Why don't sellers ship to CA?

[Cutter]

It's a little frustrating looking on some sites like gunbroker or gunsamerica and finding a great deal only to be hit with "no CA sales" on something thats perfectly legal in the state. Sorry for whining, but it just sucks.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Too many weird laws in California for those of us living else where to have to keep up with. Its not the fault of the sellers, its the fault of the state of California.

 

[Kind of Blued]

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.co...s-ffl-to-ffl-gun-shipments-starting-july-1st/

 

[CapnMac]

I'd guess that it would not take but a couple "oops" events where the transaction was shot down on the CA end to just make a blanket policy.

But, I'm speculating. I no longer sell stuff in Canada for the difficulties I've had.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I serve as a middle man FFL to California. Ask the sellers if they are willing to ship to me. I'm located in Michigan.

The laws aren't that difficult to understand. It just takes effort to want to learn them.

 

[Cutter]

If you are willing. I might have a sale pretty soon. If the seller agrees, would you PM your info to me? That would be a big help

 

[jakemccoy]

A seller who won't ship to California is helping the antis win, regardless of the seller's intention. The sellers think they're making a statement, but to who exactly? It's just a lazy maneuver. All anti-gun people are thrilled about sellers not shipping to California. There are ways to ship to California. As another poster noted, the laws aren't that hard to understand.

 

[mnrivrat]

A seller who won't ship to California is helping the antis win, regardless of the seller's intention. The sellers think they're making a statement, but to who exactly? It's just a lazy maneuver. All anti-gun people are thrilled about sellers not shipping to California. There are ways to ship to California. As another poster noted, the laws aren't that hard to understand.

And here is another reason frankly - Instead of correcting the real problem, too many in California just blame the seller and call them lazy. How about if you in CA get off your lazy rear ends and elect leaders who have some lick of sense.

When sellers get there shipments opened and torn apart by government officals in California, and when they continue to be called lazy, or stupid by some of the so called buyers in that state, it gives little insentive to bother jumping through extra hoops - even if they aren' that big a deal on the surface.

 

[Cutter]

This post was not intended to call sellers in other states lazy or anything like that. I was merely asking why.

 

[kingpin008]

And here is another reason frankly - Instead of correcting the real problem, too many in California just blame the seller and call them lazy. How about if you in CA get off your lazy rear ends and elect leaders who have some lick of sense.

When sellers get there shipments opened and torn apart by government officals in California, and when they continue to be called lazy, or stupid by some of the so called buyers in that state, it gives little insentive to bother jumping through extra hoops - even if they aren' that big a deal on the surface.

Bingo. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I'm not gonna sugar coat this

I have 49 other states I can sell to and have no additional hoops to jump through. These other states have more than enough potential buyers to move my guns to with no skin off my nose whatsoever.

So in short California shooters as far as sellers like me are concerned you've been written off as lost cause. You fellas are simply rearranging chairs on a ship that's going down.

Back in the 80's auto manufacturers made special models for California "remember California emission" well they did this cause your state was such a large part of the market share.

Well in the world of firearms y'all aren't much of the market share.

 

[jakemccoy]

And here is another reason frankly - Instead of correcting the real problem, too many in California just blame the seller and call them lazy. How about if you in CA get off your lazy rear ends and elect leaders who have some lick of sense.

When sellers get there shipments opened and torn apart by government officals in California, and when they continue to be called lazy, or stupid by some of the so called buyers in that state, it gives little insentive to bother jumping through extra hoops - even if they aren' that big a deal on the surface.

This is exactly what I was talking about above. To whom exactly are you trying to teach a lesson? I probably put more effort into pro-gun rights than 99% of gun owners. Nevertheless, you're trying to teach me a lesson about how I personally should be held responsible for the elected officials. It still remains that anti-gun people love you.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I serve as a middle man FFL to California. Ask the sellers if they are willing to ship to me. I'm located in Michigan.

The laws aren't that difficult to understand. It just takes effort to want to learn them.

That's a smart, entrepreneurial move on your part, and even though it doesn't effect me one bit, I truly appreciate you doing it.

 

[bottom shelf]

You can have 10+ mags in CA, they are not illegal. No mag disconnect needed on hand guns already the approved list or ones private party.
you can buy as many hand guns as you like, you can only buy one NEW hand gun in 30 days. you can buy as many as you want private party.
its not 10 days, its 10, 24 hour increments. CCW are actually very common in most countys in CA. I would hazard to guess that we have more CCW in CA then you do in your state.

