Who doesn’t own/like AR’s?

[CoalTrain49]

Oh come on now......it goes without saying we're talking about AR-15's and their variants (M4 et al.)and the relatively medium range effective cartridges chambered therein. I realize that there are all sorts of rifles chambered for large hunting cartridges that are based on the original AR-15. I did a quick search and indeed found "AR" chambered in 300 WM. If someone wants to pay $2000 - $6000 for a 10-12 lb. (bare) rifle with which to hunt big game, I fully support them.
The cartridges that are AR15 chambered that will fit in the 5.56-length magazine are limited in their application. The original chambering, the .223, was never considered more than a medium range varmint cartridge until AR-15's became so popular. Did the platform somehow change the ballistics of the .223?? Nope. Some of the other cartridges are quite interesting, but they are all limited in range. I suppose if someone wants to hunt elk with an AR-15 and understands the limits of the cartridge, more power to 'em!
All that aside, the 450 BM is quite interesting, but why they decided it should use .452" (pistol) bullets completely escapes me.

35W

All that aside, the 450 BM is quite interesting, but why they decided it should use .452" (pistol) bullets completely escapes me.

A .430'' dia bullet would have been more useful for reloaders. It's really too bad that the magazines of AR-15's limit cartridge design.

 

[CoalTrain49]

CoalTrain, yes, you can buy an AR in 6.5 CM. I've stated this already several times. Almost every caliber or chamber you can think of can be had in the AR platform. I've pointed this out to you several times already.

FYI: I corrected myself in the very comment you posted. I originally meant to say "AR Platform."

Below are only some that Bud's offers for sale, but there are others that aren't listed on Bud's.

6.5mm Creedmoor AR Rifles for Sale - Buds Gun Shop

Browse our 6.5mm Creedmoor AR Rifles on BudsGunShop.com. Use our advanced product search tools to find exactly what you are looking for!

www.budsgunshop.com

6mm Arc AR Rifles for Sale - Buds Gun Shop

Browse our 6mm Arc AR Rifles on BudsGunShop.com. Use our advanced product search tools to find exactly what you are looking for!

www.budsgunshop.com

6.5 CM would be an AR-10, correct? I wasn't considering the AR-10 so I missed that.

 

[Styx]

6.5 CM would be an AR-10, correct? I wasn't considering the AR-10 soI missed that.

Yes, but it's all the same platform as you already know. Not much different than a Ruger American and Savage Axis in 2.23 is on the same platform as their 6.5cm. The difference only main difference is the components of one are built larger and more bulky than the other.

 

[crestoncowboy]

LOL. Neat concept, but that's not a saddle scabbard. These are saddle scabbards-

I've spent quite a bit of time hunting the western mountains and I've yet to see an AR-15 attached to a saddle in any way. Maybe I was just in the wrong place. Or maybe people who hunt mountain game such as deer, elk, sheep, etc. don't use AR-15's.

35W

I'm not shocked by the lack of varmint rifles you see big game hunting......

I hunted on horseback some too but carried my bolt gun slung. Had a buddy who was a rodeo heeler insisted on hunting via horse.

We have 3 but as much as I despise plastic and parkerized guns.. I hate horses more. Give me an ATV or motorcycle anyday

 

[BIZERKO666]

Own a bunch, like them all. Each one is a little different. Each has its purpose.
For me it’s like a tool.

 

[mcb]

Oh come on now......it goes without saying we're talking about AR-15's and their variants (M4 et al.)and the relatively medium range effective cartridges chambered therein. I realize that there are all sorts of rifles chambered for large hunting cartridges that are based on the original AR-15. I did a quick search and indeed found "AR" chambered in 300 WM. If someone wants to pay $2000 - $6000 for a 10-12 lb. (bare) rifle with which to hunt big game, I fully support them.
The cartridges that are AR15 chambered that will fit in the 5.56-length magazine are limited in their application. The original chambering, the .223, was never considered more than a medium range varmint cartridge until AR-15's became so popular. Did the platform somehow change the ballistics of the .223?? Nope. Some of the other cartridges are quite interesting, but they are all limited in range. I suppose if someone wants to hunt elk with an AR-15 and understands the limits of the cartridge, more power to 'em!
All that aside, the 450 BM is quite interesting, but why they decided it should use .452" (pistol) bullets completely escapes me.

