Who Is Teaching These People That This Behavior Is Acceptable?

[shafter]

Anytime you get a bunch of guys together, usually military/LE in one place you're going to hear the "I'm gonna shoot you" comments among buddies. It's a part of the comradery and means nothing. Cops will also frequently half draw their weapons to ingrain muscle memory in acquiring a grip and manipulating the retention. Again, this isn't cause for alarm.

However, and this is a big however, these things should not be happening in the public eye. An officer who is half drawing his weapon and making comments about shooting patients in a hospital where people can see and hear is way out of line. A complaint to the department wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, there's a big difference between doing a half draw at the station and actually removing a loaded gun from the holster. Guns should be unloaded prior to practice and should be pointed in a safe direction and never at each other, even when unloaded.

 

[loose noose]

Man things sure have changed since I was a cop in southern California, I've never seen things described on this forum happen when I was a policeman or a Detective. I have heard of rogue cops in other substations or departments, but that was the exception rather than the rule. Further at the church I go to, there are quite a few cops, retired as well as active, of which I'm certain they are all CCW, however we don't flaunt it and quite personally I don't pay much attention to it. Reckon maybe I ought to get out more.

 

[Drail]

To the OP's question - no one is "teaching" these people. The problem is no has ever taught them - or it didn't take. Children do stupid stuff because they are ignorant. And then they are corrected by an adult. What these guys who are careless with or play with guns need is my old Drill Instructor. That guy could fix ignorance, stupidity, or attitude problems like a true professional. Some recruit swung an M 16 muzzle on him one day in boot camp. That idiot will NEVER make that "error" again. It might sound cruel but handling firearms is critical stuff and safety needs to be understood and respected. There is NO ROOM for horseplay with guns. I have actually instructed some LEOs and the gunhandling I saw was truly disturbing. They had obviously not had any safety training at all. One cop fired a round between my legs into the ground and his attitude was like "stuff happens dude." All the other cops were laughing.

 

[1911 guy]

The problem is that nobody is teaching them much of anything. They already know it all and don't want to find out otherwise.

 

[JeffG]

Officers like the one in the OP don't realize how scrutinized, how easily inappropriate, and how alarming their behavior can be. Just jogging across the street to get to your parked squad car can set citizens in the "uh oh, this is bad" mode. Playing with your pistol outside the locker room, and making stupid comments.....no. I think the OP officer was out of line, someone should as politely as possible contact his supervisor; an on the spot correction, like, "knock that crap off" might be warranted. Most command police personnel are mature and would not think this was ok.

 

[BrocLuno]

I don't even volunteer that I *own* a gun unless the other person first says they do.

Except obliquely here and a very few other forums, I don't talk about weapons outside of a VERY SMALL circle. And never in public...

 

[DeepSouth]

Ever heard the term "pooled ignorance"

You've found a good example of it.

 

[JohnKSa]

There are people who know for a fact I carry and who have never seen my carry gun.

I know why I carry a gun and I know I don't carry it for show & tell. Some people never figure that out. Some people never even try to figure it out.

I don't want my gun to go off unless I want it to and I know it can't go off accidentally while it's holstered. Some people never figure that out. Some people never even try to figure it out.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

As far as filing a complaint against the cop goes, I'm sorry guys but I live in a very real world. If I file a complaint he's going to know exactly who and where it came from. I don't know that he'd retaliate directly but he wouldn't have to.

He works with the Crisis Response Team. He goes out with the Doctors and a couple of paramedics and brings in the crazies. His job is to protect the doctors and they all love him.

I, on the other hand, am an eminently replaceable, contract security guard. All it would take is an email to my boss and I'd find myself guarding telephone poles in the snow on third shift.

