Why do people sell guns that are allegely "NIB" and "never fired"

[leadcounsel]

Curious as to why so many guns are advertised as "New In Box" and/or "Never Fired." Are we to really believe that someone went out and bought a gun from an FFL brand new only to decide later that they wanted to turn around and sell it, probably at a small loss?

 

[Oro]

Couple things:

1) Yep, people do indeed buy guns and never shoot them. Then they need cash or get some version of buyer's remorse.

2) Technically, those aren't "NIB" guns. Only guns new from a dealer are "New." Even if they take it home and wrap it up, it's used. If they go to sell it, they can advertise it as "ANIB" - meaning as new in the box, but not NIB.

 

[481]

Semantic distinctions aside, it happens.

New is new. Unfired is unfired.

I have several "safe queens" intended as legacy and inheritance pieces.

While I've no plans to sell them ever, I have several friends who've attempted to do the same thing as I have and had to liquidate a few due to financial hardship.

Some of those now sit in my safe and were obtained at very nice (for me, that is) prices.

 

[Rexster]

Yes. Most folks never, or rarely, shoot their guns. I work security one day a week at a jewelry store, that used to be a full-line pawn shop. One of the older employees there told me that 90% of the guns that people pawned or sold were unfired. Many had dings from being kept in a drawer with other things, but fired little, if at all.

 

[wankerjake]

Yeah it happens. I sold a ruger LCR for a lady I work with that she never fired. She doesn't shoot much. She bought it, her husband lost his job, so she had me sell it. Now are all the NIB claims for real...I doubt it.

A lot of folks aren't as into guns and shooting as we are.

 

[Ed Ames]

In some cases it's because they are as-NIB or never fired. I bought one gun which I'm convinced was never fired until I got it...it had zero wear including any signs of brass feeding through the magazines, but (expected, normal) wear developed after the first 10rds I fired. It was 20+ years old when I got it. It wasn't represented as never fired, but evidence is evidence. Most of the guns I buy are old and heavily used, 'cause that's what I like.

Most of the time, though, I think people are just liars. They clean the guns before they sell, and if the gun cleans up well they call it unfired, thinking it'll get them an extra dollar.

 

[jakemccoy]

I hate to admit it, but I have two rifles bought over two years ago that I've never shot. I just haven't gotten around to it. The rifle range is inconvenient, and my handguns and shotguns have served well to get the edge off.

 

[trbon8r]

I'm taking a rifle I bought and never fired to a local shop tomorrow to see if I can work a trade towards something I actually will fire.

Not likely I will work a deal though. Gun dealers like to buy a gun from some schmuck for $200 and put it in the rack for $500, while charging you full boat retail and then some for what they have in the case.

 

[Rexster]

I have several I have not yet fired, but I am in a pre-retirement acquisition mode, buying while I can afford them. Also, I live in a small city, surrounded my a sprawling mega-metroplex, so getting out of town to shoot much is not easy. I plan to move after I retire, and live on enough acreage to shoot at least handguns, shotguns, and rimfires on my own property.

 

[Dazen]

I have a Bushmaster Predator that has been sitting in the safe for 3 years that still has yet to be fired along with a Colt SAA in 44-40. I also live in an area where there are no real gun ranges to speak off. There are 200,000 people around here and only one range. That one range is garbage and they charge $200 every September 2nd or something like that. Doesn't matter when you joined you have to pay those dues that date, screw that.

 

[pancakeofdoom]

i had an FEG GKK .45 i bought for $150 that was "used".

stripped it down and it seemed as though it had never been opened up, fired even once, and it still had the factory shipping goo on the inside.

 

[yongxingfreesty]

Ive got a couple of glocks i havent touched. they are new and unfired.

 

[nwilliams]

Technically you can sell guns as brand new but you can't be doing it to make a profit, that would make you a dealer and without an FFL and you'd be breaking the law. This also applies to used guns as well. If you buy a new or used gun at a gun shop because you think you can resell it yourself and make a profit then you are breaking the law. At least this is my understanding, I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on the internet.

I've sold guns on gunbroker that were LNIB but I always select "used" when it asks you to state the condition. Besides I've never sold a gun that I didn't shoot at least a couple times before selling it, so I'd be lying if I said any gun I've sold was brand new.

 

[Ed Ames]

Being even more technical, there is absolutely nothing saying you can't sell guns to make a profit. The law says you can't be a dealer without a license, and says:

"The term “dealer” means
(A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail,
(B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or
(C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term “licensed dealer” means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter. "

Making a profit is not the same as running a business. Whether you are running a business is a judgment call involving frequency of sales and so on.

 

[nwilliams]

Being even more technical, there is absolutely nothing saying you can't sell guns to make a profit. The law says you can't be a dealer without a license

True but that is an extremely gray area and I would still tread carefully.

