Monkeyshine
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- Apr 27, 2011
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I inherited a Remington 7600 in 30-06. Can't wait to get out to the range and test her out.
why don't we see more pump rifles
- Thread starter kd7nqb
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USAF_Vet
Member
I've seen .22 pumps aplenty. The only pump rifle other than .22 I've seen/ held is the Remington 760. If it were me, I'd opt for the 740. My LGS has one of each for under $350-ish. I'm just not in the market for one.
I think a lot of it has to do with tradition. Traditionally, rifles aren't pump, although there have been many makes and models that disprove the theory. I bet if you put one in a movie or video game, they'd sell more of 'em.
I think a lot of it has to do with tradition. Traditionally, rifles aren't pump, although there have been many makes and models that disprove the theory. I bet if you put one in a movie or video game, they'd sell more of 'em.
I handled one of the Taurus Lightning pump rifles in .45 Colt at the gun store today. Very smooth action, nice looking casehardened frame and blued 24" barrel, with I believe 15 rounds in the magazine. It was about $200 less than the best price I've seen on one of the Italian Uberti Lightning rifles.
I have an original Colt Lightning in .38-40 WCF that was passed down through the family, and it is a quick-firing piece of hardware that deserves the name. This design lacks a disconnector, so that by holding back the trigger, it will fire as fast as you can work the short-stroke pump. I believe the modern reproductions follow the same design, but I haven't tried one out to test it. Looks like it would be fun for Cowboy Action Shooting, as it can easily shoot twice as fast as a lever action Winchester type rifle.
I have an original Colt Lightning in .38-40 WCF that was passed down through the family, and it is a quick-firing piece of hardware that deserves the name. This design lacks a disconnector, so that by holding back the trigger, it will fire as fast as you can work the short-stroke pump. I believe the modern reproductions follow the same design, but I haven't tried one out to test it. Looks like it would be fun for Cowboy Action Shooting, as it can easily shoot twice as fast as a lever action Winchester type rifle.
FWIW, I've never heard anyone complain about them. The first rifle I ever hunted with was a Remington 141 in .35 Remington. That thing seemed to kick like a beast at the time... but it did work reliably after several decades in the family.
But as I said, the 760/7600 are well thought of in this area. Granted, most hunters aren't likely to shoot more than 300 rounds out of them in their entire lives, but if push came to shove and I found myself using one to hunt or defend myself, I think I'd probably be adequately armed.
But as I said, the 760/7600 are well thought of in this area. Granted, most hunters aren't likely to shoot more than 300 rounds out of them in their entire lives, but if push came to shove and I found myself using one to hunt or defend myself, I think I'd probably be adequately armed.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
+1
Milsurp semi-autos are dang near perfect for hunting and they are better for SD. An SKS will dispatch deer efficiently, give you quick follow up shots, won't break the bank and its sufficiently accurate, at under $300.00 you are hard pressed to find a better deer rifle... unless of course you can't use a semi-auto.
sansone
Member
The newer 7600 series has a free floated barrel. The old 760 was not free floated and suffered the same accuracy issues as leverguns. I worked-up a load for it and got moa without much effort. I sincerely believe the 7600 has shed the accuracy issues and the follow-up shots are very fast. Unlike a semi, nothing is slamming around creating bad harmonics to disrupt accuracy. The 7400 (auto) suffers from this problem and accuracy is not as good as the pump.
Remington sold over 1 million 760 pumps. Then in the 80's released the 7600 pump. They sell fine.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
They don't sell fine enough for there to be any variety on the market. There are 900million choices for new boltguns and 1 choice for new centerfire pumps. Aside from the Lightning replicas.
They don't sell fine enough for there to be any variety on the market. There are 900million choices for new boltguns and 1 choice for new centerfire pumps. Aside from the Lightning replicas.
Remington is a very well run company. If they did not continue to sell, they would no longer offer. No question pumps are not popular, but they are not obscure by any reach. Browning I think was the last to have a pump (BPR) outside of Remington.
Remington is a very well run company. If they did not continue to sell, they would no longer offer. No question pumps are not popular, but they are not obscure by any reach. Browning I think was the last to have a pump (BPR) outside of Remington.
WNC Seabee
Member
My deer rifle is an odd man out within an odd man out.... a 760 chambered in .300 Savage. I love it!
sailorjosh
Member
The area where I hunt here in Ontario pump rifles are king. Out of the 14 or so guys in our hunting group, about 12 use a 760/7600. Sometimes a BLR, BAR, Remington 742/7400/750, or the odd Winchester will pop up. They're accurate and reliable (especially compared to Remington semis) for fast follow up shots that are sometimes necessary when doing driven hunts like is most common around here.
ADKWOODSMAN
Member
On our hunting lease in Northern NY we all hunted with 742's and when the 7400 came out a few failed so most bought 760's and 7600's.