Like I said I live in a very real world

 

[Decoy80]

That sort of thing is fuel for the fire for the liberal anti gun folks. Action like you are describing is very unprofessional especially for a sworn officer to be doing. I hope that I never brandish my carry friends even accidentally when bending over tying my shoe. I also hope that I'm never going to be in the sad situation of having to point one at another human being. I feel a duty to myself, family, and my fellow citizens to exercise my right to carry. Anyone who takes the huge burden on should be serious about it and never make a joke of it. If all law abiding citizens would take the duty on to seriously carry imagine how much less crime against the population would be committed. I'm sorry the Officer feels like the OP is beneath his own station in life. He and other Police who are like him give the good guys, yes there are some, a bad rap. BTW I am not a police officer just a citizen who took an oath 30 some years ago and I didn't take it lightly and upon discharge of my duty didn't take it back.

 

[wojownik]

Even though no one specifically told me that pretending you're going to draw on someone wasn't appropriate behavior but there is SOME level of common sense because no one ever HAD to tell me that either. When I'm carrying a gun I don't play, with it, I don't fiddle with it, I try to act like it's not there. I CERTAINLY don't use it as a toy.

Well, yes, in most cases, "someone" has specifically has said that this is inappropriate behavior. This could be readily be considered as "brandishing," which in Virginia for example is a Class 1 misdemeanor. In Colorado, this could fall under both "menacing" and "disorderly conduct." Combined with the verbal statements about shooting a patient makes this deeply troubling. If this were a John Q, then I could certainly see him being taken into custody.

However, I also live in the real world, and know that different rules apply. Regardless, as a LEO, this individual should be aware of what types of conduct are improper, whether for the general public, or fellow LEOs. As described, maybe the PO was having a bad day ... or maybe something else.

But, there are a number of ways this could have been handled, including an informal mention to an medical or administrative staff member, asking their advice. If he is indeed beloved by the medical staff, one would think they would care enough to see how he's doing. Give him a cup of coffee (decaf, preferably). Or something.

For LEO personnel, I know of several cases where officers have been disciplined for improper handling of a firearm, with unpaid suspensions, written up, even sent back for re-training. These were fairly egregious cases though, but the gun fondling plus the verbal statements would again IMHO make this a case for a PO to be at least taken off line for a little while to see what's up.

Something could have been said here.

 

[buck460XVR]

Who Is Teaching These People That This Behavior Is Acceptable?

Their Peers. That's who's they're showing off to and that's who's enabling them. But then, how many Pro 2nd Amendment folks demand that rights not be infringed, that one should not need a permit, nor training to own a firearm, then snibble when not everyone is responsible with them. Should cops/LEO know better? Of course they should, but then everyone should. Everyone should be a responsible parent....but they're not. Everyone should be a responsible driver....but they're not. We're all supposed to drink responsibly....do we always? It's easy to be critical of others because we all think ourselves as perfect. It's even easier to be over critical when we think we know more than those around us. Such is life. Being around others with firearms is like riding motorcycle. You need to look out for yourself, because that's the only one who's gonna do it. You trust your safety to others you don't know just because you expect them to be responsible, you're asking for trouble.

 

[JeffG]

Their Peers. That's who's they're showing off to and that's who's enabling them. .

I agree with your entire post except this one statement. I had almost 40 years in law enforcement, and it is a standard; deviation from which is not tolerated, no screwing around with guns, and don't make stupid/threatening/irresponsible comments about the public. I would be shocked if this officer doesn't have at least one reprimand in his file, stemming from a performance evaluation, or fellow officers report.

 

[ford8nr]

YES this is bad
But you should try being a RSO on a private 2000 member club range for a day. You see ALL kinds ...

 

[fpgt72]

Pretty interesting story from the OP.....I have been in law enforcement now 13 years....never once seen that....EVAR.

They are not "gun guys" but they do understand what that tool can do and respect it....me thinks some heads need to roll.

 

[sarge83]

Concealed means concealed. I don't talk openly at work about what i carry or when, but plenty of folks do get rather loud proclaiming all kinds of things. I don't post anything firearms related on social media for the same reason. I even hesitated a bit to 'like' the pages of some gun clubs I frequent because other people can see that stuff.

