Why every household NEEDS a rifle...

[Alaska444]

Absurd!

No one "needs" to own a rifle and certainly not the majority of Americans.

Anyone should have the ability to own and AR and should have one based on their own decisions instead of the advice of some gunshop owner.

There are plenty of communities with crime rates so low you have no basis to tell them they have a "need" for any firearms. An individual family may decide to or may not. Their informed decision and their right to exercise it is more important than your advice to own it (or the advice of an Anti not to).

There are plenty of individual families that do.

You can NOT apply a universal statement because of the variability in conditions except to say that everyone should have the choice to have one. This is a "one tool" approach to addressing all problems.

What we have to insist upon is that the individual who is not threat to anyone else have the INALIENABLE right to keep and bear arms. Not the requirement or be prohibited, but the the right to decide if they want to.

Dear HSO,

While I agree in general with our statements, crime stats are a bit deceptive in that home invasions occur in every type of community and are not immune from that. I live in northern Idaho where lots of folks up here are lulled into the concept that they don't have to lock their doors. Thankfully, there is truth in that statement especially since I left my garage door open last night when we went out to canoe at the lake. Nearly 3 hours later and everything was still intact.

However, it is also the same community where a few years back, the country witnessed one of the worst home invasion/kidnapping crimes every committed in the US.

http://www.nwcn.com/archive/62338187.html

The killer was apparently driving down I-90 and saw the kids playing outside their yard near a very remote part of town by the "Wolf Lodge." From that, he went back that night, killed the parents in a home invasion and kidnapped the two children. The link above describes the sister recounting how the kidnapper killed her brother in front of her and then burned his body also in front of her.

Even in "low" crime communities, the most horrible crimes are committed. I believe it was a town in Georgia a few years back that required all households to own a gun. I have to date been unable to persuade our grown kids living up here of the need to be security focussed especially with two young children. There reply, oh dad, there isn't any crime here. Hmmm, tell that to the Joseph Edward Duncan III's of this world.

I believe we should all have at least a shotgun in every house since there is no way to predict where one of these creeps will turn up. The kidnapping and murder near the Wolf Lodge was not supposed to happen in such a low crime area but it did. Unfortunately, this is the same sad sort of story in hundreds of other low crime areas as well. You cannot predict or prevent it from happening.

There really is no such thing as a "safe" neighborhood when there are an estimated 100 serial killers active in the US at any given time.

 

[Alaska444]

So what do you propose? Annual sanity checks administered by the government?

I would think that all private businesses reserve the right to not do business with someone if they chose not to. I would also suspect that this "opinion" would not be publically voiced or recorded.

All households or people do not "need" a rifle. Admittedly, a rifle is generally easier to utilize accurately than a handgun.

If I could only own one gun, it would not be a rifle, it would be a shotgun. That being stated, I believe every household should have at least one gun where you know how to use it.

 

[JagerRanger]

[snip]

It seems logical to restrict ownership for folks who seek mental-health help, but I think it's counter productive. If simply reaching out for help ostracizes an otherwise-normal citizen, and restricts their rights and self-determination, they sure as hell won't seek it.

[snip]

TCB

I agree.

The government is already classifying Americans to all kinds of groups that ought to be monitored or certain rights rescinded from.

Hypothetical: Man's Mom dies and he goes to see his primary doc for help for anxiety / insomnia, and the good doc prescribes Xanax or maybe Remeron. This could be construed by a nice government overloard as being mentally ill due to "seeking mental help."

Yeah, I'd rather start drinking than losing my God-given right to posses firearms.

 

[JagerRanger]

[snip]
By the way the Swiss, take their rifle home upon serving a short hitch in whatever they call their force of fighting men over there. I was told this by someone who lives there. he said that in time of crisis, they are supposed to take the rifle and form a standing army. I don't know how that would work out for them, but there aren't many if any swiss folks murdered with these rifles. maybe that's how they make the cheese, don't know.

[snip]

The Swiss are actually furiously debating whether or not to discontinue the tradition keeping so many guns at home. The support has eroded, with opposition led by women, doctors and police, who claim that the easy availability of arms facilitates domestic violence, suicides and homicides.

According to exit polls a year ago, 57% of voters rejected the initiative to ban the guns at homes. That was close.

 

[hso]

Citing 1 in 4 people suffer from mental illness is misleading and pure hyperbole when put in the context of gun ownership. The more accurate statement is that 1 in 4 people in this country will suffer some form of mental illness. That doesn't mean that 1 in 4 will suffer schizophrenia (the actual number is more like 1.1%), it means that situational depression, short term depression, chronic depression as well as all the less common forms of mental illness like bipolar disorder as well as schizophrenia is included.

The majority of the forms of mental illness do not make sufferers a threat to commit a mass shooting, Using their suffering as an excuse for firearms prohibitions is specious.

