jf89
Member
I heard someone ranting about how HK hates civilians at the pawn shop....what's the story?I tried Google but cldnt find it
why do people say HK hates civilians?
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Sam1911
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Do you mean H&K?
If so, it has to do with their practices of building some firearms only for government/military sales and seeming to give very little care to the civilian sales side of operations. For example, if you buy a "neutered" version of one of their rifles or carbines and really wanted a military version look-alike, it can be extremely expensive and labor-intensive to aquire the parts to swap out and construct the military version. H&K has no interest in citizens who want to own their less "sporting" products.
That's the primary reason. Then that's compounded with sort of a tongue-in-cheek stereotype of curt and abrasive and arrogant faux-Germanic personality (remember Mike Myers' SNL "Sprockets" sketches?) to create the made-up business motto of "We're H&K. You suck and we hate you."
If so, it has to do with their practices of building some firearms only for government/military sales and seeming to give very little care to the civilian sales side of operations. For example, if you buy a "neutered" version of one of their rifles or carbines and really wanted a military version look-alike, it can be extremely expensive and labor-intensive to aquire the parts to swap out and construct the military version. H&K has no interest in citizens who want to own their less "sporting" products.
That's the primary reason. Then that's compounded with sort of a tongue-in-cheek stereotype of curt and abrasive and arrogant faux-Germanic personality (remember Mike Myers' SNL "Sprockets" sketches?) to create the made-up business motto of "We're H&K. You suck and we hate you."
g.willikers
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As many a manufacturer has found to their regret, letting government contracts dominate their sales and production, and ignoring the real so called consumer market, can backfire big time.
Officers'Wife
Member
H&K made a business decision as to which market they felt would be most profitable. That's the joy of free enterprise. People are allowed to make whatever decisions they feel most comfortable with. If they lose because of those decisions they have no one to blame but themselves
I personally have had no dealings with HK but there is a pretty funny rant by Larry Correia about them here http://monsterhunternation.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/
I believe I first read a lot of this on THR but I couldn't find Larrys old post when I searched.
I believe I first read a lot of this on THR but I couldn't find Larrys old post when I searched.
jakk280rem
Member
If you're somewhat new to guns and or Gun topic interweb chat topics, Google : because you suck and we hate you
And mall ninja.
And mall ninja.
Plan2Live
Member
I don't equate making a decision to go after one segment or another as hate. That seems like a strong word.
I was never a big HK fan. They seem to be getting a bit more friendly lately though. I hear their customer service is getting better and they came out with the VP9 (I acutally bought one and like it) and it doesn't cost $800+. I got mine for $549 new. I've shot the MP5 and I think that's a fun gun to shoot but I wouldn't spend the money it would take to own/use one.
I think HK has this "our version is better" type of mentality....so you're more likely to find proprietary parts and such. It shows they are at least thinking and creating their own things....but it's hit or miss. You can certainly pick out one of their guns out of a lineup instantly.
I think HK has this "our version is better" type of mentality....so you're more likely to find proprietary parts and such. It shows they are at least thinking and creating their own things....but it's hit or miss. You can certainly pick out one of their guns out of a lineup instantly.
Old Dog
Member
In the late 90s/early 00s, there were a few U.S. law enforcement agencies (mine was one) that went with some H&K products. The company sold the packages and left departments to wither on the vine ... factory support went away and parts became hard to get. Even those that held on to their MP-5s are doing so only with dedicated effort on the part of their armorers (and largely, it seems that the carbines and SBRs are replacing subguns for entry weapons anyway). But it was far worse for civilian H&K owners. So, all the departments all moved on -- I'm not aware of any major agency that still issues H&Ks for primary service weapons (I could be wrong, of course ...).
RustyShackelford
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HK....
I think HK USA seems to push more towards public service & military customers than the private sector.
I contacted HK directly a few times in the 2000s to get new product catalogs(printed). It would take about 5min and 2/3 weeks later, boom a HK USA catalog was in my mail,
.
Now, in 2015, no one answers the HK USA office phones, . If you request a catalog thru voicemail or online, they never mail it.
I've also read and saw over the years(2004-2015 or so), HK parts and spare magazines are sky high, if you can even find them.
For the pistols, it's not hard to find after market gear or holsters but I think the sworn LE & military contracts help that.
In closing, I don't think HK-USA hates the US shooting sports public but they don't really care or feel compelled to maintain QC or customer service either.
I think HK USA seems to push more towards public service & military customers than the private sector.
I contacted HK directly a few times in the 2000s to get new product catalogs(printed). It would take about 5min and 2/3 weeks later, boom a HK USA catalog was in my mail,
.Now, in 2015, no one answers the HK USA office phones,
. If you request a catalog thru voicemail or online, they never mail it. I've also read and saw over the years(2004-2015 or so), HK parts and spare magazines are sky high, if you can even find them.