I have two 742 Carbines in .308 that have never hiccuped, a 750 auto in .35 Whelen and a .358 conversion in the 760. They are all used off and on.
On another lease everyone started with Mod. 88 Win and 742's. Now everyone hunts with a bolt action most in .308--go figure.
I have two 742 Carbines in .308 that have never hiccuped, a 750 auto in .35 Whelen and a .358 conversion in the 760. They are all used off and on.
On another lease everyone started with Mod. 88 Win and 742's. Now everyone hunts with a bolt action most in .308--go figure.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The way Remington is "run" is immaterial. Obviously, if they didn't sell, they wouldn't produce it. My point is that there is a huge variety of boltguns from a huge variety of manufacturers. More than at any other time in history. Yet one pump. Zero variety. Why? Because they don't sell well enough for any other manufacturer to explore the potential. Not saying it's right or wrong but there it is.
swiftak
Member
I agree they were mostly a Northeast thing. Don't know anyone who uses one anymore, but I still see them for sale so someone must be buying them.
760 and 7600 pump guns are popular as deer rifles for good reason.
Rugged, lightweight accurate rifles fully capable of shots out to 300 yards.
Doesn't matter if you have a bolt gun or a semi-auto, unspported very few people shoot farther than 300 yard at deer.
Making an ACCURATE follow up shot with a 760 is just as fast as making one with an 870, and the controls are the same. You don't have to 'pump' it, when you pull that trigger with your hand on the fore-end that rifle darn near unlocks itself and you lock back into battery fith a fresh round bringing it back down on target from the recoil. The 742/7400 might be a little faster--but until you get into AR-10 territory and straight line recoil accurate off hand shooting is about equal to any auto loader of the same caliber.
The 760/7600 handles full power rifle cartridges rather than the 'assault rifle' cartridge of the sks.
I'd give the edge to a heavy stocked M1A in speed, all that weight soaks up a good amount of recoil.
Why don't we seem more of these designs?
Colt (by agreement with Winchester) dropped their pump action centerfires at the turn of the last century. JMB (as far as I know--correct me if I'm wrong) didn't create a pump rifle design that was really successful, and by the time the rifle cartridge firing pump gun was realized he was well on the way to making semi-auto and full auto guns.
They are somewhat of an anachronism, but a successful one.
Copnsider how many Italian 'lightning' clones and Taurus Thunderbolts have sold a century after Colt stopped making their pump gun. Colt's patent didn't expire on their design until the 30-40's--so noone could use their design. The Taurus in internally different (an upscaled rimfire pump) they have never made one in 44 Magnum. This I would buy.
Remington had a long evolution into the 760.. and as far as I know was the only other American manufacturer to market a pump action centerfire rifle.
Other than the short lived IMI Timber Wolf I cant think of another centerfire model.
Rugged, lightweight accurate rifles fully capable of shots out to 300 yards.
Doesn't matter if you have a bolt gun or a semi-auto, unspported very few people shoot farther than 300 yard at deer.
Making an ACCURATE follow up shot with a 760 is just as fast as making one with an 870, and the controls are the same. You don't have to 'pump' it, when you pull that trigger with your hand on the fore-end that rifle darn near unlocks itself and you lock back into battery fith a fresh round bringing it back down on target from the recoil. The 742/7400 might be a little faster--but until you get into AR-10 territory and straight line recoil accurate off hand shooting is about equal to any auto loader of the same caliber.
The 760/7600 handles full power rifle cartridges rather than the 'assault rifle' cartridge of the sks.
I'd give the edge to a heavy stocked M1A in speed, all that weight soaks up a good amount of recoil.
Why don't we seem more of these designs?
Colt (by agreement with Winchester) dropped their pump action centerfires at the turn of the last century. JMB (as far as I know--correct me if I'm wrong) didn't create a pump rifle design that was really successful, and by the time the rifle cartridge firing pump gun was realized he was well on the way to making semi-auto and full auto guns.
They are somewhat of an anachronism, but a successful one.
Copnsider how many Italian 'lightning' clones and Taurus Thunderbolts have sold a century after Colt stopped making their pump gun. Colt's patent didn't expire on their design until the 30-40's--so noone could use their design. The Taurus in internally different (an upscaled rimfire pump) they have never made one in 44 Magnum. This I would buy.
Remington had a long evolution into the 760.. and as far as I know was the only other American manufacturer to market a pump action centerfire rifle.
Other than the short lived IMI Timber Wolf I cant think of another centerfire model.
SSN Vet
Member
I'd really like a 760, but with a Marlin 336 sporting a Williams FP already in the safe, the need for a 100 yd, iron sighted brush rifle is filled, and there are just to many other guns out there I'd rather spend my money on (mostly handguns).
