Why do people chintz out on scopes?

[lightman]

I've read through this entire thread and started to make a reply several times. But I'll just add a couple of scope stories and be done.

My first Nightforce Scope was purchased used for 1/2 price. A friend and shooting buddy knocked his rifle out of a rather tall deer stand. He said it sounded like it hit every step on the way down. Both the rifle and the scope took on some character from the fall. He said it made him sick evertime he looked at them and offered me the scope. Its got a ding on both ends and a serious scuff on the tube but it tracks and focus's perfectly. I filed the nicks smooth the same way you do an airplane prop. I wasn't too worried about it because I figured NF could repair it if needed.

My next story is a little bit longer but what the heck, its New Years Eve and I'm not going out! A friend bought him and his Son a pair of inexpensive Remington bolt action rifles. I don't remember the model but they both came with a scope and were both in the $300 range. He wanted me to go with him the first time and he wanted me to shoot them. They boresighted them at the store. My first shots were on paper but needed moving so I adjusted them and shot again. The group didn't move and I adjusted and shot again. I did this about 3 times and then it moved too far and I started over going back with the same results. Both of them did this but I finally got them centered. They were watching all of this and asking questions. By now its about dark and I told them I needed to shoot my rifle. I had changed bullets and wanted to check zero. One of them offered to put up a fresh target but I told them I would shoot at one of their bullet holes. I fired one shot, clicked the elevation knob 4 clicks and put the rifle away. They ask me if I trusted the scope that much and I just said yup. The rifle is a custom heavy barrel 300WSM with a NF on it! He commented on that and I just told him it was like his dive equipment. He is a dive instructor!

 

[redneck2]

All that expensive glass and still can't see past the end of your own nose lol

You think this might be a little harsh?

 

[tws3b2]

I hunted for over 35 years using scopes for deer. I don't say cheapest is good enough or do I say the more it cost the better quality. I hunted mostly in the Carolina's where most long shots are on power lines or across farmers fields. I've always used mid to lower price scopes and never had any problems. As a matter of fact the only miss I can remember was when I should not have used my scope to start with. Should have used iron sights cause deer was so close. I started deer hunting in 1974 with a $179 Remington 700 30 06 and a $30 Tasco scope. I still have both today because I never needed anything else. Both are ready to go right now but I can't. They have out lasted me. But to each his own.

 

[dranrab]

Absolutely, as well as closeout models. I love closeout models.

I am a closeout nut! Most of my scopes have been closeout models.

 

[bearcreek]

I hunted for over 35 years using scopes for deer. I don't say cheapest is good enough or do I say the more it cost the better quality. I hunted mostly in the Carolina's where most long shots are on power lines or across farmers fields. I've always used mid to lower price scopes and never had any problems. As a matter of fact the only miss I can remember was when I should not have used my scope to start with. Should have used iron sights cause deer was so close. I started deer hunting in 1974 with a $179 Remington 700 30 06 and a $30 Tasco scope. I still have both today because I never needed anything else. Both are ready to go right now but I can't. They have out lasted me. But to each his own.

None of that tells us anything about the durability of your scopes though. You just told us how long you've owned them, which is irrelevant without knowing what you did with them and how much they were used.

 

[tws3b2]

None of that tells us anything about the durability of your scopes though. You just told us how long you've owned them, which is irrelevant without knowing what you did with them and how much they were used.

I lived in S C on 5 Acer's in the country bordered on two sides by game management. I hunted pretty much every weekend during deer season. I also owned a 30 30 Winchester with a side mount and Tasco scope. I didn't like the side mount very much so I didn't use it very much. But my wife killed her very first deer, on her very first hunt with her very first shot with it. I also had a couple 22s with Tasco scopes I used on small game and plinking. I hunted there for over 35 years with the same rifle and scope. Never had any problem with any of my scopes. Sometimes, Some people think that you have to spend a ton of money to be successful at deer hunting. The gun, the scope, the money or even where you hunt are not generally the reason for failure at deer hunting. Patience and the love to be in the woods to hunt.

 

[I6turbo]

Absolutely, as well as closeout models. I love closeout models.

