Regarding a full size 44 or 45, I've been thinking about who would have chosen a revolver over a rifle in the old west. I supose outlaws and lawman of course, also military but I wonder about the average civilian. We definatly know they did as the numbers sold cant be denied, I just wonder what they had in mind at the time of purchase that a rifle wouldnt do. I supose many were bought for the same reason we buy them today-Their Cool. Any thoughts welcome.
Who bought revolvers in the old west?
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Peter M. Eick
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My observation from talking with a many ranchers over the years that we (the modern gun enthusiast/collector/???) place far more value on the gun then they do. I have had old guys in the back country give me looks like I was a blithering idiot when I would ask what they were carrying. It was like I was asking what brand of hammer they were using to put up the fence.
The revolver is more of a tool to may of the owners/ranchers. Once I realized this, I dumped my Glock 20 and started carrying a well worn 1934 38/44 Heavy Duty. As a Geologist I attracted much less attention and was treated as an insider instead of some oil company hick in the smaller towns.
As a working Geologist/Geophysicist I can tell you field work requires both hands. When you are plane table-ing or field mapping you need to be able to carry notebook and samples let alone a GPS (modern convenience), compass etc. Surveyors, Field hands, Geo's etc. We all need both our hands free so a rifle is pretty much a horse (quad today) or truck endeavor.
The revolver is more of a tool to may of the owners/ranchers. Once I realized this, I dumped my Glock 20 and started carrying a well worn 1934 38/44 Heavy Duty. As a Geologist I attracted much less attention and was treated as an insider instead of some oil company hick in the smaller towns.
As a working Geologist/Geophysicist I can tell you field work requires both hands. When you are plane table-ing or field mapping you need to be able to carry notebook and samples let alone a GPS (modern convenience), compass etc. Surveyors, Field hands, Geo's etc. We all need both our hands free so a rifle is pretty much a horse (quad today) or truck endeavor.
My experience with ranchers and farmers here in Idaho is that Ruger is very popular - especially stainless steel models. GP 100's and Blackhawks. I've also seen more then a few Taurus revolvers and Smith and Wesson Model 64's, 65's and 66's.
Revolvers seem very popular as do Ruger semi-autos. These are folks who want solid, low keep weapons with some power.
They aren't necessarily "into" firearms.
Revolvers seem very popular as do Ruger semi-autos. These are folks who want solid, low keep weapons with some power.
They aren't necessarily "into" firearms.
Many of the large working ranches did not allow the carry of sidearms. That's understandable because if you had a rifle that was all that was needed ( and many riders didn't even have a rifle). However many of the "cowboys" had a hand gun in their warbags. Most were never removed but just in case. You will also find the the prevalent firearm carried in the old west was a usually a small inexpensive revolver that was carried in the back pocket. Usually a .32. The ideal of a "cowboy" riding the range with a heavy .45 and a Winchester in a saddle scabbard is a Hollywood fable.
Cosmoline
Member
You have to forget everything you know from personal experience and the movies. We're talking about a very different time and place, when folks in general and the nation itself had very little money. By our standards, the US would be considered a third world country. Just as most mountain men couldn't hope to afford a true Hawken rifle, most frontiersmen couldn't hope to afford a SAA or other sixgun. The production statistics for Colt and Winchester indicate that when folks did have money, they went for a long gun much more often. It wasn't until the advent of cheap breaktop "bulldog" revolvers in the 1890's that handguns became somewhat affordable.
Nightcrawler
Member
Surplus black powder revolvers were popular long after they were considered technologically obsolete, too. They were there, they worked as well as they ever did, and they were likely cheaper than the new guns from Colt and S&W.
Back in the day, a new Colt SAA cost what, $25.00? That was a lot of money back then, when the average "working man" was making a dollar a day.
Back in the day, a new Colt SAA cost what, $25.00? That was a lot of money back then, when the average "working man" was making a dollar a day.
My 1902 Sears Catalog list a price of $13.20 for a 45 LC Colt SAA. Pearl handles cost $5.35 more.
The cheapest top break 38 S&W revolver they sold is priced $2.95. Also comes in 32 S&W long for the same price.
A Winchester High Wall cost about $10.69, a M1886 was $13.55.
The cheapest single shot shotgun "the Long Range Winner" is $3.98. The "White Powder Wonder" was $4.10. Love the names.
Agricultural, stockyard workers barely lived from payday to payday. Considering that factory wages were around $5.00 a week, and thus most people made less, I bet not a lot of people could afford much beyond the White Powder wonder.
Today, we live in a world of plenty. In the 1890's 80% of the population lived below the poverty line.
The cheapest top break 38 S&W revolver they sold is priced $2.95. Also comes in 32 S&W long for the same price.
A Winchester High Wall cost about $10.69, a M1886 was $13.55.