For the pistols, it's not hard to find after market gear or holsters but I think the sworn LE & military contracts help that.
In closing, I don't think HK-USA hates the US shooting sports public but they don't really care or feel compelled to maintain QC or customer service either.
jf89
Member
Wow...I read something like that on colt before too and wasn't there something about ruger hating us civilians too?lol
buckhorn_cortez
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Bluntly - BS. You can find parts and magazines all day at HKPARTS.NET
This is another Internet meme that gets repeated in the gun forum echo chambers with absolutely NO evidence that it's true - but, it sounds good...
I guess you actually have to want to find the parts and magazines and not just complain...
Chuck R.
Member
I've only got 1 H&K (HK45T) and have only owned it since NOV last year.
I received the H&K $200 rebate within the time specified. To date, I've bought 8 magazines (various vendors) and spare parts to convert it from V1 to V9 from HKParts.net. In APR I ordered parts directly from H&K to convert it to an LEM trigger. The CS rep I dealt with was extremely helpful, knew exactly what parts I needed for the job, and they shipped the next day with 3 day service.
Granted this is only a sample of one, but I've had zero issues so far getting what I've needed/wanted.
Chuck
I received the H&K $200 rebate within the time specified. To date, I've bought 8 magazines (various vendors) and spare parts to convert it from V1 to V9 from HKParts.net. In APR I ordered parts directly from H&K to convert it to an LEM trigger. The CS rep I dealt with was extremely helpful, knew exactly what parts I needed for the job, and they shipped the next day with 3 day service.
Granted this is only a sample of one, but I've had zero issues so far getting what I've needed/wanted.
Chuck
Can't deny some of it seems to be self inflicted.
What adds to the injury is the German .gov's extremely controlling attitude about the business in general and exports in particular. It did NO good for HK to have a shipment of guns in NY harbor on the eve of the AWB, IIRC. They basically lost their pants on that one entirely due to a sea change in American politics.
They may not hate any one buyer in particular, but they have certainly gotten their slats kicked repeatedly. It's not the future they envisioned when their post war government needed a sewing machine maker to start production on what constituted their very own national weapon, the G3.
We sure did like the guns they put out in the '70s -
What adds to the injury is the German .gov's extremely controlling attitude about the business in general and exports in particular. It did NO good for HK to have a shipment of guns in NY harbor on the eve of the AWB, IIRC. They basically lost their pants on that one entirely due to a sea change in American politics.
They may not hate any one buyer in particular, but they have certainly gotten their slats kicked repeatedly. It's not the future they envisioned when their post war government needed a sewing machine maker to start production on what constituted their very own national weapon, the G3.
We sure did like the guns they put out in the '70s -
I see someone has already posted Larry Correia's rant about H&K.
I can't speak firsthand about H&K but, does Sig Sauer have anti-civilian policies? I saw an auction on gunbroker today for a P320 that said the particular gun could only be sold to active military/law enforcement. Didn't seem like a seller-specific policy, seemed like those were their instructions from the distributor.
I can't speak firsthand about H&K but, does Sig Sauer have anti-civilian policies? I saw an auction on gunbroker today for a P320 that said the particular gun could only be sold to active military/law enforcement. Didn't seem like a seller-specific policy, seemed like those were their instructions from the distributor.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Many manufacturers do that same thing. Glock, FNH, and I'm sure S&W does as well.
What I have against HK is how do they justify $80 for a freaking magazine. I was thinking about getting a HK45C but the price of magazines alone deterred me.
barnbwt
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The perceived 'hate' is a result of two things;
1) Germany seems determined to drive them out of business (they darn near can't export any products now, and it's been getting increasingly bad for decades), and America has burned their civilian sales specifically at least a handful of times in the recent past. 922r was written almost explicitly with the roller-locked G3 rifles in mind (as well as FN FALs), and we repeatedly screwed over the various Euro makers during the 80's under Republican presidents (then everybody else with a Democrat president)
2) HK has an extremely aggressive marketing strategy (they're practically the Apple of the gun world in this regard) wildly out of proportion to their market share, which attracts civilian interest just as effectively as LEO/MIL interest, since both groups think the same guns are cool (or alternately, civilian tastes imitate professional ones). Their stuff has been ubiquitous in civilian media like movies and video games for decades, which is flatly illogical if you think about it (not all of it is HK's doing, but I have to imagine they pay to get their stuff in video games, considering how constant their presence is)
The result is a sad tale of star-crossed love, where the cloistered HK in its ivory (plastic) tower and we mere civilians gaze longingly at one another and wonder what might be... That HK also makes/offers some ridiculously boutique guns like the MP7 and sells a catalogue that is quite rife with cost-inflation generally, leaves them with an image of needless prestige and luxury which infuriates us unwashed masses further.
Now, recent events are possibly changing that state of affairs. If the G36 failure ends up being what I think it is --that HK recklessly substituted inferior materials into their products under the promise of political backing to their denials-- their attitude really does become one of utter arrogance.
