Who doesn’t own/like AR’s?

[Steve51]

I don't own any AR style rifles. I carried an M16 in the field for my 6 years of military service but I have never really had the desire to own one. I live in Illinois, and almost bought one last year simply because the state has now declared we don't have the right to own one. Since childhood, I have always like firearms blued with walnut stocks or grips. I really prefer lever guns and revolvers but do have a 9mm compact semi auto for self defense and I might one day own an AR, especially if the Illinois gun ban is eventually ruled unconstitutional - just out of contempt for our state government and rich oversized governor.
Guess I'm just an old "red neck"

 

[entropy]

Boat: a hole in the water surrounded by wood into which one throws money.

I think he was going for Boat-Break Out Another Thousand.

 

[Styx]

As someone who uses the term Fudd when I think it is warranted I would say the term Fudd is getting thrown around here and it doesn't really apply for the most part.

There are no Fudd guns only Fudd gun owners. Fudds are gun owners that are willing to give up the AR style guns and similar in a belief it will save their more tradition hunting firearms. The term Fudd is about selfish traditionalist that are willing to sacrafice large aspects of the second amendment rights in a mistaken attempt to save/protect their right to hunt.

Whether you do or do not like ARs does not define you as a Fudd. You're a Fudd if you think someone else should not own an AR because you mistakenly believe that others owning ARs or similar is jeopardizing you right to hunt and own traditional hunting guns. Fudd is about attitude towards rights not hardware.

Fudd is an adjective for guns and people who prefer older types of guns. It does NOT specifically apply to gun owners who want to see "assult weapon" type firearms banned although that can certainly be a characteristic of some, not all or even most, of them. I wasn't using it in the negative connotation that it's sometimes used in the context of gun control debates.

You are correct, no one in this thread has stated or implied that ARs, AKs, etc should be banned or restricted.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Let's see you shove that AR in a saddle scabbard there, cowboy.

35W

Id guess there are more AR in scabbard today than any other gun. Between horseback patrols and military motorcycles and atv.

I have exponentially more leverguns than I do AR.

I even have more lever action 22s than AR.....Hell I have more lever action Winchester 12 guages than I do AR....

Still a fine gun.

I have a scabbard for my AR that rides with me on my UTV.

As does the US military on horseback/ATV and even kawasaki KLR dual sport motorcycles. Id bet some mall cop somewhere has one on a Segway.

 

[entropy]

QUOTE="Styx, post: 12787168, member: 225743"]
Fudd is an adjective for guns and people who prefer older types of guns. It does NOT specifically apply to gun owners who want to see "assult weapon" type firearms banned although that can certainly be a characteristic of some, not all or even most, of them. You are correct, no one in this thread has stated or implied that ARs, AKs, etc should be banned or restricted.
[/QUOTE]


I'm going to agree with mcb on this. The correct term for those who like older gun designs is Luddite. Old fashioned could describe both. Like many of us here, I love older guns. I also love ARs and other current military designs. I guess the term for that might be well rounded.
There are some types of guns or certain uses of them I'm not terribly fond of myself, yet do not disparage others' like or use of them. ( Unless invasively criminal)
I guess the term for that might be libertarian, note the lack of the capital 'L'.

 

[mcb]

Fudd is an adjective for guns and people who prefer older types of guns. It does NOT specifically apply to gun owners who want to see "assult weapon" type firearms banned although that can certainly be a characteristic of some, not all or even most, of them. You are correct, no one in this thread has stated or implied that ARs, AKs, etc should be banned or restricted.

I guess I disagree, the term Fudd brings very negative connotations with it for many gun forum users. if you research the term Fudd and its use in the context of gun forums going back to the early 1990's its most often used as a derogatory term for gun owners that are more concerned about hunting rights than the totality of the 2nd amendment. Often they are willing to sacrifice some of those rights to protect their hunting rights. "Fudd guns" gets pulled along as a reference to the more traditional firearms they prefer but the term's origin in this negative context is still a reference to their attitude to gun rights and not the specific hardware.

If you want to talk about "Fudd guns", I would suggest words more like traditional or simply be specific with the model. For many of us the term Fudd brings very negative connotations that are often not warranted certainly not in this thread so far. If I use the term I mean it very negatively and thus use it sparingly. JMHO -rambling.

ETA: I like old guns and new guns (old cartridges and new cartridges too). Over the past few years this it the combination that goes with me nearly every time I go to the hunting property to work or play.

My 300 AAC Blackout "pistol-AR" and my old reliable S&W model 10. The both don't mind getting dirty while working/playing hard.