The cheapest single shot shotgun "the Long Range Winner" is $3.98. The "White Powder Wonder" was $4.10. Love the names.
Agricultural, stockyard workers barely lived from payday to payday. Considering that factory wages were around $5.00 a week, and thus most people made less, I bet not a lot of people could afford much beyond the White Powder wonder.
Today, we live in a world of plenty. In the 1890's 80% of the population lived below the poverty line.
TallPine
Member
Okay, I'm going somewhat on hearsay and deduction ....
But any working cowboy likely changed horses during the day, plus the ranch remuda was likely only "green broke" and there was the distinct possibility of having a bronc roll on your rifle in a saddle scabbard, or getting bucked off and separated from your firearm while the cayuse hightailed it back to his buddies.
If a cowboy carried a firearm, he probably used it more for signalling, and occasionally having to put down a wounded animal. A sixgun would be handier for both than a rifle.
And I'm sure there were a lot of (un)Civil War era percussion revolvers (and cartridge conversions of those) floating around in the west ("flooding the streets" as the Brady Bunch would say). Heck, I'm sure that all the single shot muzzle loading rifles didn't get retired the day that Winchester introduced a new lever gun
But any working cowboy likely changed horses during the day, plus the ranch remuda was likely only "green broke" and there was the distinct possibility of having a bronc roll on your rifle in a saddle scabbard, or getting bucked off and separated from your firearm while the cayuse hightailed it back to his buddies.
If a cowboy carried a firearm, he probably used it more for signalling, and occasionally having to put down a wounded animal. A sixgun would be handier for both than a rifle.
And I'm sure there were a lot of (un)Civil War era percussion revolvers (and cartridge conversions of those) floating around in the west ("flooding the streets" as the Brady Bunch would say). Heck, I'm sure that all the single shot muzzle loading rifles didn't get retired the day that Winchester introduced a new lever gun
Sniper X
Member
Thre is a lot of accurate information here. I read that most people whop had guns who were not lawmen or outlaws had AA shotgun, and nothing else. Some had one rifle, or one handgun but like many ave allready stated, a months income didn;t go very far when you had to pay for room and board, and drink or gamble. I guy may have to save for 6 months just to afford any gun, let alone a quality gun. Shoot, I thought I had it bad having to try to justify to myself when I could buy a new gun! At least a new gun doesn't cost a months wages for me! That would be an expensive gun!
BADUNAME13
Member
I don't buy pistols because they are cool.
I have them because I can't carry an AK into Wallmart
Also because when your rifle goes down (When you DO have it) you need a second option.
'Cool' doesn't enter into the equation.
I have them because I can't carry an AK into Wallmart
Also because when your rifle goes down (When you DO have it) you need a second option.
'Cool' doesn't enter into the equation.
Vern Humphrey
Member
According to family legend, my Great-grandfather carried a .44 cap-and-ball revolver in 1892, when he faced down a claim-jumper in Oklahoma -- the latter had moved into his cabin while he went out to meet Great-grandma and the boys, who came by covered wagon from Nebraska. The claim jumper was armed with a Civil War rifle-musket -- but he had left it leaning aginst the cabin front door. While he was hurrying toward the cabin from the fields to see who had stopped, Great-grandpa drew the charge, so no shooting was requried.
J. Frank Dobie, the great University of Texas folklorest referred to his father's generation as "The Six-Gun Generation" (Dobie was born in the 1890s.)
Most people who went afield in Oklahoma and Texas in those days went armed, and a handgun is better for a horseman than a rifle or carbine. If you look at period photographs of people in rural areas, you will generally see a firearm somewhere.
J. Frank Dobie, the great University of Texas folklorest referred to his father's generation as "The Six-Gun Generation" (Dobie was born in the 1890s.)
Most people who went afield in Oklahoma and Texas in those days went armed, and a handgun is better for a horseman than a rifle or carbine. If you look at period photographs of people in rural areas, you will generally see a firearm somewhere.
TallPine
Member
My great-grandfather who was living in Arkansas in the 1890's dissappeared or "died suddenly." I don't know the whole story but family legend has it that he went off on an expedition to buy/sell some cattle and was probably robbed and murdered. Great-grandma and kids moved to eastern OK with another family after that.
I would sure like to find out the real story, and whether he was routinely armed and with what, etc...
Kernel
Member
Vern, "... drew the charge."
Does that mean he unloaded the other guy's rifle?
-- Kernel
Does that mean he unloaded the other guy's rifle?
-- Kernel
Vern Humphrey
Member
Yup. The moral of this story is, keep your gun on your person if you plan to shoot someone with it.
It's my understanding that anybody who owned a gun in the old west era, likely owned a shotgun.
People travelling west didn't have a lot of money with them, and they needed a gun that was simple, dependable, affordable, reliable, and effective. Something that anybody in the family could learn to use should they need to, and a shotgun often fit these requirements the best.
