who has the best .380 BULLET?

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I am not missing the point, i understand penetration is critical, however i think with modern bullet technology (hence this thread) and proper speed it is possible to make a .380 hollow point a decent penetrator, am I completely wrong?
Well your not going to get the kind of penetration with a 90gr expanding bullet that you would with a fmj bullet even if you juice up the the cartridge with the expanding bullet.

If your goal is 9mm ballistics then IMO the solution is to go with a 9mm pistol.
 
I just loaded a Berry's plated bullet in a .380 case as long as I could get it to feed in a P3AT. I had to keep in under 1" to get it to fit in the magazine, but .995" fit just fine and it chambers OK. I chambered and ejected it a half dozen times and remeasured it and the bullet didn't move. That extra 10 mils should reduce the chamber pressure by about 1000 psi, which means I can add another tenth or so of powder...

I may be able to get a 100 grain bullet to 950+ fps from this tiny barrel after all, and still stay under SAAMI pressure limits. 1000 fps will still be pushing it though because the barrel is so short (about 70 mm.)

If I can I hit anything with it is a totally different question :rolleyes:
 
I'm not a reloader but I have to question all this berry bullet stuff. If you don't increase the pressure how can you get better velocities? Higher velocity is a product of higher pressure period!

Also if it were as simple as you say why hasen't any of the cartridge manufacturers done what you think would increase velocity without exceeding SAMI pressures? Certainly the people that make ammo would have done this long ago if it were that easy to get better performance without increasing pressures above SAMI limits.
 
I'm exceeding the SAAMI case length limit. That increases the case volume, lowering the pressure significantly and lowering the velocity slightly. (I don't know how they will shoot yet)
 
I'm exceeding the SAAMI case length limit. That increases the case volume, lowering the pressure significantly and lowering the velocity slightly. (I don't know how they will shoot yet)
Than I guess I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish!

Lowering velocity seems to be oposite of what we need in the 380 round.
 
Also, I would suggest using something besides a plated bullet, they don't hold up as well under speed&pressure as well as a hard cast w/ gas check or a jacketed bullet does.
 
Dont mess with HP ammo. the 380 is too limited for reliable expansion and adequate penetration. FMJ and shot placement, or just carry something bigger.
 
Fiocchi XTP rounds had "poor expansion all rounds ended up facing back toward shooter."
That's not a bad thing. They expanded a little and they tumbled upon impact, and they had decent penetration.
Than I guess I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish! Lowering velocity seems to be oposite of what we need in the 380 round.
Increasing the case capacity let me use more powder and get higher velocity without exceeding SAAMI pressure limits. For example, if 4.5 grains and a length of .980" gives me 960 fps but the pressure is 21000 psi, lengthening the cartridge to .995" might drop the velocity to 950 fps and drop the pressure to 19500. 950 is faster than I can get at .985" or less with any amount of powder and stay below SAAMI pressure limits.

(that's one of the reasons .45 Colt cartridges can approach .44 Magnum performance while operating at 10000 psi less pressure -- they have more volume, so it doesn't take as much pressure to get there.)

FWIW, I'm sorry I brought up the topic.
 
That's not a bad thing. They expanded a little and they tumbled upon impact, and they had decent penetration.
Increasing the case capacity let me use more powder and get higher velocity without exceeding SAAMI pressure limits. For example, if 4.5 grains and a length of .980" gives me 960 fps but the pressure is 21000 psi, lengthening the cartridge to .995" might drop the velocity to 950 fps and drop the pressure to 19500. 950 is faster than I can get at .985" or less with any amount of powder and stay below SAAMI pressure limits.

(that's one of the reasons .45 Colt cartridges can approach .44 Magnum performance while operating at 10000 psi less pressure -- they have more volume, so it doesn't take as much pressure to get there.)

FWIW, I'm sorry I brought up the topic.
Ok and let us know what happens.
 
Some of you may be overlooking one important part of the FBI ballistic test protocol's recommended minimum 12-18" of penetration: the barriers.

Service calibers are supposed to reach 12 to 18 inches even after going through heavy clothing, wallboard, plywood, automobile windshield glass or door steel. 380ACP simply does not have the power to do this (especially the last two) but should come closest if FMJ is used. Hollowpoints that only go 8-12" in bare gelatin probably won't do as well unless they completely fail to open so why spend extra for them then hope they don't work?

