Why all the ultra short AR barrels?

[Fatelvis]

I've been scratching my head as to why every one is going in the direction of ultra-short AR pistol builds. I understand the whole pistol brace situation, but don't you think the short barrels are seriously handicapping the velocity and accuracy potential of the weapon? Just to make it a little bit shorter? To me, the trade off isn't worth it. What are your thoughts? Thanks!

 

[TTv2]

What to you is an "ultra short" AR pistol barrel? 10 inches? 7 inches? I do agree there is a limit to the use of an AR with such a short barrel, but in my book 10 inches is as low as I'd go for an AR pistol barrel. Anything shorter the decreased effective range and terminal effect will be very noticeable. May as well be a 9mm or better yet a bullpup rifle with a full 16 inch barrel.

.223 needs velocity to be effective and using a shorter barrel handicaps an already handicapped cartridge at distances over 200 yards. If one is never expecting to shoot further than 200, then an intermediate .30 caliber like 7.62x39, .300 BLK, or even .30 Carbine would suffice.

 

[Ru4real]

Not everyone is going short. My thoughts.

 

[army_eod]

Fads. Groupthink. In Nam the Special Ops had short bbl carbines.

 

[Rembrandt]

I call it the "El Camino syndrome"......not really a car, not really a truck, but has characteristics of both.

 

[mavracer]

Why? "Because of course"
And I'm not sure you really understand the question.
My 14.5" AR has a 5r 1 in 8" twist and a 223 Wylde chamber. It wears a 1-6x24 optic and I shoot 77 SMKs almost exclusively.
Effectiveness and accuracy how about you ask the guy with 16" gosh dang chrome lined NATO chambered barrel shooting cheap greentips with a red dot?
I'd also point out not all the shorties are 5.56 and a 300 blackout gains very little going from 10 to 16 inches and if you're shooting subs thru a can it's totally irrelevant I can push 208s supersonic in an 8" barrel.

 

[R.W.Dale]

It’s just the predominant gun fad of the day. They serve no real purpose

just like a decade ago you were a gun nobody if you didn’t have a $3000 poorly running 1911. Today you are a gun nobody if you don’t have a questionably legal sbr ish AR that the BATFE may redefine into illegally again at any given time

 

[earlthegoat2]

I don’t have one and the only one I would consider would be a pistol cartridge so as not to deal with the noise/blast of a rifle round through a non-rifle length barrel.

But I really think this is a case of “my opinion is best and why would anyone else think any way but my way”.

It’s OK, I do that all the time and so does everyone else here even if they won’t admit it.

 

[Demi-human]

They serve no real purpose

M’kay then.

 

[rb288]

"They serve no real purpose".

Really?
I have a 10.5" sbr that is my close in, around the property, home defense, weapon.
At the range I use it, 50 yds or less, it is outstanding, and very effective.

 

[Zerodefect]

10.5-14" isn't short at all.

7-8" is short.

 

[IdaD]

I see a valid application as a backpack gun or a rifle you would want to keep in your truck or whatever. For home defense or general use I'd rather stick with a 16" barrel.

 

[jmorris]

I figure with Clinton’s AWB in the history books with Obama’s panic, everyone already has a 40 ft shipping container full of 16 & 20 inch AR’s but still has money left to burn.

I guess it depends on what you use them for. My 10.5” is a truck gun that’s the same OAL as a 16” still kills coyotes and not near as loud.


If you’re happy with the length of a 16” barrel then stick a can on it, your past 20”.

 

[FL-NC]

What they are mostly being used for is the pistols with the braces as an option to not do a bunch of stupid NFA red tape. 10" barreled uppers are standard fare in the Special Ops community (I personally prefer 11.5" on a shorty upper). They are usually used with suppressors in order to keep the overall length of the weapon as short as possible, a major plus when fighting at close quarters. We normally selected these shorty uppers with a RDS like an eo tech or M68 aimpoint when conducting raids and the like that required forced entry into a structure, and used the standard uppers with some sort of magnified sight like a 4x ACOG or low to mid range powered variable (like a 1-4X Schmidt-Bender short dot, or similar) for other operations. As far as the loss in velocity with the shorter barrels, at the max ranges normally encountered at close quarters or urban combat (200 yards is a LONG shot, and not something that happens that often- the farest I had to shoot was more like 100 as an assaulter) loss of MV really isn't a problem. The "pistol length" barrels (7"?) with the shorter gas tubes are often unreliable when compared to the 10" and longer barrels with the carbine length gas tubes, not to mention the nearly non-existent handguards that these things wear.

 

[entropy]

My 10.5" is deer accurate (for me that is 3 inches at 200 yds.) as far out as I'd shoot a deer with it. This is with handloads developed for it. It opens up to about 5" with Silver Bear 62 gr.
I'll agree, after building and shooting a 7", too short. I gave it to my son.

I see a valid application as a backpack gun or a rifle you would want to keep in your truck or whatever. For home defense or general use I'd rather stick with a 16" barrel.

Try some CQB training with a 16" and you'll see why 10" are popular with SPECOPS, though they often top those with a can, as FL-NC says. Keeps it at the same length, and doesn't cause loss of hearing when fired indoors.