 

[35 Whelen]

You absolutely can get an AR in 300 win mag. Even 458 win mag. Is a 300 win mag AR a practical and reasonable choice? No not really.

For those of us that do like them there are plenty of small and medium frame AR chamberings thst are perfectly suitable for deer, elk, moose, black bear at normal hunting ranges. The world extends farther than your eyes see, but I’m not asking you to walk with me to see it.

Oh come on now......it goes without saying we're talking about AR-15's and their variants (M4 et al.)and the relatively medium range effective cartridges chambered therein. I realize that there are all sorts of rifles chambered for large hunting cartridges that are based on the original AR-15. I did a quick search and indeed found "AR" chambered in 300 WM. If someone wants to pay $2000 - $6000 for a 10-12 lb. (bare) rifle with which to hunt big game, I fully support them.
The cartridges that are AR15 chambered that will fit in the 5.56-length magazine are limited in their application. The original chambering, the .223, was never considered more than a medium range varmint cartridge until AR-15's became so popular. Did the platform somehow change the ballistics of the .223?? Nope. Some of the other cartridges are quite interesting, but they are all limited in range. I suppose if someone wants to hunt elk with an AR-15 and understands the limits of the cartridge, more power to 'em!
All that aside, the 450 BM is quite interesting, but why they decided it should use .452" (pistol) bullets completely escapes me.

35W

 

[Styx]

I guess I disagree, the term Fudd brings very negative connotations with it for many gun forum users. if you research the term Fudd and its use in the context of gun forums going back to the early 1990's its most often used as a derogatory term for gun owners that are more concerned about hunting rights than the totality of the 2nd amendment. Often they are willing to sacrifice some of those rights to protect their hunting rights. "Fudd guns" gets pulled along as a reference to the more traditional firearms they prefer but the term's origin in this negative context is still a reference to their attitude to gun rights and not the specific hardware.

If you want to talk about "Fudd guns", I would suggest words more like traditional or simply be specific with the model. For many of us the term Fudd brings very negative connotations that are often not warranted certainly not in this thread so far. If I use the term I mean it very negatively and thus use it sparingly. JMHO -rambling.

I see it used negatively in gun control debates. I more commonly used on a regular basis on AR, AK, popular semiauto manufacturer specific forums (forums that you and other members most likely aren't a part of) etc to as an adjective to describe a category of firearms and people only like those type of firearms while having absolutely nothing to do with gun control or wanting to see guns banned.

I get your point though on how it can be taken the wrong way.

 

[3Crows]

Fudd is an adjective for guns and people who prefer older types of guns.

The AR is not exactly new and is now potentially being replaced by the military it seems. Maybe the AR will become the next generation Fudd gun . Would it not be great if some were military surplussed to the civilian programs . In that unlikely event I might would buy another.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Do you actually believe that?

Well, yeah.

 

[Riomouse911]

Probably a lot of brass that went flying off into the wild blue yonder. And if not, you could probably take a nice vacation with the time you've spent gathering it up.

Try cleaning up after a Mini 14 if you think AR’s toss brass. All three of my minis can Bend it like Beckham when on the range.

Stay safe.

 

[BJung]

I like blue steel and wood myself. Military Surplus rifles were inexpensive when I was young and they were just as accurate to me for hunting. I've always reloaded too. Now older, I like older guns like rolling blocks and would consider a flintlock. That's just me and I respect other people's choice of guns. Either way, it's our 2nd Amendment Right..

 

[marksman13]

Lots of people of people have strong opinions. Lots of opinions suck. Lots of people suck. I like my ARs as much as I like my bolt guns and Ruger No. 1s. They all do something different for me. I’ve killed more deer and pigs with the lowly 5.56/223 than most people will kill in a lifetime and I laugh a little every time someone calls the cartridge/rifle combo of a 5.56 chambered AR-15 “inadequate”.

 

[35 Whelen]

View attachment 1185627


Id guess there are more AR in scabbard today than any other gun. Between horseback patrols and military motorcycles and atv.

I have exponentially more leverguns than I do AR.

I even have more lever action 22s than AR.....Hell I have more lever action Winchester 12 guages than I do AR....

Still a fine gun.




As does the US military on horseback/ATV and even kawasaki KLR dual sport motorcycles. Id bet some mall cop somewhere has one on a Segway.

LOL. Neat concept, but that's not a saddle scabbard. These are saddle scabbards-

I've spent quite a bit of time hunting the western mountains and I've yet to see an AR-15 attached to a saddle in any way. Maybe I was just in the wrong place. Or maybe people who hunt mountain game such as deer, elk, sheep, etc. don't use AR-15's.