Theoretically a flat meplat will cause more damage and straighter penetration after hitting obstacles like bone than round nose. I prefer either the 95gr Winchester component (which is used in factory WWB) at about 14 cents or better, the 100gr X-Treme plated flat nose at about 7 cents each. It's heavier, cheaper, TMJ and bonded. Neither will deform in water jugs or gelatin at low 380ACP speeds and pressures.

BTW the tests at Brassfetcher use calibrated gelatin and show about 21" of penetration for FMJ into bare gelatin from a 2.75" barrel: http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP ammunition performance in ballistic gelatin.pdf This seems perfectly adequate and fully assembled cartridges are only 32 cents at your local Walmart.
 
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Personally I don't buy into the Golden Saber Hype. The difference in sectional density between a 95gr bullet and a 102gr bullet is pretty small. If you are loading a 102 for the greater penetration I would personally use a 90-95gr flat nosed bullet and load it to a higher velocity and you'll get plenty of penetration. If you look at tests of the factory Golden Sabers I think the "greater penetration" is more of an assumption rather than a fact due to its lower velocity. If you want an expanding load use something like the XTP or Gold Dot and work a load up to the higher higher velocity range and they should work fine too.
 
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=375838

How about the Remington Golden Saber?
102 grains. Consider that defensive engagement will be 10 feet or less.

Lets face it, during personal defense you're not going to mimic a tank or artillery round; engagemnt is going to be up close and personal.
Again, if you look at the Ballistic Gelatin tests at........
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

you will see that the 102gr Golden Saber does not expand when fired from the P-3AT.
 
Turns out I'm not a fan of Golden Sabres :(

the unexpanded one was shot into semi saturated magazines (soaked for 30 hours)

the inside-out one was shot into water
 

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Honady Critical Defense 90 gr is a good solid round for the 380. I also like PDX1 in the 380. I have seen some of those expand to some pretty amazing dimensions, while still retaining much of their weight. Hydra Shoks are always good.
 
Winchester Ranger STX if you can find them. They are the legal version of Black Talons, and they rip through everything I shoot them at. They're wicked.

Webb
 
Where do I begin?

I am a big fan of the .380 round and have been carrying one type of gun or another in that caliber, daily, for as long as I have had a permit to carry. Lots of opinions and speculation in this thread, I would just like to tell you what I KNOW. I KNOW that the 102 grain Golden Saber bullet is capable of expanding reliably when fired from a Kel-Tec, to a diameter of 630 digitally measured thousandths of an inch. They dont always expand reliably, especially when they strike at an angle. But they do stay bonded and until the Hornady Critical Defense came along they were my #1 choice, a close second was the Winchester Silver Tip (no longer in production in .380) they expanded to 590 thousandths of an inch, again, not always reliably.
There are lots of good choices out there, but it was not lost on me that this thread is titled "best .380 BULLET" rather than best .380 ammo, that being said, it is worth noting that Double Tap uses the 102 grain .380 Golden Saber bullet in the production of thier defensive ammo, which is produced to "high" velocities. Good choices for .380 ammo also include, as mentioned by a previous poster, the new Winchester SXT, which is just a reincarnated (and improved) version of the famous Black Talon.
The problem with rounds like the Corbon and Federal HST is that thier flat bullet profile is not always conducive to reliable feeding in many of the "pocket" .380s now on the market, then there are others like the Remington 90 grain hollowpoint that almost always result in the separation of the bullet from the jacket when fired into pretty much anything other than paper targets, or the Wolf "Gold Series" hollowpoint that doesnt even have enough power to knock down a steel plate target at a distance of 12 yards that a standard 95 grain bullet from pretty much any other manufacturer could do easily. Its a slippery slope when you are trusting your life to a .380, choose wisely.
 
Personally I'm a big fan of ballistic gelatin tests because unlike water or wet news print ballistic gelatin closely simulates the density and viscosity of human and animal muscle tissue.

In the Goldenloki ballistic gelatin tests of the 380 round fired from a P3AT the Golden Saber round consistently failed to expand.

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

I'm not paying $1.00 a round for 29 cents a round performance.
 
The Golden Sabres in the pictures I put up clock at 1100fps from a PPK/s, so im guessing they were moving at about 1000 from my TCP.
FREERANGETIME! , a few things, first, this sentence makes no sense:
I KNOW that the 102 grain Golden Saber bullet is capable of expanding reliably when fired from a Kel-Tec, to a diameter of 630 digitally measured thousandths of an inch. They dont always expand reliably, especially when they strike at an angle.
also, SXT's suck, Federal doesn't make a .380 HST load, and clearly Golden Sabres don't always stay bonded :rolleyes:
 
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