How would we practically prevent people with threatening metal disorders from accessing firearms? NICS already blocks access if the person has been "adjudicated mentally defective". Do we lower the threshold to some criteria that doesn't involve a due process assessment? Would we have it based on reporting the diagnosis of a disorder? Since Richards and Loughner weren't being treated before they committed their mass shootings what good would it do to make the bar treatment instead of adjudication. Since Holmes and Cho were the only two mass shooting criminals that had received any treatment should we look at setting the bar at treatment instead of adjudicated as incompetent? Do you want that sort of opinion by a single physician to be the bar we set for deciding a right? Should we instead come up with some way to denying the exercise of a guaranteed right based on something more deliberate instead of one person's professional opinion?
Like a court deciding you're a possible threat and not competent to purchase a firearm, which is the current condition.

 

[ugaarguy]

(hmmm, how's the over penetration of that .223/5.56 in a domestic environment?

Less than the over-penetration of shotguns and service handguns. It's been discussed many times here on THR.

 

[One_Jackal]

What concerns me is someone trying to scare kids into security mode. Yes. horrible things do happen but life is a game of chance. There is a better chance of winning the lottery than encountering a serial killer. I can only prepare for the things that are likely to happen. 54 people are killed by lightning every year in the US but I don't go into panic mode because a thunderstorm is nearby.

 

[22-rimfire]

I suspect that more than 25% of Americans will suffer some form of mental illness during their lifetime. I for one might suffer depression if I could not go shooting now and then to "relieve some stress".

Lets trust that the US we continues to assume "innocent until proven guilty" and laws or restrictions are based actual behavior versus predictive behavior.

 

[Tcruse]

Several comments:
1) I think that we all would like to be 100% in predicting who will commit such insane violent actions. It will never be 100%, but better to not over regulate.
2) Reduction in the damage of these attacks can be accomplished by good guys that are accomplish in use of the firearms they own.
3) Our country would be better served to make gun safety and basic shooting a requirement for HS degree. A NRA style first shooter class should be a requirement for every 16-19 year old.

The question of do I NEED a rifle (or shotgun) is something that I have not answered. I have a few handguns and go to the range about 1 or 2 times a week, have taked several classes and done some shooting leagues. I expect to continue to practice and increase my skill. So, fairly sure that should I need to use my Glock in a SD/HD case I would be reasonably prepared.
Now, I have some interest in AR style rifle. But not really as many places that offer a good range experience and cost of practice ammo could get high. The local ranges require HP ammo for rifle practice. So, if I have the rifle and do not practice enough to have a high skill level, is it a good decision?

 

[Birch Knoll]

The majority of the forms of mental illness do not make sufferers a threat to commit a mass shooting, Using their suffering as an excuse for firearms prohibitions is specious.

Indeed, the majority of forms of "mental illness" are not even worthy of the name. Many are simply within the range of normal human variation. Are you shy? That's a disorder. Outgoing? That, too. Are you sad after the death of a loved one? Yup, disorder. The psychiatric profession has medicalized virtually the entire range of human experience, to the point that virtually everyone is diagnose-able with one disorder or another under the DSM-IV.

 

[easyg]

However, for the majority of law abiding citizens I come to you today and tell you that you need to own a rifle.

I disagree.

For the vast majority of people a handgun is a far better choice than either a rifle or shotgun.
Here's why:


Evil can strike at any time, and often without any warning whatsoever.
And the rifle (or the shotgun) is most likely not going to be at hand when you really need it.....


Are you going to have your rifle with you when you're walking down your driveway to get the mail?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when walking your dog around the yard or down the street?

Are you going to have your rifle in your hand when answering the door bell?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand while you're relaxing on the deck or front porch, sipping a cold beverage?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when you're working on your car in the garage?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when you're working in the yard or the garden?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when you step out to turn off the lawn sprinkler before going to bed?

Do you keep your rifle beside you when you're sitting at the dinner table with the wife and kids?

Do you carry your rifle with you when you go in to the kitchen to fix yourself a sandwich or a drink?

Do you carry your rifle with you when you have to answer nature's call and go to the bathroom?

How easy or quickly can you get to your rifle while you're in your truck waiting for the light to change?

Do you carry your rifle while walking from your house to your truck?

Do you carry your rifle while walking from your truck to your workplace?

Do you carry your rifle when grocery shopping or pumping gas?

Do you have your rifle at hand while washing your truck?



I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Rifles are great but the handgun is the weapon that you're most likely to actually have on you when you really need one.

 

[hyattnc]

I truly respect all views and opinions. You can tell me all day you dont need one but there will come a time when you will change your mind quickly and come banging on my door wanting buy my stockpile. Look things seem calm now and they always are right before the storm. Think of Paris France in the 20s when everything was booming. No one suspected they might see Nazi tanks in their backyard but then all of a sudden it happened. No one thought the levy would break in new orleans but it did.