35W

 

[Bazoo]

I don't own one currently, though I have owned several in the past. I don't dislike them, but I don't particularly care for them. I do like the history of their development. I like the aesthetics of an A2 rifle, and the 2 I've owned in the past were both Bushmaster A2 rifles. They have a solid heft and look right with a fixed carry handle, 20" barrel, and fixed buttstock.

The carbines look and feel more like a toy to me. I'm very large though, at 6'5" and 330 pounds.

Aesthetics plays a role in my choices for gun selection. I know many here will scoff at the idea.... making their selection purely from a spreadsheet of data points and then forcing themselves to train with a gun they don't care for. Guns aren't merely a tool for me though. They are a connection history, and hobby that involves pleasure gained from using a finely finished piece of mechanical engineering.

AR15's primary role in today's world is as a defensive weapon. Yes, it can be used for hunting, and of course, shooting sports. I'm not particularly into shooting sports.

I would like another A2 Rifle. The ones I had previously, well, the last one, was very accurate. It was fun to mess with. The first, I don't know if it was accurate or not. After new rifle sight in, all I did was mag dumps with it. I burned through a couple cases of ammo, then swapped it to a buddy and ended up getting a Weatherby Mark V Deluxe, which in turn was traded.

 

[BreechFace]

I've had my own range here at the house for almost 20 years. Until a range fire destroyed my 600 yd. target stand, I allowed the local 4-H shooting team to come out, with their AR-15's, and practice their prone slow before their annual trek to Camp Perry. I enjoyed watching them and even spotted for them. But there were a couple of buddies who soured me; one with a bump stock who sprayed bullets all over hells half acre, another who "mag dumped" one of my steel targets with tracers when I told him to NOT shoot the steel with tracers (we were under horrid drought conditions and those active tracers were ricocheting all over the pasture)and a smattering of others whose only interest was to see how quickly they could empty magazines.

35W

Your range, your rules. Simple as that. If certain individuals can’t abide by your rules, they can kick rocks.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I have a habit of adding the "15" after "AR", but just about every caliber you just listed can be had in the AR platform.

About the only mainstream rifle cartridge for the AR-15 is 5.56 NATO. Am I wrong? Most, were designed trading performance for OAL cartridge length.

Of course the AR-15 can shoot just about any cartridge that's short enough to fit the standard length magazine. If you want 6.5 mm, Grendel would be one if you don't mind the poor ballistics. Can it shoot 6.5 CM? Nope. Looking for 6 mm in an AR-15? 6mm ARC would be one. Can it shoot 6 CM. Nope.

Lots of trade offs there, but I'm sure I don't mind.

 

[Styx]

The AR is not exactly new and is now potentially being replaced by the military it seems. Maybe the AR will become the next generation Fudd gun . Would it not be great if some were military surplussed to the civilian programs . In that unlikely event I might would buy another.

You are right. When/If the military comes out with something else different, popular, are arguably better than the AR15, those who are being born around that time will mostly beleive the AR15 is a Fudd gun. Those who grew up with the AR15 will naturally think otherwise.

We basically have two camps and two types of people in these holy war debates.

Old vs New Generation Holy War

Each new generation of gun owners seems to be more critical of the firearms the older generation uses, e.g., bolt action, lever action, revolvers, etc. Each older generation seems to like what they like and grew up on, so they will have some hostility toward any new and arguably "improved" firearms and gadgets.

Primarily Rural Hunter vs Tactical Self-Defense Holy War

Then people who only primarily hunt and shoot old fashioned and "traditional" [@mcb] firearms who see no point or need to own more tactical firearms. They will have negative opinions (some true and some misinformed) about why they do not like the more tactical stuff that will trigger those who do like it.

Then we will have the high capacity semiautos only crowd who are mostly defensive minded who feel no need for low capacity old fashioned firearms. They will make both valid and ignorant comments about revolvers, bolt action rifles, and anything that they deem inferior for defensive purposes. Their comments will trigger the rual hunting/horseback riding folks.

 

[Bazoo]

I've always had an interest in the Mini 14, not sure why. I seen a magazine article once about some old timer in Alaska, he was using a stainless and wood Mini 14, and I thought it was cool as heck. You get the firepower that you want, coupled with a gun that feels and looks traditional.

 

[Styx]

I didn't list any calibers. Of course the AR-15 can shoot just about any cartridge that's short enough to fit the standard length magazine. If you want 6.5 mm, Grendel would be one if you don't mind the poor ballistics. Can it shoot 6.5 CM? Nope. Looking for 6 mm in an AR-15? 6mm ARC would be one. Can it shoot 6 CM. Nope.

Lots of trade offs there, but I'm sure I don't mind.