TCB
1) Germany seems determined to drive them out of business (they darn near can't export any products now, and it's been getting increasingly bad for decades), and America has burned their civilian sales specifically at least a handful of times in the recent past. 922r was written almost explicitly with the roller-locked G3 rifles in mind (as well as FN FALs), and we repeatedly screwed over the various Euro makers during the 80's under Republican presidents (then everybody else with a Democrat president)
2) HK has an extremely aggressive marketing strategy (they're practically the Apple of the gun world in this regard) wildly out of proportion to their market share, which attracts civilian interest just as effectively as LEO/MIL interest, since both groups think the same guns are cool (or alternately, civilian tastes imitate professional ones). Their stuff has been ubiquitous in civilian media like movies and video games for decades, which is flatly illogical if you think about it (not all of it is HK's doing, but I have to imagine they pay to get their stuff in video games, considering how constant their presence is)
The result is a sad tale of star-crossed love, where the cloistered HK in its ivory (plastic) tower and we mere civilians gaze longingly at one another and wonder what might be...
That HK also makes/offers some ridiculously boutique guns like the MP7 and sells a catalogue that is quite rife with cost-inflation generally, leaves them with an image of needless prestige and luxury which infuriates us unwashed masses further.Now, recent events are possibly changing that state of affairs. If the G36 failure ends up being what I think it is --that HK recklessly substituted inferior materials into their products under the promise of political backing to their denials-- their attitude really does become one of utter arrogance.
TCB
RustyShackelford
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HK magazine prices.....
I checked the HK 416 5.56mm magazine prices on the site posted.
$30-90.00 isn't sky-high?
The pistol barrels posted run about $240.00 USD too.
That seems a tad high,
. Just a tad.
I checked the HK 416 5.56mm magazine prices on the site posted.
$30-90.00 isn't sky-high?
The pistol barrels posted run about $240.00 USD too.
That seems a tad high,
. Just a tad.thegunpunch
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I want a VP9 whether they hate me or not
Thermactor
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RustyShackelford
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Post #22 ....
Post #22 is funny, .
I've seen HK USA marketing/PR pics of mags with ammunition loaded backwards .
I thought it was just photoshop or Instagram goofs. I guess not.
RS
PS: Heckler and Koch isn't the only major shooting sports/defense industry firm to mess up in the media-PR dept;
.
I recall a late 2000s era gun magazine item geared towards SWAT-LE buyers. They displayed pics of high speed uniformed American cops deploying P2000 HK sidearms. The tiny problem was the article was for a completely different gun model & company, .
Post #22 is funny,
.I've seen HK USA marketing/PR pics of mags with ammunition loaded backwards
.I thought it was just photoshop or Instagram goofs. I guess not.
RS
PS: Heckler and Koch isn't the only major shooting sports/defense industry firm to mess up in the media-PR dept;
.I recall a late 2000s era gun magazine item geared towards SWAT-LE buyers. They displayed pics of high speed uniformed American cops deploying P2000 HK sidearms. The tiny problem was the article was for a completely different gun model & company,
.rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Then there was the Desert Eagle KaBoom add!
By the time they ran it, KaBoom was synonymous with Glock's blowing up.
Rc
By the time they ran it, KaBoom was synonymous with Glock's blowing up.
Rc
I've dealt with HK customer service on the civilian side and was sorely disappointed. I bought an older HK 93 and it had feeding problems, every 3rd to 5th piece of fired brass would jam horribly, taking a pair of needle nose pliers and a few minutes to clear. Several different factory mags and different types of rounds would not solve the problem.
I call HK to see if they would fix it, knowing full well that it was not under warranty, but willing to pay for a properly operating rifle. HK said to send it in they could fix it. I get a call from them a couple of months after sending it in saying it's fixed and the parts and labor was less than $200, but they also charged $100 shipping and handling. It only cost me about $27 dollars to ship it to them, with insurance.
Since they had me over a barrel, so to speak, I paid and received my rifle a week later, only for it to have the exact same problem that I sent it in to have fixed. I called back and they told me to send it back for them to have another look at it, and when I asked if it would cost me $100 to have it shipped back again, I was told "yes, it's company policy".
I call HK to see if they would fix it, knowing full well that it was not under warranty, but willing to pay for a properly operating rifle. HK said to send it in they could fix it. I get a call from them a couple of months after sending it in saying it's fixed and the parts and labor was less than $200, but they also charged $100 shipping and handling. It only cost me about $27 dollars to ship it to them, with insurance.
Since they had me over a barrel, so to speak, I paid and received my rifle a week later, only for it to have the exact same problem that I sent it in to have fixed. I called back and they told me to send it back for them to have another look at it, and when I asked if it would cost me $100 to have it shipped back again, I was told "yes, it's company policy".
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