So in times of uncertainty you will change your mind. The time to get a flashlight at the store is not during the blackout and the time to get a rifle is not while all hell is breaking loose. What safeguards our world is not Bloombergs Army and it certainly aint Rahms Army. What safeguards our world are good men who are willing to bear arms and protect our way of life.

 

[armoredman]

This what I've been told about firearms availability.



As for "mental illness", I remember reading a few years ago that one group of people considered coffee drinking a sign of mental illness. That the "great minds" loose in academia today near the 2A with a real mental illness law, and you will see all those people who took Welbutrin to stop smoking abruptly forever denied their rights because of prescribed psych meds. I am also of the solid opinion that many mental illnesses are overblown to sell high priced meds. There are genuine mental illnesses, and the treatment for them can be long and painful for everyone, but the numbers of those who are truly mentally ill are, in my partially informed opinion, highly exaggerated for many reasons, most of which connect to money.

Back to having a rifle in the home - I like it, but I think a handgun is more maneuverable indoors, FOR ME. True "operators" with house to house experience can certainly make a more informed choice for their use. One thing I can say - I don't like, (wait for boos, hisses, catcalls and thrown objects), ARs. If I am using a 5.56mm rifle, this is the one.





That's just my $.02, generally worth less than you paid for it.

 

[Birch Knoll]

You can tell me all day you dont need one but there will come a time when you will change your mind quickly and come banging on my door wanting buy my stockpile. [...] So in times of uncertainty you will change your mind. The time to get a flashlight at the store is not during the blackout and the time to get a rifle is not while all hell is breaking loose. What safeguards our world is not Bloombergs Army and it certainly aint Rahms Army. What safeguards our world are good men who are willing to bear arms and protect our way of life.

This is hilarious. Who, exactly, do you think you're preaching to, here on this firearms forum?

 

[easyg]

I truly respect all views and opinions. You can tell me all day you dont need one but there will come a time when you will change your mind quickly and come banging on my door wanting buy my stockpile.

Do you own Hyatt Guns in charlotte?

Think of Paris France in the 20s when everything was booming. No one suspected they might see Nazi tanks in their backyard but then all of a sudden it happened.

Guess what...
The French were not unarmed at the time. Plenty of Frenchmen owned firearms. And there were plenty of French war veterans who had seen combat before.
But civilians armed with rifles cannot compete with bombers, fighter planes, artillery, mortars, crew served machine-guns, and divisions of armor and mechanized infantry.

No one thought the levy would break in new orleans but it did.

Actually, everyone with any sense at all knew that the levy could fail under the force of a category 5 hurricane.
The smart people had already evacuated the area.

So in times of uncertainty you will change your mind. The time to get a flashlight at the store is not during the blackout and the time to get a rifle is not while all hell is breaking loose. What safeguards our world is not Bloombergs Army and it certainly aint Rahms Army. What safeguards our world are good men who are willing to bear arms and protect our way of life.

A rifle is a handy tool in certain situations without a doubt.
But it's just another tool.
And keep in mind that if you're ever forced to "bug out" on foot, you will only be able to carry so much weight (water, food, ammo, medical supplies, survival supplies, etc...).
And a man wandering from town to town carrying a rifle will probably look like a threat.

 

[kcshooter]

Quote:
This is odd, to me.

Really? Why? I certainly wouldn't sell a gun to someone who seemed drunk or disoriented or talking to voices in his head.

Are you a psychological medical health professional? Is the OP? Then who the hell do you think you are to decide who does and doesn't get to buy a gun!?

If a person is talking to themselves, you assume mental illness, and take it upon yourself to disarm them?

For the vast majority of people a handgun is a far better choice than either a rifle or shotgun.

I agree 100%.

 

[Birch Knoll]

Are you a psychological medical health professional? Is the OP? Then who the hell do you think you are to decide who does and doesn't get to buy a gun!?

I think I'm the guy selling the gun. Is that not enough?

Would you sell a gun to a person who is agitated and excitedly and incoherently rambling about the lizard people who use satellites to read his mind and control his thoughts?

 

[kcshooter]

Would you sell a gun to a person who is agitated and excitedly and incoherently rambling about the lizard people who use satellites to read his mind and control his thoughts?

Is this something you run into a lot? How many times have you run into a person such as this? Sure, if you want to come up with an argument, you can create any situation you want in fantasyland, but just how many times have you met someone rambling about such nonsense as your ridiculous example?

OP states it happens a few times a year. I find that to be a bit unbelievable. Therefore, I believe he is taking it upon himself to decide who he deems stable enough to own a gun and who does not pass his arbitrary qualifiers. Unless he has some sort of background in mental health conditions, which I doubt, who is he to decide?

