip the trigger more than a stock piece. Personal preference comes heavily into play on this issue.
Maytom, it is going to be a little while before I can make this dream a reality. This is going to be my prize for finishing up graduate school (7 months!). The gun will end up costing me twice as much as originally anticipated though because I am going to have to have something custom made for my better half when I have this made for my self. Hers will probably last longer...
Jim March
Member
Personally, I'd go with Jim Stroh instead of Bowen, mainly because Stroh puts in "extra special technical touches" ahead of a fierce devotion to cosmetics.
I'm not saying Stroh makes ugly guns, I'm saying his FIRST priority is the engineering.
Take that up-charge for the oversized cylinder as an example. 1.780 width means it barely fits in the frame window. But it DOES fit, and hence you can get a real six-shooter that's almost as strong as most of the five-shooters. Linebaugh did some experimentation in the same vein and was driving 45LC 350s @1450+ if I recall right. Safely. Talk to Jim Stroh about what such a gun can do before you limit yourself to five shots. You can see some of Linebaugh's data here:
http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh
For years, FA wouldn't talk about their engineering processes other than to say "they're accurate". When the FA '97 in 22 came out and was being independently tested at MOA or below (less than 1" groups @ 100 yards) somebody asked and FA finally talked about line-boring as a standard part of the process.
I'm not saying Stroh makes ugly guns, I'm saying his FIRST priority is the engineering.
Take that up-charge for the oversized cylinder as an example. 1.780 width means it barely fits in the frame window. But it DOES fit, and hence you can get a real six-shooter that's almost as strong as most of the five-shooters. Linebaugh did some experimentation in the same vein and was driving 45LC 350s @1450+ if I recall right. Safely. Talk to Jim Stroh about what such a gun can do before you limit yourself to five shots. You can see some of Linebaugh's data here:
http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh
For years, FA wouldn't talk about their engineering processes other than to say "they're accurate"
. When the FA '97 in 22 came out and was being independently tested at MOA or below (less than 1" groups @ 100 yards) somebody asked and FA finally talked about line-boring as a standard part of the process.I am definitely going to shop around and go with the builder that shares the same ideas of what a single action should be with me. If everything goes well I should be able to make this reality in under 2 years. We'll see!
That is pretty funny about FA. I am surprised that they disclosed their practice, but then again the line-bore method seems like something that would be prohibitively expensive for mass production. It would be nice if all companies put quality of quantity but then many people would be priced right out of the game.
That is pretty funny about FA. I am surprised that they disclosed their practice, but then again the line-bore method seems like something that would be prohibitively expensive for mass production. It would be nice if all companies put quality of quantity but then many people would be priced right out of the game.
farscott
Member
My personal choice would be the FA 83, especially if you want to be able to shoot heavy loads with accuracy. FA revolvers have amazing attention to detail, leading to good accuracy and good looks. I have a bit of experience with Jim Stroh's work, namely a .45 Colt Redhawk and a .45 Colt Blackhawk. Both revolvers were very nice, but I preferred the FA frame to the Ruger frame.
I have owned two Premier Grade FA 83 revolvers, one in .454 Casull with an optional .45 Colt cylinder and one in .44 Magnum. Both revolvers shot well beyond my ability, and both were as tight as the day they were new after many hundreds of rounds (.454 Casull) and thousands of rounds (.45 Colt and .44 Magnum). The only reason I sold these revolvers was so I could get two FA 97 revolvers, one in .357 Magnum and one in .22 LR. I no longer needed the hard hitting magnums, and I wanted to consolidate calibers. I did not lose a dime on my FA 83 revolvers; in fact, I sold them in 2003 for more than I paid for them in 1995. I have not been disappointed with my FA revolvers, especially the FA 97 .22 LR. In other hands (my aging eyes limit my shooting), I have seen groups from it that appear to have been shot from rifles.
FA will customize your revolver to meet your needs, so if something you want is not in the catalog (like an octagon barrel or special sights), you can probably get it. They also back the Premier Grade revolvers with a lifetime warranty.
I have owned two Premier Grade FA 83 revolvers, one in .454 Casull with an optional .45 Colt cylinder and one in .44 Magnum. Both revolvers shot well beyond my ability, and both were as tight as the day they were new after many hundreds of rounds (.454 Casull) and thousands of rounds (.45 Colt and .44 Magnum). The only reason I sold these revolvers was so I could get two FA 97 revolvers, one in .357 Magnum and one in .22 LR. I no longer needed the hard hitting magnums, and I wanted to consolidate calibers. I did not lose a dime on my FA 83 revolvers; in fact, I sold them in 2003 for more than I paid for them in 1995. I have not been disappointed with my FA revolvers, especially the FA 97 .22 LR. In other hands (my aging eyes limit my shooting), I have seen groups from it that appear to have been shot from rifles.
FA will customize your revolver to meet your needs, so if something you want is not in the catalog (like an octagon barrel or special sights), you can probably get it. They also back the Premier Grade revolvers with a lifetime warranty.
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