Me too. I don't like taking that "new car depreciation." I love buying quality scopes (and guns, but the guns I like don't go on closeout) at prices that are lower than I could sell them for later. It's not an investment strategy, but it sure does make me more comfortable with putting more $ into the "collection" than I really have any actual need to do. I kind of have a hobby of testing and comparing scopes in the $300 - $500 street price range, keeping the ones that I like (perhaps even buying more of them), and selling the ones that don't impress me enough. Picking them up at bargain prices, used, or new at a huge discount, works for me.

Another thing that I've noticed, particularly in the past few years, is that the discontinued (closeout) scopes often have features that I like better than the models that replace them. While the optics may be as good, or ever so slightly better, on the new ones, they are often cheapened in terms of the materials of construction (e.g., plastic instead of metal), you can just "feel" the cost-cutting somehow, or they otherwise lose some of the appeal of the former models.

An example of this is the Leupold VX-2 3-9x33 EFR vs. the new Freedom version. I haven't owned the Freedom model, but reports are that the glass is as good as the prior model. But they lost the classic Leupold design and made the Freedom look more like a Clearidge or Bushnell than it does a classic Leupold. I guess I'm not the only one who sees the new Leupolds this way as I sold a VX-2 EFR for $549 a few months ago, about $200 more than you could buy them for when they were in production.

 

[wild willy]

My Meopro doesn't do anything for me that my Nikon M5, Leupold VX2 and Burris Droptine don't do for me. I cannot identify a single objective standard in which it outperforms the others, and subjectively it's essentially indistinguishable from the others.

Have you ever compared all four scopes at the same time under the same conditions. I have my Meopta 3.5 to 10 is brighter and clearer later than my Leupold VX-3 the biggest difference was on a morning when is was sunny with low glaring fog the Leupold kinda washed out or something the Meopta didn't.I own more Leupolds than any other brand and they are a very good scope but my Meopta to me is better in fact I just got another one a 4.5-14

 

[dranrab]

Have you ever compared all four scopes at the same time under the same conditions. I have my Meopta 3.5 to 10 is brighter and clearer later than my Leupold VX-3 the biggest difference was on a morning when is was sunny with low glaring fog the Leupold kinda washed out or something the Meopta didn't.I own more Leupolds than any other brand and they are a very good scope but my Meopta to me is better in fact I just got another one a 4.5-14

I have done some back to back to back viewing with them. No objective standard based comparison. All of my scopes will get me to last legal shooting time, so they are all good enough!

 

[marksman13]

I spent quite a few years behind the counter at a gun store and I’ve seen everything from a $600 Savage sporting a Nightforce to a $2500 LWRC with a cheap Chinese made scope/laser combo ordered off of a Facebook ad. Both of those customers were quite happy with their choices, though I’d suspect the Savage owner spent a good deal more time actually using his rifle.

Personally, I’d suppose I have a couple dozen scoped rifles at this point and the vast majority of them are topped with Vortex, Zeiss and Leupold glass with some Burris Vercities and a Bushnell Forge 2.5-15x50s thrown in as well. The cheapest scope I own is probably a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x50 that was on a Ruger No. 1 when I bought it. Just never have seen a reason to take it off. It does fine for a close range hunting scope. The most expensive scope I own is mounted on top of my most expensive rifle. It’s a Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x50. My other two “long range” rigs sport Zeiss Conquest V4 6-24x50 scopes that I bought as demos.

I say all that to say that I own scopes up and down the price scale and I’ve been pretty happy with most of them for their intended purposes. Of course I can see the difference in quality between the scopes at the top of the spectrum and the ones at the bottom, but they don’t all have to meet the same standard because they don’t all serve the same purpose. I’ve been at a point in my life where a Simmons scope was all I could justify buying and so I bought them, and a Tru-Glo red dot. They served their purpose, but I never pretended they were the best option. They were just the option I could afford.

That said, I do have a Swarovski Z3 that is headed back to Swarovski today due to a broken elevation turret. Great glass quality, but who puts plastic parts in the elevation turret of a thousand dollar scope? That scope has been truly frustrating and I’m on the verge of selling it and buying a Leupold.

 

[hq]

Like I've said before, I really wish I had never bought a decent scope. Not knowing the difference would've saved me hundreds of dollars for each scope I've bought over the years. Much like back in my college days I was happy with my Fiat Uno (google it, a massive POS, bona fide $#!%box) and regarded it as good enough for me, for getting around, hunting trips and even roadtrips.

