Why do we have CCW

Do we need CCW

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Fn-P9

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I was pondering; Why do we even need CCW "permits". In Washington to get a permit requires $65, two or so hours out your time, trip to the court house, and to NOT be a criminal. Say me for instance, I have never had a felony, domestic violence, drunk driving or any other number of bad things. So I am able to legally open carry here without a permit. If I can open carry why not concealed freely. Shall not be infri.........

Doesn't this follow enforce current laws, don't make more to trip you up. Or is it something more than random law making.

Is there anybody here that would rather have "free" CCW (no permit) or are we mostly on a consensus here that only concealed carry requires a permit.
 
I think we'd all love to have Alaska-esque no-permit open or concealed or car or auto or home or wherever carry. The CCW laws are just now maturing... the rest is next.
 
If you need to pay fees, get checked out, take a class, and carry a state issued permit to do something, it is NOT a right.

Unrestricted gun ownership and carry is the only way to restore the true RKBA.
 
I disagree with needing a permit to exercise a RIGHT, but I have a CCW...
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Think of it like shooting -- when the sights wobble off target, hold what you got. When they wobble back on, increase your squeeze.

Let's keep what we got for now -- CCW -- and increase our squeeze.
 
Odd you should mention this. Just yesterday I saw the man responsible for bringing Vermont carry to Alaska at the store. He's a Democrat, which is always good to remember.
 
There are certain people who shouldn't be armed, we all know that. But common sense tells me that if you are legally armed, you should be able to carry without special permission.

On the other hand, I found the legalese part of my CCW class VERY educational, and I'm glad I am not carrying on the street without that knowledge/information.

You have GOT to know where the law says to draw the line; what is acceptable and what is not if you are going to use your gun in self-defense.

Catch 22?

I'm not sure if I particularly want people out there packing who don't know that they can't shoot me because I failed to yield and we got in a traffic accident. Stuff like that...

I think the education part of CCW is particularly pertinent. I don't agree with the fingerprinting, fees, background checks, etc.

Ideally you could have a third party teach a class regarding these laws and they would issue you some kind of card that says you have been through the legal aspects of carrying, and that would be all you needed to have on you to carry legally. Not state issued or regulated. Some kind of certified private enterprise teaching, kind of like CCW classes now, just without all the gubment paperwork.
 
My dream system:
Open Carry and CCW with restrictions with no license. Restrictions being whatever a locality feels is appropriate for the "unwashed masses" (Private property restrictions, possibly schools etc)

Then, with a license and background check, the restrictions disappear. With a license, you can carry anywhere, including airliners, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for unlimited, unrestricted carry, but I do feel that you have to give SOMETHING to the hopolophobes, and something like this might be the best bet, at least in my mind
 
be careful with open carry in WA. there was a story on here about someone that was open carrying in a Fred Meyer and got in a whole peck of trouble when someone called the police on him.

RCW 9.41.270 reads:
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
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so all it takes is one scared soccer mom to call 911 and tell them she's "alarmed" or "intimidated" and you could be placed under arrest. its happened before. the wording leaves a lot open to interpretation by those around you as to whether or not you're "intimidating" or "alarming" others.

'tis best to just get the CPL. it may not be a perfect system but its what we've got for now.

Bobby
 
I live in GA and have a GA Firearms License. However, I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense for a law-abiding citizen to have to pay a fee and go through fingerprinting and background checks for, as has been stated, something that is a legally recognized Right under our State and Federal Constitutions.

The way the law reads, Georgians can carry a loaded sidearm openly or concealed with a GFL as long as it's in some kind of holster. Georgians can also carry a sidearm in the act of hunting or fishing without a permit as long as the sidearm isn't concealed. It must however be unloaded when not hunting or fishing. If someone, not a felon, is allowed to carry a loaded sidearm while hunting, it don't make much sense to make 'em unload it to legally carry it elsewhere.
 
be careful with open carry in WA. there was a story on here about someone that was open carrying in a Fred Meyer and got in a whole peck of trouble when someone called the police on him.

RCW 9.41.270 reads:

Quote:
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

so all it takes is one scared soccer mom to call 911 and tell them she's "alarmed" or "intimidated"
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This is incorrect.

