Why doesn't the .45 look more powerful than the 9mm on paper?

[FTA84]

In relating momentum to force, you have force = (change in momentum) / (change in time) which is equal to mass x acceleration (the definition of force is mass x acceleration). Acceleration is equal to 1/2 times the velocity squared. That's why the use of 1/2*m*v^2 is applicable to this debate, and m*v is not.

Choice of conservation of energy or conservation of momentum are both seemingly valid. These type of particle physics problems are traditionally done with conservation of momentum. Open any physics book and see for yourself.

A more interesting example is connecting charged capacitors in a certain way (I won't explain). You get two vastly different answers depending on if you use conservation of charge or conservation of energy. Turns out conservation of charge is the correct way, the excess energy is lost via radio waves. That's why you need to back up conceptual physics with experiments (as I did).

Anyway your logic for why you must do things how is completely skewed. Force is actually the time derivative of momentum. It is only defined as F=m*a when the mass is constant. If you want to talk about something like a rocket, you need to talk about linear momentum and define F = d/dt (m*v).

But of course you probably know that. I only teach this stuff for a living and last I checked, each student pays $112/hr for my services. But what do I know...

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

buff51,
ya but they use fmj,not premium sd.
same thing happened over 100 years ago when we went from 45 colt to 38 spcl. wouldn't stop philipinos which is why we thankfully have our beloved 45acp 1911.

WRONG. The .38 Special was never used during the Philippine Insurrection. That was the .38 LONG COLT. The .38 Special was designed as an improvement over the weaker .38 Long Colt. Not to be confused with the nonexistent ".45 Long Colt". I'm sick of this myth being constantly repeated in these ridiculous "9mm Parabellum vs. .45 ACP" debates.

 

[Chem Geek]

FTA84, you make some good points, and I had this great argument all ready, but decided it should be handled via PM. So you got PM.

Long live 9mm magnum!

 

[Autolycus]

Not this again!?!

 

[McCall911]

Not this again!?!

<sigh>
Yes, I'm afraid so...

The same old "measuring" contest!

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Its hard for me to believe that a 9mm versus 45 thread is still going strong after all this time. Everything that could ever be thought or said about 9 v. 45 has already been said, many times, and no one on either side of the argument is changing there mind.

Nude Lindsay Lohan saver

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[ArfinGreebly]

Oh, Yeah!?

Well, my dad can lick your dad with BOTH hands behind his back!

Gads.

All good academic stuff, but I sense we've left out an important element: quantity.

We haven't argued whether 8 x .45 ACP > 16 x 9mm.

 

[mavracer]

WRONG. The .38 Special was never used during the Philippine Insurrection. That was the .38 LONG COLT. The .38 Special was designed as an improvement over the weaker .38 Long Colt. Not to be confused with the nonexistent ".45 Long Colt". I'm sick of this myth being constantly repeated in these ridiculous "9mm Parabellum vs. .45 ACP" debates.

sorry you are correct it was the 38 long colt however my statement was correct otherwise. if you use fmj or lead round nose .451, 45acp or .454, original 45 colt, is better than .355,9mm or .357,38 spcl or .380 38 long colt heal based bullet.now if you use modern hollow points the gap is narrowed but 45>40>9mm>32>25>22

PS. if ya want to get technical the 38 S&W special was an improvement to the 38 S&W to compete with the 38 long colt.

 

[rantingredneck]

I wouldn't want to be shot in the pinky toe with either. So there.

 

[mavracer]

yep heard bout a feller shot in the pinky toe with a ( paintball,bb gun ,25 acp take your pick) he tripped fell hit his knoggon on da coffee table DOA.

ROFLMAO

 

[geo57]

The most laughable thing in all this ? Someone seriously promoting Ron Paul for president . He is big buddies with the 9-11 conspiracy nuts like Rosie, Bill Maher and Sheen, and also publicly proclaimed in 1 of the debates that it's our fault terrorists and rouge nations hate us, originally started targeting us even before the barracks bombing in Beruit, and that we basically deserve what we get.

 

[vanfunk]

Quote:
WRONG. The .38 Special was never used during the Philippine Insurrection. That was the .38 LONG COLT. The .38 Special was designed as an improvement over the weaker .38 Long Colt. Not to be confused with the nonexistent ".45 Long Colt". I'm sick of this myth being constantly repeated in these ridiculous "9mm Parabellum vs. .45 ACP" debates.

sorry you are correct it was the 38 long colt however my statement was correct otherwise. if you use fmj or lead round nose .451, 45acp or .454, original 45 colt, is better than .355,9mm or .357,38 spcl or .380 38 long colt heal based bullet.now if you use modern hollow points the gap is narrowed but 45>40>9mm>32>25>22

PS. if ya want to get technical the 38 S&W special was an improvement to the 38 S&W to compete with the 38 long colt.