CoalTrain, yes, you can buy an AR in 6.5 CM. I've stated this already several times. Almost every caliber or chamber you can think of can be had in the AR platform. I've pointed this out to you several times already.

FYI: I corrected myself in the very comment you posted. I originally meant to say "AR Platform."

Below are only some that Bud's offers for sale, but there are others that aren't listed on Bud's.

6.5mm Creedmoor AR Rifles for Sale - Buds Gun Shop

Browse our 6.5mm Creedmoor AR Rifles on BudsGunShop.com. Use our advanced product search tools to find exactly what you are looking for!

www.budsgunshop.com

6mm Arc AR Rifles for Sale - Buds Gun Shop

Browse our 6mm Arc AR Rifles on BudsGunShop.com. Use our advanced product search tools to find exactly what you are looking for!

www.budsgunshop.com

 

[BreechFace]

LOL. Neat concept, but that's not a saddle scabbard. These are saddle scabbards-

I've spent quite a bit of time hunting the western mountains and I've yet to see an AR-15 attached to a saddle in any way. Maybe I was just in the wrong place. Or maybe people who hunt mountain game such as deer, elk, sheep, etc. don't use AR-15's.

35W

The problem @35 Whelen is you aren’t around the new “Yellowstone” Cowboys/Horsemen. They all have AR’s in their scabbard wearing Filson.

 

[35 Whelen]

You are right. When/If the military comes out with something else different, popular, are arguably better than the AR15, those who are being born around that time will mostly beleive the AR15 is a Fudd gun. Those who grew up with the AR15 will naturally think otherwise.

We basically have two camps and two types of people in these holy war debates.

Old vs New Generation Holy War

Each new generation of gun owners seems to be more critical of the firearms the older generation uses, e.g., bolt action, lever action, revolvers, etc. Each older generation seems to like what they like and grew up on, so they will have some hostility toward any new and arguably "improved" firearms and gadgets.

Primarily Rural Hunter vs Tactical Self-Defense Holy War

Then people who only primarily hunt and shoot old fashioned and "traditional" [@mcb] firearms who see no point or need to own more tactical firearms. They will have negative opinions (some true and some misinformed) about why they do like the more tactical stuff that will trigger those who do like it.

Then we will have the high capacity semiautos only crowd who are mostly defensive minded against threads who feel no need for low capacity old fashioned firearms. They will make both valid and ignorant comments about revolvers, bolt action rifles, and anything that they deem inferior for defensive purposes.

Grasshoppa, you ah wise beyond your years.

35W

 

[Gun-Reck]

If minute of coffee can lid accuracy is all you need, there's no sense in not paying a lot more for a mini and mini magazines.

As my 580-Series Mini-14 shoots <3MOA with aperture sights and M193 ball ammo?

More like a minute of coffee cup.

And, yes, < 6" at 200 yards, from a carbine with aperture sights, from field positions? Is fine by me.

Good steel Ruger OEM mags can be had for ~ $25 as well.

 

[CraigC]

I think a lot of folks need to pigeon-hole themselves into one camp or another. I think variety is the spice of life and having an open mind about such things (not everything) is a good thing. I love spending the early fall season hunting with this thing, which I put together and finished from a Kibler kit and thoroughly enjoyed. I also made the bag.

And then when the leaves fall off, I may switch to something like this. Also assembled by yours truly, also a lot of fun to put plan and together.

Or maybe something that bridges the gap between the two? 300's at 1000fps have a nice thump when you don't have the muzzle blast. I don't care about them pigeonholes, I like it and it's fun.

 

[entropy]

[

Oh come on now......it goes without saying we're talking about AR-15's and their variants (M4 et al.)and the relatively medium range effective cartridges chambered therein. I realize that there are all sorts of rifles chambered for large hunting cartridges that are based on the original AR-15. I did a quick search and indeed found "AR" chambered in 300 WM. If someone wants to pay $2000 - $6000 for a 10-12 lb. (bare) rifle with which to hunt big game, I fully support them.
The cartridges that are AR15 chambered that will fit in the 5.56-length magazine are limited in their application. The original chambering, the .223, was never considered more than a medium range varmint cartridge until AR-15's became so popular. Did the platform somehow change the ballistics of the .223?? Nope. Some of the other cartridges are quite interesting, but they are all limited in range. I suppose if someone wants to hunt elk with an AR-15 and understands the limits of the cartridge, more power to 'em!
All that aside, the 450 BM is quite interesting, but why they decided it should use .452" (pistol) bullets completely escapes me.

35W

Actually, the thread title just says AR. It does not specify further. Thus Noreen and Omen magnum calibered ARs, as well as AR-10s fit into this discussion.