35W

If someone desired they can ethically kill any critter in North America with a cartridge limited to an OAL of 2.26 inches. 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM and 50 Beowulf will all do that very ethically and all three cartridge were designed specifically for the AR-15 with minimal changes to the original platform.

Tangent, .452 vs .458 in this modern age of bullets makes almost no difference. When the 450 Bushmaster came on the scene the 454 Casull and 460 S&W (and some saboted muzzle loader bullets) had already been around for some time and pushed manufactures to make .452 diameter bullets that could handle the rifle type velocities and energies those cartridges produced, so even when 450 BM was a fledgling cartridge there were already lots of great bullets to be used. With the moderately good commercial success of 450 Bushmaster we have only seen that selection grow and grow. If you shop most of the big online reloading supply places they offer more selection in .452 diameter bullets than .458 diameter bullets in part due to the popularity of 454C, 460S&W and 450BM.


This Barnes 275gr TSX .452 diameter bullet went length wise through a 140lb doe. In behind the ear breaking the neck as it passed down its length, breaking two ribs going into the body cavity exiting through the abdomen just in front of the rear legs. It then went through another foot of chert where I found it with a metal detector. 95% weight retention. I would use this load on any animal in North America with confidence.

The 2.26 OAL is a limitation but one that has not been that much of a limit with modern bullets and propellents. If we include the AR-10 from which the AR-15 was derived the potential only grows that much more allowing cartridges with an OAL of ~2.80.

The AR-15 has proven to be a very flexible and adaptable platform.

 

[someguy2800]

Oh come on now......it goes without saying we're talking about AR-15's and their variants (M4 et al.)and the relatively medium range effective cartridges chambered therein. I realize that there are all sorts of rifles chambered for large hunting cartridges that are based on the original AR-15. I did a quick search and indeed found "AR" chambered in 300 WM. If someone wants to pay $2000 - $6000 for a 10-12 lb. (bare) rifle with which to hunt big game, I fully support them.
The cartridges that are AR15 chambered that will fit in the 5.56-length magazine are limited in their application. The original chambering, the .223, was never considered more than a medium range varmint cartridge until AR-15's became so popular. Did the platform somehow change the ballistics of the .223?? Nope. Some of the other cartridges are quite interesting, but they are all limited in range. I suppose if someone wants to hunt elk with an AR-15 and understands the limits of the cartridge, more power to 'em!
All that aside, the 450 BM is quite interesting, but why they decided it should use .452" (pistol) bullets completely escapes me.

35W

AR includes AR15 and AR10 and any AR derived platform. AR10 included any 308 based case and also 300 WSM based case. What you are saying is just frankly not true.

Even if you restrict it to AR15 only there are cartridges that are suitable for taking any game in North America.

I have AR15’s in 358 yeti and 45 raptor. 358 yeti shoots a 180 grain at 2500 fps and 45 raptor shoots a 300 grain at 2200 fps, both from a 16” barrel. What can you not kill with that? Yes they are range limited cartridges so they will not replace a 300 win mag, but not every hunting situation has the potential for long shots and an AR15 is not the most practical choice for every possible situation.



Other similarly powerful AR15 2.3” rounds include:

30 sabercat
7mm Valkyrie
444 deerslayer
6.5 Timberwolf
358 WSSM
300 WSSM
300 OSSM
6.5/243 WSSM
458 Socom
50 Beowulf
375 Socom

Some of these are short range thumpers. Some of them are easily 400 yard elk capable cartridges. If that’s not enough you can keep going with 308 class cartridges is an AR10, or one of the AR15 sized platforms that take 308 length cartridges such as the DPMS G2, Savage MSR10, POF Revolution, or Ruger SFAR. How about an AR10 in 300 WSM? Is that not long range enough?