 

[Walkalong]

I don’t get the appeal, but what the heck, they sure are popular.

 

[rbernie]

If you look at a chambering like 300AAC, for example, you'll see that the majority of the velocity gains come in the first ten (10) inches or so. That's not to say that the difference between 2100fps at 10.5" and 2350fps at 22" isn't useful, but it's not likely to be significant within HD/SD shooting distances. For HD/SD, you'd likely never notice the loss of velocity but you would get a much handier gun that would be easier to manage and shoot effectively. Conversely, you can put a 6"-8" can on the gun and get the gun back out to carbine/rifle length and get a hearing-safe gun in the bargain.



ETA - at a 16" barrel length, you're looking at 2200fps vs. 2100fps from a 10.5" barrel.

 

[Hookeye]

Yup, add a can and it's normal length

 

[Chuck R.]

I dunno, but I'd think a 110 grain expanding bullet at 2130 FPS out of an extremely portable package would have a lot going for it....

A 300 Blackout super out of a 9" barrel with a linear comp is about as loud as my 16" AR15s.

Then there's always..."because I could". Makes a heck of a truck gun and easily rings steel at 200+ yards.

 

[Fatelvis]

If you look at a chambering like 300AAC, for example, you'll see that the majority of the velocity gains come in the first ten (10) inches or so. That's not to say that the difference between 2100fps at 10.5" and 2350fps at 22" isn't useful, but it's not likely to be significant within HD/SD shooting distances. For HD/SD, you'd likely never notice the loss of velocity but you would get a much handier gun that would be easier to manage and shoot effectively. Conversely, you can put a 6"-8" can on the gun and get the gun back out to carbine/rifle length and get a hearing-safe gun in the bargain.

View attachment 966132

Honestly, I hadnt considered another chambering outside of 5.56. You are correct with the Blackout and AAC, but the FMJ 5.56 relies on high velocity to create an unstable projectile after impact, imparting tumbling. When you cut down the velocity, you cut down the lethality.

 

[rbernie]

Honestly, I hadnt considered another chambering outside of 5.56. You are correct with the Blackout and AAC, but the FMJ 5.56 relies on high velocity to create an unstable projectile after impact, imparting tumbling. When you cut down the velocity, you cut down the lethality.

That's why I went with 300AAC; it's like pre-expanded 5.56NATO. But any non-FMJ (SP/HP) .224 bullet should do fine for HD/SD at the reduced velocities of a 10.5" AR pistol. The corner case of concern is specifically M855, and to a lesser extent M193.

ETA:

The difference between a 5.56 NATO 16" barrel (3050fps) and a 5.56 NATO 10.5" barrel (2850fps) isn't as great as you might think. The muzzle pressures are still pretty high (meaning that it'll be loud as acheeedoublehockeysticks) but the round would still look pretty useable.

 

[BreechFace]

Have you ever handled a 9” barreled SBR or Pistol? They are great to handle due to the mass of the firearm being that much closer to the body of the shooter without all that barrel weight forward.

Also, adding a 6-8” long suppressor to the end of a SBR or pistol gets one back to a carbine length gun, allowing maneuverability and noise/flash/muzzle blast reduction.

10.5” with 77gr OTM’s seem to work great for the professionals in our military.

A 8”-10” 300 AAC is very effective at that length, burning up 95%+ of its powder in that length.

Short barreled 9, 40, 45 PCC’s don’t really benefit much from barrels longer than 8”.

AR pistols fall under CCW laws in a lot of states so the ability to carry concealed a great force multiplier when on trips is a great option.

Don’t know where you got the idea that longer barrels are more accurate but that statement isn’t necessarily accurate (no pun intended). Yes, they would have a longer sight radius but most AR’s are utilizing a red dot, scope or other optic for sighting. The shorter length barrel has more rigidity which would aid in its accuracy if anything else.

 

[Hookeye]

.223 w 55gr varmint bullets from a shorty does what?

Asking because I dunno.

Figure proly act more like a deer bullet.

 

[entropy]

Honestly, I hadnt considered another chambering outside of 5.56. You are correct with the Blackout and AAC, but the FMJ 5.56 relies on high velocity to create an unstable projectile after impact, imparting tumbling. When you cut down the velocity, you cut down the lethality.

Incorrect. That may happen, but not reliably, and it does not rely on high velocity for tumbling. IMO, if the projectiles you are using for SD/HD tumble at those distances, they have failed in their potential.
I use varmint bullets and OTM for HD/SD, because I have seen the effects on human-sized game, and they have far more fight stopping potential than FMJ hopefully tumbling.

 

[IdaD]

Try some CQB training with a 16" and you'll see why 10" are popular with SPECOPS, though they often top those with a can, as FL-NC says. Keeps it at the same length, and doesn't cause loss of hearing when fired indoors.

I get it for guys who do stuff like that for a living. I'm just a middle aged husband/dad who lives in a nice and generally safe neighborhood. I'll probably never fire a gun of any kind indoors, and if I find myself in that situation I don't think hearing loss is going to be real high on my list of worries. I also tend to agree with John Lovell's take that lots of noise in those scenarios can have some real benefits too.