It all boils down to same thing, buying cheap stuff and attempting to convince oneself that it's "good enough for what I use it for". Been there, done that, never going back.

 

[dranrab]

Like I've said before, I really wish I had never bought a decent scope. Not knowing the difference would've saved me hundreds of dollars for each scope I've bought over the years. Much like back in my college days I was happy with my Fiat Uno (google it, a massive POS, bona fide $#!%box) and regarded it as good enough for me, for getting around, hunting trips and even roadtrips.

It all boils down to same thing, buying cheap stuff and attempting to convince oneself that it's "good enough for what I use it for". Been there, done that, never going back.

I am at a point where I can afford some high dollar glass. I have been hunting long enough to know that it doesn't take much scope to put the plus sign on the vitals and pull the trigger. There is simply no ROI there for me. Nor is there for most of the hunters I know. My Meopro and my Revolutions do the same exact thing for me.

 

[hq]

My Meopro and my Revolutions do the same exact thing for me.

So do irons if we go just one step further. Whatever floats your boat, really.

 

[dranrab]

So do irons if we go just one step further. Whatever floats your boat, really.

I have yet to find irons that can magnify targets and allow me to make precise shots 25 minutes after sunset. Whatever lengths of intellectual dishonesty you are willing to go to to try to get the last word, really.

 

[hq]

I have yet to find irons that can magnify targets and allow me to make precise shots 25 minutes after sunset.

Mediocre scopes after sunset offer a fantastic opportunity to make their devoted user an exceptionally seasoned and experienced tracker in the long run. Like I already said, whatever floats your boat. Good luck.

 

[tws3b2]

WoW, New car depreciation, ZX-23-9x33 EFR, VORtex XR HD, $200, $600, $2500, V46-24x50 SAROvSkI Z3, bona fide $#!%box, whatever floats your boat, exceptionally seasoned .
Just think. All those years I thought I was having a good time in the woods with my $179 rifle and $30 scope.
I could have spent another couple thousand $ trying to get another 10 minutes of daylight after a full day of failure at hunting. I never thought that success and enjoyment depended on $'s spent.

 

[dranrab]

WoW, New car depreciation, ZX-23-9x33 EFR, VORtex XR HD, $200, $600, $2500, V46-24x50 SAROvSkI Z3, bona fide $#!%box, whatever floats your boat, exceptionally seasoned .
Just think. All those years I thought I was having a good time in the woods with my $179 rifle and $30 scope.
I could have spent another couple thousand $ trying to get another 10 minutes of daylight after a full day of failure at hunting. I never thought that success and enjoyment depended on $'s spent.

How inhumane of you to employ glass of questionable quality. There should be a law that requires hunters to spend at least $500 on a scope. Anything less is showing callous disregard for the quarry.

 

[hq]

I never thought that success and enjoyment depended on $'s spent.

Speaking from a few decades of experience, it sometimes actually does. I think I've so far gained about three thousand hours (give or take) of hunting time that would've been very literally impossible with lesser glass. I'm not sure what some people think - or more likely don't - but squinting, guessing and generally speaking making do with something isn't my idea of enjoyable... well, anything.

The good thing about cheap guys with chintzy scopes is that they're 3-5 hours early back at the camp and can make dinner and heat up the sauna before anyone else returns to join them.

 

[tws3b2]

Speaking from a few decades of experience, it sometimes actually does. I think I've so far gained about three thousand hours (give or take) of hunting time that would've been very literally impossible with lesser glass. I'm not sure what some people think - or more likely don't - but squinting, guessing and generally speaking making do with something isn't my idea of enjoyable... well, anything.


The good thing about cheap guys with chintzy scopes is that they're 3-5 hours early back at the camp and can make dinner and heat up the sauna before anyone else returns to join them.

 

[marksman13]

WoW, New car depreciation, ZX-23-9x33 EFR, VORtex XR HD, $200, $600, $2500, V46-24x50 SAROvSkI Z3, bona fide $#!%box, whatever floats your boat, exceptionally seasoned .
Just think. All those years I thought I was having a good time in the woods with my $179 rifle and $30 scope.
I could have spent another couple thousand $ trying to get another 10 minutes of daylight after a full day of failure at hunting. I never thought that success and enjoyment depended on $'s spent.