 

[Birch Knoll]

How many times have you run into a person such as this?

Never, so far. Why should that matter?

just how many times have you met someone rambling about such nonsense as your ridiculous example?

Ask the FFL 7 miles from me who had someone very much as I described in his shop. He refused to sell to the individual, and rightfully so. Other FFLs in the area were notified, in the event the same person tried shopping elsewhere.

OP states it happens a few times a year.

I have no trouble believing that, at least if it's in a populous urban center.

Therefore, he is taking it upon himself to decide who he deems stable enough to own a gun and who does not.

He is taking upon himself to decide to whom he is willing to sell a gun. That's the same sort of discretion any merchant has, selling any item. An artist might refuse to sell a painting to someone who wants to buy it because it matches their couch. A dog breeder may refuse to sell a puppy to someone he feels would not take care of it properly. Surely a gun dealer can refuse to sell a gun to someone they feel would be irresponsible or dangerous with it.

Unless he has some sort of background in mental health conditions, which I doubt.

If you think you need a degree in psychiatry to recognize severe mental illness when you see it, then I suspect you haven't seen a whole lot of crazy up close and personal. Plenty of gun dealers do.

 

[JagerRanger]

Citing 1 in 4 people suffer from mental illness is misleading and pure hyperbole when put in the context of gun ownership. The more accurate statement is that 1 in 4 people in this country will suffer some form of mental illness. [snip]

I case you are addressing my post where I brought up the government stat that says that approximately 25% of Americans suffer from mental illness, I'm happy to address that.

My point was that should the G want, they could declare all 'mental illness' Americans defective and prohibit any gun ownership from them.

You're quite right, the word includes a variety of 'mental illnesses, most of which ought not to cause any alarm.

The http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=mental-illness-in-america writes in 2008, "In any given year 26 percent of American adults suffer from mental disorders, based on guidelines in the official handbook for diagnosing mental illness, the DSM-IV.

Only about a fifth of the cases are serious enough to cause a major disruption of everyday life, however, which has prompted some experts to call for more stringent diagnostic criteria. Others counter that tracking mild symptoms is important for preventing their escalation into more severe illness."

"Mental Disorder" sounds rather bad to ordinary American, and many here are ready to throw them to the wolves.

It is really up to the big G how many of us are being declared possessing "Mental Disorder." I'm afraid that that train has left the station already. The government uses the data in their possession.

If memory serves, 95% of the world's Ritalin is consumed in America. That's a lot of Mental Disorders - a whole bunch of kids growing up that could be denied the right to bear arms.

 

[Birch Knoll]

I really love the underlying assumption that someone who has chosen to be in the business of selling guns would not only act against their economic interest in refusing to sell a gun to a customer, but also be the type of person who is inclined to deny anyone the right to a gun. We don't go into this business because we don't believe in the right to keep and bear arms.

If a dealer won't sell a gun to someone, folks, there's probably a good reason for that.

 

[LAK]

Addressing the thread topic, I will quote from the late Col. Cooper, with unreserved agreement;

"The rifle is the queen of personal weapons"

As for mental illness, it is apparently rife in all three Branches at the highest levels of our government. Which controls the world's deadliest arsenal and the men and women who operate it.

 

[hyattnc]

Any small business in any town center gets its share of customers who are not all there. You wouldnt blame a store owner of a 7-11 for calling the police on an individual who is clearly not coherent and loitering in the store. You wouldnt blame a car dealer for refusing to sell to a licensed driver who cant seem to test drive the car safely or to someone who is so old that its clear they really cant drive.

I want to make money like the next guy but I want to do it in a responsible manner which does not keep me up at night. I will not sell to someone who in my opinion is not all there and believe me we have plenty of those just like any other business in town. Now I know I will catch some heat for saying that in this forum but I am really protecting our rights by not allowing certain individuals abuse those rights. I do not intend to arm another Mr. Holmes. Im not a doctor or qualified to make such decisions but we do our best and act on our instinct. If you are not all there or talking about weird things in my store than you need to find another store.

 

[Tipro]

Just want to say I'm glad to see that Hyatt has a presence on THR. I live less than two miles from your store (yes, in the ghetto) and just bought an m9 from you that was advertised in one of your emails. It's gorgeous and a blast to shoot. Been waiting for yall to get in a decent S/S used shotgun... PM me!

 

[Steve CT]

Sorry to be confrontational, but

"Every Home In America Needs A Rifle" is a BIG reach. I would say that every home in America where a responsible adult wants the ability to defend that home NEEDS that right. There are lots of homes that I know of that not only don't need, but should not have a firearm. They lack the discipline and control needed to properly meet their responsibility as a responsible gun owner.

When I look at some of the people that I come in contact with daily, it terrifies me that they have access to a car, much less a firearm.