See, this is exactly the problem. The XDm I bought 2 days ago in NC says right on the box "NOT LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA AND W/HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE". This seems to mean it can't be sold in California with the included 16 rd mags. Right or wrong, it seems to disagree with the quote above. Also, 10 days vs. 10 24 hour increments? You gotta be kiddin'! Like other posters, I'll just sell to someone else rather than spend hours reading CA laws. Call it lazy if you want. I just wanna sell a gun without having to become an expert on one specific state's laws.

 

[krs]

Just about every state in the union has been injured monetarily by the onset of internet purchasing in which buyers in any state can purchase goods from out of state sellers and thereby circumvent their home state sales tax requirements. Most of us, I'm sure, have taken advantage of the circumstance to obtain a savings of tax due.

Some states have made attempts at collecting those lost tax revenues from sellers out of their boundaries and have met with limited or little success when a seller operates entirely out of the state boundaries. After all, what retailer in Hobeken is going to willingly make sure that sales tax is applied for each article he sells and distributed correctly to each state he has sent an article to?

There was a requirement put in place to require that the taxes be collected and paid to states by large retail operations selling online who also maintained brick and mortar outlets within the buyer's state. Sears would be an example of one of these and there are several more, as I'm sure we all are aware. You buy a book from Amazon books and pay your state sales tax, no matter where in Amazon the book is shipped from.

Nevertheless, states have been largely unsuccessful to date in their attempts to levy and collect taxes on goods purchased by their residents from sellers outside of their states because it requires that the seller collect and administer the money, submitting it in quarterly or annual payments to the state franchise tax board or whatever the relevant agency is called in that state.

But the states do keep trying. Was it South Carolina that had such a requirement ultimately put down in federal court? Did Georgia try one as well? I'm not up on each and every such activity beyond noticing that there have been attempts made legislatively from within a state to collect sales taxes for articles that are purchased by that state's residents and shipped into that state without submission of appropriate tax to the buyer's state coffers.

The states do keep trying. One roadblock that has made such tax collection difficult has been the lack of a paper trail, an invoice, an amount to tax with a seller of record selling to a proven in-state buyer. A document of transaction completed showing from whom, to whom, and how much.

How nice of you non California sellers. You provide the state your identification, you submit the number of your invoice to a state that has no business in your affairs so that once there is a clear picture of the scope of the project a new institution of an innovative tax collection plan, a model for other states, can be put in place. Didn't they make it easy to do?! Why a couple of minutes and you're all set (the very fact of their having taken the trouble to make it easy should have made your alarm bells go off- since when is gov'mt stuff easy?).

And now they'll have everything they need to send out their letters of demand for payment of taxes due and past due to each and every non California seller of guns who was dumb enough or greedy enough to fall into their so carefully laid snare.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I never send an invoice along with any firearm I ship to CA. If the customer wants a receipt, they can print one off of my website.

Since the shipping approval letter does not contain the make or model or price of a firearm, only whether it is a handgun or long gun and how many of each, how are they going to know how much they paid for it? Since I didn't buy it to resell it to them, merely provided a transfer service, I have no way of knowing how much they paid for it either.

ETA: Also the shipping invoice number does not coincide with the order number in any way shape or form.

 

[krs]

In my state if I buy a car from a private party I have to submit a bill of sale for determination of 'use tax' to be paid when I register the car. If I buy a near new BMW and submit a document showing that I paid only $5K for it, the agent has a table of values to consult and can override my bill of sale using a state determined valuation of the car.

But of course, there's no Kelley's blue book.............wait, did I just say "blue book"?

Freakshow.you ought to know that all an accountant needs is a starting point.

You submit an invoice number to obtain your "OK to ship" notice, right? When they come they'll expect that invoice number to mean something.

It doesn't matter what's actually on a piece of paper - what matters is what can be made of the existence of that piece of paper.

 

[deadin]

you can only buy one NEW hand gun in 30 days. you can buy as many as you want private party.

OK, I've got a used "Not Legal in CA" hi-cap gun. (Or, for that matter, any handgun, even on the "OK" list) Just how do I legally get it into CA for a FTF sale or sell it to you here in WA?

 

[harmonic]

You can have 10+ mags in CA, they are not illegal.