In my humble opinion, one is much better off taking pride in the fact that no one has the slightest idea one is armed and ready.

Same here, it is better to keep quiet especially on the social media sites. My kids were told growing up, you don't mention I am armed and you don't talk to your friends about your Dad having firearms either. If I run into a friend and we start talking about weapons at times but it is done in privacy out of sight and safety rules followed.

 

[buck460XVR]

I agree with your entire post except this one statement. I had almost 40 years in law enforcement, and it is a standard; deviation from which is not tolerated, no screwing around with guns, and don't make stupid/threatening/irresponsible comments about the public. I would be shocked if this officer doesn't have at least one reprimand in his file, stemming from a performance evaluation, or fellow officers report.

That statement was made about other folks besides LEOs Jeff, but the mere fact that the cop in the OP still had a job is proof that peers are enabling him. Could be the "You're a "Gosh darn" security guard. Don't talk to me." Look that I am all too familiar with" made someone more critical than others might be. I dunno, but what I do know is that everyone out there in the world with a firearm is not the most intelligent and responsible person, and stupid people do stupid things when others allow them to do it. They do not need to be told the behavior is acceptable to do it, but they do need to be told it is not many times before they will stop.

 

[GBExpat]

Who Is Teaching These People That This Behavior Is Acceptable?

Perhaps Gecko45 is offering seminars now?

 

[dekibg]

Surprising, but not surprising, at the same time.
Starting with lesser examples :a lot of people nowadays ( especially millennials - a.k.a. "generation me"), don't even say "good morning" or at least " Hi" to their coworkers when they get to work.
From early age they are indoctrinated with "everything goes" and "who are you to judge me ? " attitudes, in institutions that are supposed to be for education only .
While you can't change anybody's personal culture, the seriousness of this police officer's conduct is far beyond how he was raised.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

The problem is that nobody is teaching them much of anything. They already know it all and don't want to find out otherwise.

This. This right here.

No one is teaching these people anything about etiquette, safety, or wisdom when it comes to firearms.
They don't understand what is at risk, they don't understand possible consequences and no one is showing them/telling them.

I have discussions with younger people all the time about firearms, their handling and the responsibility that comes with carrying one. It is not a 'cool' thing.
Many times it is a burden. A burden that is just more tolerable than the alternative.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Could be the "You're a "Gosh darn" security guard. Don't talk to me." Look that I am all too familiar with" made someone more critical than others might be.

This cop has pretty much treated me like (insert non Highroad expletive of choice here) since the second he laid eyes on me but that doesn't change the fact that I objectively observed him walking around the crisis unit of a mental health facility with the retention devices on his holster disabled and repeatedly partially drawing his weapon. I also objectively observed him point his finger like a gun at the room a psychotic patient was in and make a motion like he was shooting her. I heard him say "Blamm! Now Sierrra Tango Foxtrot Uniform. It was after all that happened that I said "It can't be that bad" and got The Look.

Pretty much everyone that's read this thread agrees with my assessment of his behavior so no, I don't think I just had a case of butthurt because the guy treats me like an untouchable

 

[Drail]

I would be willing to bet that he treats a great many people like they were untouchables. I have seen a whole lot of copies of that guy. Just ignore him.

 

[GAF]

If one is not putting their EDC on in the morning or taking it off in the evening I think it should stay in your pants unless it is really needed for that emergency situation. My EDC is not for show and tell , it is not a play thing , a toy or something thing to impress other people. It is a deadly weapon and should be treated as such. Keep in in you pants!!!

 

[BigFatKen]

I cannot find the post online but years ago the New Orleans SWAT Team invited a rookie cop to bust a hardened criminal. A dentist who took bets. i.e. An unarmed bookie. Rookie squeezed a little too hard on his Glock and shot him in head.

 

[fallout mike]

My normal company is gun guys. Ive never seen such nonsense. Get you a new circle of friends that have common sense.