A shotgun was a proven design and simple to operate. It was simple to load and shoot, simple to clean since they were smoothbore, and their effectiveness back then was undeniable.
Remember, between 1873 and 1941 the Colt company only managed to sell about a third of a million SAAs, and that was counting the military and police forces, and all the civilian sales. Back then people simply bought what they could afford and learned to make the best of it.
People travelling west didn't have a lot of money with them, and they needed a gun that was simple, dependable, affordable, reliable, and effective. Something that anybody in the family could learn to use should they need to, and a shotgun often fit these requirements the best.
A shotgun was a proven design and simple to operate. It was simple to load and shoot, simple to clean since they were smoothbore, and their effectiveness back then was undeniable.
Remember, between 1873 and 1941 the Colt company only managed to sell about a third of a million SAAs, and that was counting the military and police forces, and all the civilian sales. Back then people simply bought what they could afford and learned to make the best of it.
Cosmoline
Member
The humble scattergun is the great unsung firearm of the frontier.
"Back in the day, a new Colt SAA cost what, $25.00?"
My reproduction 1894 Sears Roebuck & Co. catalog lists.... "Colt's Single Action Revolver. Army, Frontier, and Target Revolvers, Nickel Plated or Blued, .32, .38, .44, .41, .45... $12.95."
Same catalog lists "Colt's New Navy double action revolver. .38 or .41 @ $12.00." Same price for "Colt's Double Action Revolver, .38 & .41," and "Colt's Double Action Army Revolver, various barrel lengths, .44, .45., or .38, six shooter, for $13.75."
So whether or not Colt made only 1/3 million Colt's Single Actions, they made a tremendous amount of other revolvers in other models,including their double actions... which were also bought and carried by many people.
From my many years research on "the old West," I've found that those who could afford a Colt's, or S&W, bought one. Others bought cheaper ones.
As for "the cowboy," he would have either a rifle or pistol on the trail, although as said above, they were usually kept in their warbags with the chuck wagon....UNLESS, there were some fear of either outlaws or Indians. Trailing cattle on raw broncs, roping, etc., made wearing a pistol or having a rifle in a saddle scabbard not only awkward, but dangerous.
Most "cowboys" at that time would have carried Civil War cap 'n ball revolvers, and rifles. Don't forget, the trail herds north ended in 1881, as the railroads pushed all over the West.
Nevertheless, most people of that day owned firearms, whether percussion or cartridge, shotgun, rifle or pistol. People were armed at home, out in the boonies, or where they travelled.
Same today, for modern times. Never hurts to be prepared.
L.W.
EDIT: In additon, same catalog, "Winchester Rifles, Model of 1873, various lengths, octagonal or round barrel, various calibers, $11.86."
"Winchester Rifles, Model of 1886, same barrels, .40-82, .45-70,.38-56, .40-65, .50-110, $14.18."
For these princely sums, one also received a FREE cleaning rod!!
My, how things have changed!
L.W.
My reproduction 1894 Sears Roebuck & Co. catalog lists.... "Colt's Single Action Revolver. Army, Frontier, and Target Revolvers, Nickel Plated or Blued, .32, .38, .44, .41, .45... $12.95."
Same catalog lists "Colt's New Navy double action revolver. .38 or .41 @ $12.00." Same price for "Colt's Double Action Revolver, .38 & .41," and "Colt's Double Action Army Revolver, various barrel lengths, .44, .45., or .38, six shooter, for $13.75."
So whether or not Colt made only 1/3 million Colt's Single Actions, they made a tremendous amount of other revolvers in other models,including their double actions... which were also bought and carried by many people.
From my many years research on "the old West," I've found that those who could afford a Colt's, or S&W, bought one. Others bought cheaper ones.
As for "the cowboy," he would have either a rifle or pistol on the trail, although as said above, they were usually kept in their warbags with the chuck wagon....UNLESS, there were some fear of either outlaws or Indians. Trailing cattle on raw broncs, roping, etc., made wearing a pistol or having a rifle in a saddle scabbard not only awkward, but dangerous.
Most "cowboys" at that time would have carried Civil War cap 'n ball revolvers, and rifles. Don't forget, the trail herds north ended in 1881, as the railroads pushed all over the West.
Nevertheless, most people of that day owned firearms, whether percussion or cartridge, shotgun, rifle or pistol. People were armed at home, out in the boonies, or where they travelled.
Same today, for modern times. Never hurts to be prepared.
L.W.
EDIT: In additon, same catalog, "Winchester Rifles, Model of 1873, various lengths, octagonal or round barrel, various calibers, $11.86."
"Winchester Rifles, Model of 1886, same barrels, .40-82, .45-70,.38-56, .40-65, .50-110, $14.18."
For these princely sums, one also received a FREE cleaning rod!!
My, how things have changed!
L.W.
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