KAK 300 WSM AR10 Long Range Day

youtu.be

I’ve been there and done it and you’re trying to tell me what I already own and have used with great success doesn’t exist. I don’t care if you like AR’s and wouldn’t try to convince you that you should. It’s like people that drag race Volkswagens. Is an air cooled Volkswagen the best platform for a drag car? Absolutely not, but people like them and they make them go 7’s at 200 mph in the 1/4 and they don’t care what we think about it. I like AR’s and I like hunting with them and I don’t care what you think about it.

 

[BreechFace]

In regards to the 450 Bushmaster

What @mcb said. Personally, the fact they used .452 bullets was the selling point to me over .458 bullets.

There already was good tough bullets to use for hunting and now bullet manufacturers have put out some really good bullets in the .452. And I can shoot .452 pistol bullets at subsonic speeds and get great expansion and affordable to boot.

Seems to me they knew EXACTLY what they were doing when designing it around the .452.

 

[allisd17]

Probably a lot of brass that went flying off into the wild blue yonder. And if not, you could probably take a nice vacation with the time you've spent gathering it up.

If you think finding AR brass is hard, try shooting an M1 carbine. Not only does brass fly every which direction, it gets sooty and blends in well with dirt.

 

[someguy2800]

A .430'' dia bullet would have been more useful for reloaders. It's really too bad that the magazines of AR-15's limit cartridge design.

Bruce Finnegan makes a .430” cartridge he calls 444 deerslayer. It’s basically a 45 raptor case run through a shortened 444 marlin die. I would really like to build an SFAR in a full length rimless 444 marlin using cut off 30/06 brass but I only have so much time and money for silly projects I don’t really need.

 

[CraigC]

All that aside, the 450 BM is quite interesting, but why they decided it should use .452" (pistol) bullets completely escapes me.

A .430'' dia bullet would have been more useful for reloaders. It's really too bad that the magazines of AR-15's limit cartridge design.

I'm pretty sure the .454 and .460S&W ensure plenty of good bullets for its velocity range.

 

[d2wing]

Who doesn’t own one or like them and why? Imo all they are good for is mag dumps and shooting games, but i am a hunter and all my long guns are hunting related. I have been debating really hard on getting one but really all i can see myself using it for would be coyote hunting and maybe shooting games, steel plate shooting, etc. i just don’t see a practical purpose. Anyone else the same?

Maybe i would be more suited with a PCR. I am slightly intrigued by the AR after handling a few today and shooting one. I’m thinking maybe it would be fun and if i end up hating it i could sell it.

AR's handle well and are plenty powerful for whitetail deer and similar game if you know how to hunt and shoot. Many people are bigoted against them and that's fine with me. don't like them don't buy them. I don't care.
.223 55 Gr PSP. 275 Lbs. 14 pts.

 

[wombat13]

Think of Louisiana, if you can stand the heat. In 2012 we passed a constitutional amendment to strengthen 2d Amendment rights in the state, I think by 70%.

We like snow and my wife dislikes intense heat. Otherwise I'd be considering southern states.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Never had any interest in the .223 so I never gravitated to the AR.
Nowadays you can get any flavor you want, so can I get an AR10 in 30-30?
More realistically I would love to try out an AR9 ‘pistol’ with one of the recoil reduction systems, but the revenuers have me nervous about the long term with the AR pistols.

 

[TarDevil]

Boat: a hole in the water surrounded by wood into which one throws money.

Oh yeah. But I must like 'em. I've got 4 wood boats.

 

[3Crows]

It just does not matter what cartridge an AR is chambered in. Beyond the one rifle I have, I would have no further interest .

 

[ms6852]

Personally I do not like them, but I own a couple of them just in case I ever need to level the playing field. God forbid it comes to that point. But you know that old cliché you got fight fire with fire.

 

[Pat Riot]

Nowadays you can get any flavor you want, so can I get an AR10 in 30-30?

Sign me up! I want one, if for nothing else to watch the reactions on people’s faces when they ask about my AR and I tell them it’s a 30-30.

 

[BreechFace]

Good luck getting a rimmed cartridge to work in an AR.

