Why a folding knife? or not?

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I suppose it would be in such a manner that it would keep you from spending years in a federal or state honeymoon suite? :uhoh: Uh, wait a minute, that ain't very likely is it? You might defend yourself, you might drive an attacker off, you might stop the attack, you might even kill them in the process, but if you "kill them real good" you and your new bride Bubba is gonna have a lot of time to explore the *****(edited to remove too disturbing thought).
 
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...and the pen is mightier than the sword

OHH OOHHHH OOHHHH!!!! Perfect quote. If any of you have read "The Mouse That Roared" you'll recognize this:

"The pen is mightier than the sword, but the sword speaks louder at any given time."

It's been a long time since I read that book, but I think I got it right. Personally, I'm quite content with my unmighty sword. Bring your pen and we'll settle this discussion... hehehe
 
Heh. I had completely forgotten that...

"The pen is mightier than the sword, but the sword speaks louder and stronger at any given moment."

also

"'Yes' can be turned into 'No', and vice versa, if a sufficient quantity of words are applied to the matter."

:D
 
*grabs book off shelf*

And the last thing that Roger Fenwick learned at Oxford: In any argument the victor is always right.
 
A 6-7" fixed blade has long been considered minimum for a combat knife. How many that carry for defense have that ? Just as important for defense is training How many have that ?
 
Folding knives break in the middle. Thats how I Look at it, simply. Yes, they have a locking mechanism, but that can still fail. I've had it happen, and if I can pick them out among the ones I've earned more honestly, I'd show you the scars to prove it. ;)
There are ways to use a folder in defense that minimize the potential for failure, but still there are problems - a folder takes a lot of fine motor skill to get open, and fine motor skill is something that will desert you under high stress.
That is why I like a device like the Wave found on knives from Emerson ( www.emersonknives.com ) because it catches and pulls the blade open as you draw it - removing, hopefully, the need for having to engage your thumb to manipulate it open further.

That said - a fixed blade is better. You can access and present a fixed blade faster, with less hassle, and they are stronger.
As was pointed out, they are easy to clean which is a plus if you plan to use it not just for defense.

Mete said "A 6-7" fixed blade has long been considered minimum for a combat knife. How many that carry for defense have that ? Just as important for defense is training How many have that ?"
I have a couple issues with that - first of all, he is correct that a COMBAT knife should be a 6" to 7" or 8" blade - but a combat knife and a fighting knife/personal defense knife are two VERY different things. A combat knife is a strong utility tool, that is going to be carried on a belt, with a lot of other big gear, by people who are supposed to have weapons. Its not the kind of knife someone carries for defense.
Now a fighting knife can be had in those sizes, but a fighting knife in those sizes is most likely only going to be an option for soldiers as well.
So we are looking at defensive knives - and a good defensive knife can have a 4 to five inch blade. Heck, the defensive fixed blade I carry has a 3.5" blade that I think is just about perfect.

I would suggest a small fixed blade, a neck knife, either an Emerson La Griffe or a FrontSight Knives "HideAway" which is probably the better choice, as it offers more options, and is custom fitted to each user - and still has a reasonable price, especially for the materials used and the craftsmen involved witht he project. And, its designed by a woman too - if that matters.
And a medium to large fixed blade - something like the Camillus Cuda CQB-II or perhaps the regular CQB-I (the larger of the two) http://www.agrussell.com/camillus/ca-cqb1.html They come with kydex sheaths capable of either IWB or belt carry via tek-lok. The Spyderco Perrin Bowie might be another idea. Also, look at the stuff Cold Steel ( www.coldsteel.com ) offers.
And one or two good folders - Emerson, Spyderco, Cold Steel, Benchmade and Kershaw all make some really nice folders of all shapes and sizes. A web search, or a search of knife dealers, will show you the available models from each.

There are advantages and dis-advantages to both - with folders the disadvantages are potential failure, and difficulty on the draw - advantages are that they can be carried easily, without much fuss or muss, and that they are handy because of that. Fixed blades are a little more work, but not much, to carry, and they do come out faster/more reliably - but they are not legal in some areas.
I'm lucky, int hat I can carry a fixed blade - so I am rarely without one, even a small one. But I am almost never without a folder either. (As well as a few non-lethal tools for the defensive step between un-armed and deadly force, i.e. knives.)
 
I also think it is Brownie who often points this out but, a defensive knife is there to deter or delay the agressor, not to take him out. Shorter blades are just fine for this purpose. IMHO, a defensive blade is NOT the same as a "combat" knife.

I consider mine to just be a folding attitude-adjuster.
 
I also think it is Brownie who often points this out but, a defensive knife is there to deter or delay the agressor, not to take him out

I think Brownie's philosophy is admirable and worth serious consideration - but at the same time, I'd rather not undermine my own defensive training by not being capable of a lethal force solution if forced to it.
That said - you could take someone apart with an Emerson La Griffe, and determination - shorter knives arent that much of a sacrifice.
 
Gentlemen and ladies:

I appreciate the kind comments from all here on the theories I expound relative self defense with a knife.

The idea is to become proficient enough to defend yourself adequately without going to the dark side of the blade where you run amok with the law in the aftermath.