Only if you had them before the ban. You cannot purchase such mags today in kalifornistan unless you're a cop. That's what the OP meant and you knew it.

No mag disconnect needed on hand guns already the approved list or ones private party.

The mere fact that you have an approved list of guns (your nanny state will allow you to buy) is bad enough.

you can buy as many hand guns as you like, you can only buy one NEW hand gun in 30 days. you can buy as many as you want private party.

You can only buy one handgun, new or used, from a dealer in a 30 day period. Yeah, you can buy more from private individuals, but they're seeing the value of keeping their non approved guns. I would drive all over the state looking for such, and within just a few years after kal passed their Stalinist gun laws, the supply began drying up.

its not 10 days, its 10, 24 hour increments.

You're playing with words. It's still a pain.

CCW are actually very common in most countys in CA.

As a former resident of kalifornistan (until three years ago) I'm calling BS on this one. Even if such were true, Joe Average can't get a CCL in most counties in kal unless he has some special "in" with somebody, and he can't get a CCL in the most populated counties (e.g. LA county).

And, the last I heard, Orange County was in the process of revoking licenses that had already been issued.

I would hazard to guess that we have more CCW in CA then you do in your state.

Again, I want to see the stats on that one. I had heard some of the northern counties were "shall issue," but northern kal counties aren't particularly heavily populated.










.

 

[krs]

Ten years ago, when I was a resident of California last (I'm third generation and my fourth and now fifth generations are still there ) a BIG flap arose over the sheriff of whatever northern California county encompasses Vacaville making a public display of his willingness to grant a CCW to most anybody who requested one. People flocked from all over the state, but he was quickly shut down on out-of-county resident license granting, and was later shut down altogether.

With an environment like that I'd be interested to see what might substantiate the above claim that "CCW are actually very common in most countys in CA". Ten years ago I wouldn't have believed such a claim and, gasp, I still don't.

All I hear are of instances in law that show me that my decision to pull up and leave my home state once and for all was a good decision for reasons gun related as well as for several other reasons.

 

[rbernie]

It's a little frustrating looking on some sites like gunbroker or gunsamerica and finding a great deal only to be hit with "no CA sales" on something thats perfectly legal in the state.

As KoB posted in his link, the recently-enacted 'CA Firearms Shipment Approval Number' requirements seems to be that which drives away a number of FFLs from shipping complete firearms into the state. They simply don't want to deal with adopting a business process for shipping guns that is unique to one state.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php

Here's a link to the AuctionArms forum discussion between various online sellers WRT the new law:

http://www.auctionarms.com/Help/Forum/DisplayForum.cfm?SubjectID=24043

 

[loneviking]

It's not just the laws, it's having to deal with the Cal. DOJ, begging them to allow (sometimes) the deal to go through. The Cal DOJ loves to split hairs over what's legal and what's not, which means a lot of FFL's just don't want to bother with the hassle. I've heard some of the owners at a local shop going around and around with the Cal. DOJ and it's a PIA.

 

[ScareyH22A]

Kind of Blued - That's kind of what the 10 day wait is for isn't it? And FFL's have to be on the DOJ list as I remember.

Harmonic - You understood exactly what I meant.

KRS - Someone had a video from youtube about a watch shop owner who in the 90's was held up 4 times and he shot and wounded or killed all suspects. They said in the video that he was 1 of 2 Santa Monica residents that had CCW's. They weren't exactly giving those away back then and definitely not now.

Here's the vid if you wanna watch it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w&feature=player_embedded

 

[kostner]

''And here is another reason frankly - Instead of correcting the real problem, too many in California just blame the seller and call them lazy. How about if you in CA get off your lazy rear ends and elect leaders who have some lick of sense."

After working in a gun store /shooting range for five years I discovered that most people are not members of the NRA or CPRA and are unaware of what has happen to their rights in this state. Everyday they would blame me for all the foolish laws we had to follow. Very few would be willing to write a letter or make a call to Sacramento to protest these rules by the DOJ. And yes they vote for who ever the union tells them to. Year after year they re -elect the same clowns. Then blame everyone else for not wanting to jump through loops and pay extortion to DOJ just to be approved in Kali. Sorry but we have what we deserve for our lack of attention and support.

 

[harmonic]

So what the heck happened to the post of the defender of kalifornistan's reputation? The one I rebutted?