One source http://www.opencarry.org/pdf/FederalWay.pdf

And another http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/542.html

And a third http://www.opencarry.org/pdf/KingCountySheriffsBulletin.pdf
 
The Second Amendment guarantees the citizens of the United States of America the right to bear arms. The Second Amendment DOES NOT say what kind, how many, or that you need a license to carry!

If that is indeed true, then HOW did it get to the point that a State government could override the Federal government?! I mean, if the Constitution is the “law of the land”, then who are the States to tell us that we cannot carry a gun open or concealed? Well, to be quite honest, it is because WE let it get that way.
 
i'm well aware of Federal Way's and King County's stances, however, not every LE agency in the state knows the law or interprets it differently. here's the guy i was talking about. http://fishorman.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_archive.html he eventually won his case and the conviction was dropped but look what he had to go through. open carry in WA comes with the risk of something very similar happening to you. in the end, you will probably win on appeal but you may still be placed under arrest, miss work, have legal bills and hassles, etc. i'm just saying that it may not be worth it. something to consider before hand anyway.

Bobby
 
I accidentially voted for "carry freely" but then I realized that it was "conceal carry freely" that was intended.

Personally, I think people should be able to carry openly if they so please. That's what the BoR guarantees. However, the concealment of firearms on one's person I see as somewhat underhanded, and something I associate with shady behavior and the criminal element - even though I carry concealed myself. I do realize that a cultural change would be required for this to happen.

The Second Amendment guarantees the citizens of the United States of America the right to bear arms. The Second Amendment DOES NOT say what kind, how many, or that you need a license to carry!
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No, it doesn't speak of regulation. But if something is regulated (in the modern sense) by the government, it isn't a right then, is it? Then it's a privilege. What if our news was regulated by the government, or you had to get permission to express political views? That's not a 'free press' and it's certainly not free speech.
 
I think it is prudent to err on the side of caution with this... another nail in the coffin for a criminal I am all for it. Keep the licenses.
 
it really doesn't matter what i think. the bill of rights says no one can infringe on what it says about this issue.
 
I think it is prudent to err on the side of caution with this... another nail in the coffin for a criminal I am all for it. Keep the licenses.
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You mean another nail in the coffin for freedom and honest people.

Criminals already carry without licenses.

(I love the mindset that thinks a criminal will rob, murder and rape, but wouldn't carry without a license, because that would be breaking the law!)
 
I do not think that what we carry, or how we carry it should be of any concern to the government.
the problem with permits, and taxes, is that someone gets to choose what is good, and what is bad.
If any of you would like to stand up and say "This man should carry, and that man should not." I have a question for you. will you allow me to choose whether you should or not?

While you consider that, remember this. I am 57 and I think anyone under thirty years old is driven by their hormones, and are emotionally unstable, because of it? Just a sample of "unreasonable regulation" but you should understand my point.
 
igpoobah, very good.
I believe the constitution allows for anyone to carry, anything, in any condition, concealed or not.
The 2A does not stipulate anything besides the right to own and bear arms.

On the same note knowing the law makes me a more responsible gun carrier and owner, I am also so much more informed than some guy who just straps on a gun and open carries.

So the permit forces us to learn the laws, which is good.
It also causes us to pay a fee for what is a right compared to a privilege.

Some fine lines here...........
 
I feel CCW reqires extensive practical training and knowledge. Strapping a gun to your belt and calling it good doesn't cut it with me. A permit verifying SOME sort of decent training program to me is a good thing.

Background checks...that's a can of worms I don't care to open.

EDIT: Another thing. I don't think they had concealed carry back in the 1700's when the 2A was written. Right to bear arms consisted primarily of rifles.
 
Another thing. I don't think they had concealed carry back in the 1700's when the 2A was written. Right to bear arms consisted primarily of rifles.
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Yes they did have concealed carry, but it was primarily practiced by criminals. An honest man had no reason to hide his weapons. As far as carrying rifles around. Yeah, I would love to, but just go ahead and try walking down the street with a rifle or shotgun slung over your shoulder. You'd get far more funny looks, and be harrassed by the cops a lot more than if you were open carrying a handgun.
 
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