The 30 Sabercat would be a good option for 30-30 performance in an AR15. But it’s creating your own brass.

 

[mcb]

For all the naysayers that don't like the AR-15 (an opinion they are more than welcome to have) if we simply replaced AR with single action revolver this would be a thread I could have started. My point is each to his own. I like the AR and given current market support and flexibility in cartridges I have found they can be used for a lot of different applications. That said for every application you might use an AR for you can find a different rifle that could do the job equally well if not better in some cases.

 

[DMW1116]

Never had any interest in the .223 so I never gravitated to the AR.
Nowadays you can get any flavor you want, so can I get an AR10 in 30-30?
More realistically I would love to try out an AR9 ‘pistol’ with one of the recoil reduction systems, but the revenuers have me nervous about the long term with the AR pistols.

The 350 Legend is a straight walled 30-30 for AR platforms. Similar weight bullets, similar velocity. Some 300 Blackout loadings with 150 grain bullets are close as well.

 

[mavracer]

[

Actually, the thread title just says AR. It does not specify further. Thus Noreen and Omen magnum calibered ARs, as well as AR-10s fit into this discussion.

I'd also point out the AR10 was actually first, Stoner scaled it down to the 223 cartridge afterwards.

 

[InTheSwamp]

I'd also point out the AR10 was actually first, Stoner scaled it down to the 223 cartridge afterwards.

Stoner and Jim Sullivan.

 

[mcb]

The 350 Legend is a straight walled 30-30 for AR platforms. Similar weight bullets, similar velocity. Some 300 Blackout loadings with 150 grain bullets are close as well.

300 Ham'r is another good cartridge the replicates much of the 30-30 performance but compatible with the AR platform.

 

[Jonah77]

One can sit and take time plinking with an AR just as slow as one can with a bolt gun. The second half of your statement is why an AR might be a better rifle for coyotes for you, particularly with a can on it.



When one learns how to properly clean and lube an AR, such problems disappear.



The real reason they have attained the popularity that they have. When they were available only from Colt, in military form and caliber, most buyers were veterans. When they started to branch out into different calibers, there was more interest from hunters. This roughly coincided with the politicos starting to openly say they wanted to take them away, which spurred their popularity even more.

Personally, after I got out of the Army, after having to work on them, I wasn't all that keen on them. I did build an XM-177E2 clone not long after I got out, mostly as a contingency rifle. I sold it right before the AW ban went into effect for way more than I had into it. Didn't buy one myself for many years after that, though I built a few AKs in the meantime. Then my son wanted to trade his DPMS Sportical fir a couple of my guns, so I owned an AR again.

That got the juices flowing again, and I built a couple in a couple years, then gifted the Sportical back to my son for Christmas.

Then came the riots in Minneapolis, and SWMBO wanted to learn to use my HD guns, but didn't like the shotguns or handguns. She chose my 10.5" AR pistol as her HD gun. So I had to build another one for me....then I had a lower sitting around.... I digress.

For those that believe Cooper's "poodle shooter" moniker for .223, yes it was based on a varmint round (.222 Rem.) but it was put into a service rifle designed for killing bipedal mammals with an average weight right around a whitetail deer's.
It will kill whitetail deer very well, though correct bullet placement is a must, unlike with some other popular deer calibers where there is some 'wiggle room's ballistically. Not the best choice for the average hunter for a deer drive gun, though my son has taken several deer that way with his AR.

The AR is ubiquitously American. It can be built from the ground up in a million different variations by almost anyone, is available in calibers from .22LR to .458 SOCOM, and higher in custom guns. We all like walnut and steel, I'm no exception there, but like the Minutemen of 1776, if the call comes, it isn't one of my Mosins or a Mauser I'm grabbing, it's an AR. Hopefully, that call will never come, and I'll happily hunt, plunk, and compete using that same AR.
As well as that Mauser.

Worthy of a pin… You have addressed the histrionics against it, the benefits and minor drawbacks and lead us back to “ ‘Merica”. Concise, well written and appreciated, sir.

Saved me another four pages of reading…lol.