And if you think 870s and 760s cycle fast... get your hands on a Winchester 1200 speed pump, which unlocks when the trigger is pulled so the recoil cycles the pump almost by itself.
And if you think 870s and 760s cycle fast... get your hands on a Winchester 1200 speed pump, which unlocks when the trigger is pulled so the recoil cycles the pump almost by itself.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Put me down for a good .44Mag pump too!
PreMod70
Member
People that walk while hunting favor the pump, those that don't go for the rest.
Dr. Rob said:
I think that Browning made a pump action version of the civilian BAR at one point. If I'm not mistaken, it was called the BPR. Also, there was a pump action version of the AK, I think imported by Century Arms for a short time. I've never seen one in person - only online and in catalogs.
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mortablunt
Member
It could be a safety issue. Most modern rifle ammo is pointed and conical. In a pump action, this normally means a horizontal tubular magazine with the cartridges arrayed end to end. What's to stop the nose of one bullet from setting off the primer of the one in front of it?
mainmech48
Member
Remington 760/7600 rifles use a box magazine. Ditto the Browning BPRs. "Spitzer" type projectiles aren't an issue with these.
The old Remington 141 had a spiral groove in its magazine tube specifically to offset the pointed noses of their 150 gr. .35 Remington loads.
With the advent of Hornady's LeveRevolution loaded ammo and (recently) component projectiles, it is now possible to use the more ballistically efficient spire-point bullets in virtually any of the most commonly encountered tubular magazine hunting rifles. To be fair, I have heard that some older Marlin LAs may require the installation of a new, revamped cartridge lifter for the best feed reliability with these loads. Not a biggie cost-wise, IMHO.
I'm a Geezer and a southpaw, so LAs and pumps (being the most "ambi-friendly" of my limited options at the time) were about the most practical "repeating" hunting rifles I could afford. At one time or another, I've owned at least one example of most of the more common makes and models out there.
There are a few CF pumps that I regret having let go of, most notably a nice older 760 in .30-06 and a Savage 170 in .35 Rem. that was astonishingly accurate and effective on whitetails in the timber.
Currently, I'm down to just a very few "never willingly part with" pumps: My beloved IMI Timberwolf .357, my LH Remington 870 Wingmaster, a somewhat battered old Remington 572 and two pre-Taurus Rossi M62s. I have several more LAs, but the Timberwolf and the .22 RF pumps see more range and "fun" time than most anything else I have.
FWIW, there's a very good article on this very subject by John Barsness in the October 2011 issue of "Guns" magazine entitled "No Handicap".
The old Remington 141 had a spiral groove in its magazine tube specifically to offset the pointed noses of their 150 gr. .35 Remington loads.
With the advent of Hornady's LeveRevolution loaded ammo and (recently) component projectiles, it is now possible to use the more ballistically efficient spire-point bullets in virtually any of the most commonly encountered tubular magazine hunting rifles. To be fair, I have heard that some older Marlin LAs may require the installation of a new, revamped cartridge lifter for the best feed reliability with these loads. Not a biggie cost-wise, IMHO.
I'm a Geezer and a southpaw, so LAs and pumps (being the most "ambi-friendly" of my limited options at the time) were about the most practical "repeating" hunting rifles I could afford. At one time or another, I've owned at least one example of most of the more common makes and models out there.
There are a few CF pumps that I regret having let go of, most notably a nice older 760 in .30-06 and a Savage 170 in .35 Rem. that was astonishingly accurate and effective on whitetails in the timber.
Currently, I'm down to just a very few "never willingly part with" pumps: My beloved IMI Timberwolf .357, my LH Remington 870 Wingmaster, a somewhat battered old Remington 572 and two pre-Taurus Rossi M62s. I have several more LAs, but the Timberwolf and the .22 RF pumps see more range and "fun" time than most anything else I have.
FWIW, there's a very good article on this very subject by John Barsness in the October 2011 issue of "Guns" magazine entitled "No Handicap".
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oldfool
Member
I want 'em to make a carbine length 7600 in 357
reliable proven design (with much stouter loads than 357)
not for a benchrest target gun
not to mow down zombies like grass
not even for bambi
I already own a pair of 38/357 lever actions
I just want a reliable 357 pumper carbine
PS
someone noted the Taurus Thunderbolt series (Lightning copy, more or less, targeting the CAS folks)
it was a dismal product failure for them, unreliable, they don't make 'em at all now, and extreme few of the 357s ever even made it into the wild
reliable proven design (with much stouter loads than 357)
not for a benchrest target gun
not to mow down zombies like grass
not even for bambi
I already own a pair of 38/357 lever actions
I just want a reliable 357 pumper carbine
PS
someone noted the Taurus Thunderbolt series (Lightning copy, more or less, targeting the CAS folks)
it was a dismal product failure for them, unreliable, they don't make 'em at all now, and extreme few of the 357s ever even made it into the wild
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