The dark side is known and practiced to proficiency, then you can deviate from the dark side and learn to control the subject [ still hurts em so they'll likly desist further aggression but probably won't kill them ]. The control techniques still injure in the same fashion but the targets of the blade show restraint in ones actions and your actions can be articulated well enough for a jury to comprehend your thought process while defending [ intent ].

It's easy to live on the dark side and end life when one knows how with any weapon.

It is the ones who have mastered the blade who then choose to live on one side or the other. One is no less proficient at stopping an aggressor than the other but one shows the aggression and the other shows compassion. Very inportant in the aftermath of an assault and your subsequent actions.

The longer an aggressor persists the more you can bring out the dark side to stop him [ level of force ]. Knife attacks/defense against a knife attack are fluid events. Please remember that we, as law abiding citizens, have a right to defend ourselves.

There are times when the dark side would be the only course of action to survive [ one example might be multiple attackers armed with knives [ more than one person ].

In that scenario the first one to reach in would recieve something that would put him down quickly [ different targets ]so you could move onto the next and hopefully not have to re-engage that one again.

What I really dislike are those who profess using the dark/nasty side immediately upon a single aggressor. Though there will be times you may have to revert to the dark side for one reason or another I don't think ones advice to always go that route is appropriate nor necessary most of the time. It's there if need be but then I would be able to articulate my position and actions as to why I escalated to another level.

If you can do that you come off to the jury as reasonable. To say to them that you killed him because thats how you were trained [ in the dark side ] will only cause more grief than most can afford to deal with financially or the time spent with "bubba" after they lock you up.

Train to live, do what you must do to survive an encounter, but keep in mind that your actions will be scrutinized and judged by others who are not familiar with your blade defense reasoning and will have to be educated as to why you did what you did and that it was reasonable and prudent.

Brownie
 
Very interesting, brownie.

You have clearly spent a lot of time thinking this through.

I disagree to some extent on a few points, and I'll offer my views:

- Dead men don't talk. Dead men don't sue for civil damages. (Though of course the family probably will in any case, but I think your chances are better without him sitting there acting all hurt & drawing sympathy...)

- On the street, you may have a point about not trying immediately to kill an attacker (under certain circumstances at least) but I believe it is different in the home. IMO, anyone who breaks into your home while you are in it is generally bent on quite evil ends. Again, dead men don't talk, and they also can't get back up. What if he has a buddy you don't know about? Then while you are dealing with him, the guy you only injured gets back up, only he's PISSED this time. Not good. Especially if you have family in the home. IMO, men with families to defend should shoot to kill, shoot so that their families may definitely remain unscathed. That is something I would never leave to chance.

JMHO....
 
using the dark/nasty side

Respectfully, there is no "dark side". You have a toolbox of options to use, traveling up the force continuum as time and ability allows.

Everyone knows- or SHOULD know, that it is much easier to inflict serious damage on an adversary than stop them with minimal damage. First priority is going home to your family safely. If you can avoid, that's the best. If you can disengage, super. If you are forced to fight or lay down and die, don't hold back, if your life is on the line.

"That's how I was trained"?! What the hell? The force used was because I was in fear for my life.

John
 
Ditto Jshirley.

My view: If your life is being threatened, you are totally morally justified (in most cases legally justified?) in using greater force.

Example:

Some guy pulls a knife on you. You are not required by law or morals to use equal or lesser force to stop the threat. (i.e.; if you pull a knife = equal force.)

So you pull your gun and stop the threat. Either he runs on sight of the gun, or he advances and kills himself, courtesy of you. If anything, its suicide.
 
I didn't realize this thread was talking about in the home.

My impression was it happened on the street in public.

It would be different in the home. I wouldn't be using a knife in the home to begin with.


Although keep in mind some states have stated you must retreat if you have an exit [ thats the law ], no matter how dumb it is. I know of one state that rescinded that law when the governors changed next election years ago.

Brownie
 
in public, most venues require civilians to retreat ANY AND ALL ATTACKS.
any attack may only be met with eaqual or lesser force

home is different, very few venues require retreat within the home (so called "Castle Doctrine")

IMO, men with families to defend should shoot to kill, shoot so that their families may definitely remain unscathed. That is something I would never leave to chance.


a jury of 12 like minded internet gun board members would surely disagree, however, one only shoots to stop the threat, Period. Anything more is EXCESSIVE force, by definition.

Q: Why did you shoot him?

A: He was attacking me and would not stop. I was in fear for my life and could not repel his attack with anything less.

Q: But why did you shoot him ___ times?

WRONG A: I was trying to kill him. OR I wanted to kill him. OR He was gonna kill me. OR It was self defense. OR I didn't mean to, it was an accident, the gun just went off.

CORRECT A: All I wanted him to do was stop. I begged him to stop; I gave him my _____ (everything I had) and he wouldn't stop. He had a weapon and I feared for my life.

Q: But why did you shoot him ___ times?

I have no idea how many times I shot him, I just wanted him to stop and go away and leave me alone, that's what I kept telling him.

Verbal compliance is very important. You are going to talk to a lot more people than you will ever shoot.
 
I only wish I had some skill with a knife.

I can barely sharpen them, and can count 16 stitches in my hands just in the past few years since I began carrying a "tactical" knife everyday...
 
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