Well, truth be told, the .45 Colt revolvers they pressed into service in the Phillipines for use against the Moros weren't effective either. Dunno where that myth came from, but the reality is that the the lowly .38 Long Colt, the mighty .45 Colt, and even the .30-40 Krag service rifle cartridge were not particularly effective against the Moros. The only small arm to have a decisive effect was the Winchester '97 pump shotgun.

As to 9mm vs. .45, neither is particularly effective in FMJ form, though I obviously wouldn't want to get hit with either. In their respective JHP defensive loadings, the gap in effectiveness is very narrow and I'd feel well armed with either. I choose the .45 ACP in the 1911 format because it's what I shoot best, and I feel that the 64% increase in frontal area for the .45 (over 9mm) gives the bullet more of a chance, however slight, to do a bit more damage to tissue.

vanfunk

 

[mavracer]

the .45 Colt revolvers they pressed into service in the Phillipines for use against the Moros weren't effective.
I feel that the 64% increase in frontal area for the .45 (over 9mm) gives the bullet more of a chance, however slight, to do a bit more damage to tissue.

now I'm confused the 45 colt(~255 grn at 900fps) is no better than the 38 long colt (~150 grn at 850fps) but the 45 acp (~230 grn at 850fps) is slightly better than the 9mm (~124 grn at 1250 fps).
oh and I think its moors not sure bout that either now

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Well, truth be told, the .45 Colt revolvers they pressed into service in the Phillipines for use against the Moros weren't effective either.

A couple of years back, the American Rifleman did a story on an old cavalryman who left his weapons (including his .45 SAA) to a young fellow. The article covered the old horseman's own experience with the SAA -- and in his hands-on experience, the SAA in .45 Colt was more effective than the .38 Long Colt DAs on issue at that time.

If you read accounts of people who served against the Moros (and yes, it is Moro, not Moor), including Douglas MacArthur, you will find nothing but praise for the .45 Colt.

 

[VanEasten]

With modern ammo .45ACP doesn't have enough ballistic advantage over 9mm to justify the much higher ammo costs, recoil, gun size/weight and other associated disadvantages.

For many shooters, 9mm is arguably superior to all the service rounds since it's practice ammo is so much cheaper. This allows for more practice and higher confidence, which are far more important that a marginal gain in ballistics due to caliber selection.

Van

 

[rantingredneck]

oh and I think its moors not sure bout that either now

Moro Insurrection (article from freerepublic.com)

 

[oldschool]

My 2 carry/play guns are .45 and 9mm either will do the job if I do mine. I carry which ever one I happen to be in the mood for 1911/BHP same controls. But it is very amusing to watch the look on someone face as you drop their 9mm straight through the barrel of your .45 that’s about the only difference and if you give a criminal enough time to think about it your either slow on the trigger or shouldn’t have broke leather in the first place. That being said the .45 stays on the night stand only because I’m more comfortable with its Index not the maybe 75ft/lbs of energy difference or ~2mm difference in diameter.

 

[Geno]

The only twist that could gotten more of a rise out of people would have been if the question had been asked Re: the Glock 9mm versus the 1911 .45 ACP.

 

[mavracer]

ok ok I said I wasn't sure.course don't think it'll matter if you don't know the BG name.can you answer the other part why his post said the 45 colt had no effect but he thought a 45 was margionaly better.
doc every one knows the only thing better than 9mm glocks are 88 magnums and plasma phase rifles in the 40 watt range.

 

[texagun]

I think this argument was settled on page 2 of this thread by GotGlock.

 

[rantingredneck]

We haven't argued whether 8 x .45 ACP > 16 x 9mm.

I've got the solution to that one too.

Anyone who thinks 8 .45ACP's isn't enough for me to hit them with line up on the right.

Anyone who thinks 1 9mm round COM won't hurt line up on the left.

Testing begins in 5 minutes.

 

[GotGlock]

I thought it was settled too but i was wrong.

 

[geo57]

GotGlock, before you put your heart, soul & $ into the Paul campaign, you may want to check his public statements and voting record in Congress. Besides being openly soft on terrorism, he twice voted " NO " on a bill that would prohibit the possibilty of a firearm manufacturer or dealer being sued if a gun was misused by some idiot. He also voted " NO " on a bill that would enable otherwise legal firearm buyers at gunshows to have a 1 day wait period instead of 3.

 

[McCall911]

Is it news to anybody that the .45 ACP bullet is bigger and heavier than that of the 9mm?

 

[mavracer]

shoot a 45acp is so big the hole in a 230 golddot weighs 5 pounds