If all you can afford is a $179 rifle and a $30 scope and that gets you out there enjoying the hunt, get after it. I’ll never speak ill of another person’s firearm/scope choice, but more money spent does generally equal better quality, and as long as I have the money to spend on better quality rifles and optics I will spend it. There is a big difference in quality between a $30 scope and a $500 scope. Maybe not as much difference when you start comparing $500 scopes to $1000 scopes. Anything above $1000 and you are paying for features that you may or may not need depending on the type of hunting/shooting you do.

 

[Mark39]

When I was coming up, the wise old dudes always told me, spend the same on a scope as you spent on the rifle. I bought cheap when I was young, got cheap, had a couple hunts ruined.

Cheaper optics are just that: cheap. There's so much good glass available now, I don't understand why the constant requests from guys asking for "what's the best bargain scope out there?" or "best inexpensive optic on the market?...

I've learned the hard way: buy once, cry once.

Responding to OP, I think there are two basic reasons for this: 1) ignorance or buying for bragging rights; 2) political climate.

Reason 1 is people don't understand how the system as a whole works or they want to show off their rifle and don't really care how well they can shoot it. Similar to people that buy performance cars and skimp on the tires and other maintenance.

Reason 2 is political climate. People buy rifles they don't need or buy more rifle than they need out of fear they won't be able to buy in the future. The scope is an afterthought and they figure scopes will either always be available or will only improve in the future so they skimp with the expectation of upgrading them later.

 

[mavracer]

Speaking from a few decades of experience, it sometimes actually does. I think I've so far gained about three thousand hours (give or take) of hunting time that would've been very literally impossible with lesser glass. I'm not sure what some people think - or more likely don't - but squinting, guessing and generally speaking making do with something isn't my idea of enjoyable... well, anything.

The good thing about cheap guys with chintzy scopes is that they're 3-5 hours early back at the camp and can make dinner and heat up the sauna before anyone else returns to join them.

Imagine, bragging about spending more money to spend an extra 3000 hours failing.
I've shot the vast majority of my deer within about 30 minutes of sunrise and have never had to spend all day and all night in a deer stand, don't want to.
I'm actually happy that being a good hunter I've been able to harvest game early and have it dressed before lunch and be able to spend the rest of the day playing cards or sitting in the hot tub.

 

[hq]

Imagine, bragging about spending more money to spend an extra 3000 hours failing.

Bragging? Failing? Wow, that escalated quickly.

I have no idea how you hunt, want to hunt, don't want to hunt or even "[never] had to" (your words) hunt - and fail to find relevance in it to pretty much anything, but personally I've never felt like I had to do anything specific in regard to hunting. I just enjoy the heck out of it and not chintzing out on equipment is an integral part of the most enjoyable and successful experience.

For all I know you can chase animals down and beat them to death with a stick if that's what you particularly like or can afford. Not really my business at all. Enjoy.

 

[mavracer]

I have no idea how you hunt, want to hunt, don't want to hunt or even "[never] had to" (your words) hunt - and fail to find relevance in it to pretty much anything, but personally I've never felt like I had to do anything specific in regard to hunting. I just enjoy the heck out of it and not chintzing out on equipment is an integral part of the most enjoyable and successful experience.

Yeah I figured out 10 pages ago yours is the only view you have.
I'm really glad that equipment has little bearing on my joy.

 

[hq]

Yeah I figured out 10 pages ago yours is the only view you have.

Well, a bit broader than most. Transition from "good enough for what I use it for!!!" to decent and eventually top shelf has taken the better part of five decades. I think of it as a journey with extensive first hand experience of cheap, expensive and everything in between. It has recently become painfully obvious that the real-life difference can only be learned by a sufficient amount of experience, never explained.

Silly me.

Thinking about this afterwards, I would've probably given my left one had someone managed to teach me early on to avoid cheap scopes at all costs. Oh no, mediocre bulk was so great for what I use it for, anything better would be just snobbery and no-one can convince me otherwise. Quadrillion flies can't be wrong and so on. There may well be a silver lining, though. This thread definitely answers the OP's original question: Why do people chintz out on scopes?