 

[Boba Fett]

Making a profit is not the same as running a business. Whether you are running a business is a judgment call involving frequency of sales and so on.

Assuming you don't come under the definition of dealer as Ed Ames laid out, would it be correct to assume that part of what the ATF looks at is how much of your income can be attributed to the sale of firearms?

For example, if you make $100k a year and $70k is from firearms sales, I would think the ATF would have a problem if you're unlicensed. Clearly you are making your living selling firearms.

But say only $2k of your $100k comes from firearms sales, I doubt they would have any issues.




I suppose the easiest way to find out if someone is concerned about it would be to contact the NRA or the ATF.



As for the OP, I have sold a NIB firearm that I didn't want. I traded for a handgun, put it in the safe, decided about a year later I didn't really want it, waited until there weren't too many of them on GunBroker.com and sold it. I made more than my trade was worth AND more than the dealer had the firearm listed for. I had intended to keep it...I purchased an extra mag and specialty part for it...but I decided I didn't want to start buying 40 S&W. I try not to own every caliber out there, though given the current ammo shortages in places perhaps a little more caliber diversification isn't such a bad thing

 

[coloradokevin]

There are certainly a number of folks out there who have NIB guns that they just haven't fired for one reason or another. One of my coworkers routinely buys guns and keeps them only as safe queens. He is a "collector" in the most literal sense of the word, as most of his guns are bought with the express intent of NOT being fired.

Generally speaking, I'm the kind of guy who likes to shoot my guns. I currently have one firearm that hasn't been fired, and that is a commemorative pistol that was made for my department. It has been handled, but is otherwise ANIB. Someday I might shoot it, as I don't ever plan to sell it anyway.

I don't believe there is anything stopping someone from advertising their personally owned firearm as a NIB item, as long as it is NIB. Just because it isn't being offered by an FFL doesn't mean that it is "used". Being used makes a gun used, not being owned and stored in the original box. That said, I'm hesitant to believe a lot of individual sellers on this fact, simply because it would be so easy to shoot a gun while still claiming that it is NIB. By that standard I think it is a safer bet to assume that a firearm that is purchased from a reputable FFL is NIB.

 

[ElToro]

i have a couple of bolt guns i havent had time to get scoped and bore sited. doenst mean i wont shoot the eventually.

i also have several AR lowers (ANIB) but no box, just plastic wrap! and a few mauser actions i havent made in to rifles yet... what to do?

 

[Jim Watson]

Back when we went by NRA descriptions instead of Blue Book percentages, "New" meant "Not previously sold at retail." "Perfect" meant as new in all respects.

The language evolves... or degenerates.

 

[Motodeficient]

Most handguns are fired at the factory. So "unfired" is rarely true anyway.

 

[JTH]

If you have the cash and can afford the rifle/gun and know what you're buying, they can be a good investment for the future. If you would have bought a ****load of SKS's 15 years ago, you'd easily double your purchase price and the same with AKs. Too bad we can't see in to the future!

 

[TexasRifleman]

True but that is an extremely gray area and I would still tread carefully.

It's not a gray area at all. Federal law is very clear on what "in the business" means.

This is only part of it:

"The term “dealer” means
(A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail,
(B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or
(C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term “licensed dealer” means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter. "

You have to look at the definition of "in the business". It is extremely clear:

(C) as applied to a dealer in fire- arms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the en- hancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

And then, in case it's still not clear, the law goes on to define "principle objective of livelihood and profit"

The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is pre- dominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liq- uidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who en- gages in the regular and repetitive pur- chase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism.

 

[Tirod]

Having handled a really nice engraved gold Colt .45 in LNIB unfired condition, yeah, they are out there. Guns - especially rare one of a kinds, limited editions, etc are deliberately kept in LNIB or better condition and never fired.

The SHOT Show 2010 had a gold plated Thompson with extra long finned barrel and matching drum magazine. It also had a "Do Not Touch" sign. Unfired guns are actually more numerous in some circles than shooters.

I have a 870 Express 12ga pump about 17 years old in unfired condition. Just never went turkey hunting with it, retail jobs keep interfering, and I have others I do shoot. It does have handling and storage wear, but by golly, it's still as rough as factory new and won't slide open by gravity. Yet it still commands a slight premium over a nicely broken in one.

Go figure.

 

[ClayInTX]

On making a profit:
When you take inflation into account you need to approximately double your money every ten years just to get back your original value.

Of course the IRS doesn’t see it this way.

 

[Edmond]

My rant has something to do with this.

Quite a few folks are out there selling guns that they bought, never been fired (their claim) and want to sell for the same price as a new gun.

But isn't it like a car? If it's been titled, or in the firearms case, the ATF form filled out, it's used, right?

What trips me up even more are the guys who claim that they've never even taken the gun out of the box. Seriously?