Corporal punishment & guns in a household

[Maser]

I am posting this at a few other shooting related sites so don't be surprised if you see this topic a lot.

Ok, friday is technically the last day of school for all the schools in my town, but it's also a day we don't have to show up because it's an "activity" day. Now at my little brother's school they are habing something called the water olympics which is nothing but just things to do with water and get wet and have fun. Anyways, my brother got in trouble for mouthing off to his teacher today and he got banned from the activity day and he got mad and cussed out his teacher and called her the worst thing you could ever call a woman. No, I don't mean the "B" word, but go to the next letter and that's the word he called her. Now my dad is a pretty easy going guy, but he does NOT stand for us "kids" disrespecting adults. I was home and had a friend over and we were watching a DVD in the family room with my brother when my dad came home and my mom showed my dad the referal that my brother had and all he had to do was look at my brother and he got up and assumed the position. Dropped his shorts and exposed his little spiderman boxers and 4 swats with the belt and it was all over. My brother pulls up his shorts and my dad makes him call his teacher and appologize to her.

Was nothing out of the ordinary, but my friend with me made a big deal about it. He was asking how I could live in such an abusive household. I told him that we are not abused here. There is a difference between corporal punishment and child abuse. Child abuse is nothing more than the sensless violence towards kids for no reason. Corporal punishment is nothing more than just a form of disipline. I would much rather get a spanking for being bad rather than be grounded and have things taken away from me. My parents enforce this type of punishment because it's how they were punished and it worked with them. Of all the spankings I have gotten in my lifetime there has never been one time where I felt I didn't deserve it.

The next thing my friend brought up was the fact that my house has guns in it. He asked if I had gotten spanked and if I would ever have got a gun and shot my parents because of it. I actually said no before he was even done asking the question. Even though my parents are strict and hard on me at times, I love them and they punish me because they love me and want me to turn out the right way. I then told him it would have to be a real extreme case such as my dad being drunk and on top of my little brother and punching him in the head and face as hard as he could for no reason. Then I wouldn't hesitate to put two slugs in his head, but something like that would never happen. My dad has NEVER been abusive when drunk. In fact he acts like a kid when he drinks too much and we have lots of fun together.

Anyways, after a few more minutes of arguing I manage to get my friend to stop talking about it. In a way I found his argument kind of offensive because he made my family out to be some barbaric family that beats the hell out of their kids for no reason. What do you guys think? Did I handle this the right way? If you have any more suggestions I could use when I see my friend again then please tell me.

 

[real_name]

I then told him it would have to be a real extreme case such as my dad being drunk and on top of my little brother and punching him in the head and face as hard as he could for no reason. Then I wouldn't hesitate to put two slugs in his head.

Congratulations, you have told someone that under certain circumstances you would shoot your Father.
This can be, and often is, taken out of context and used against you.
I hope for your (and obviously his) benefit he doesn't get shot by an intruder with one of your guns, or die from an accidental/negligent discharge.

Also, does your Dad know your email address? And how it could be taken as referring to consumption of Marijuana?

Best not to advertise things like that.

 

[Maser]

I take it you're referring to my yahoo name. Thank my big brother for that. He's the one who made that yahoo account for me. My dad knows everything about me. In fact he's probly reading this right now because he's on the internet now on the family computer.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Was nothing out of the ordinary, but my friend with me made a big deal about it. He was asking how I could live in such an abusive household.

This is why far left Libs are so screwed up. The spent way too much time sitting in “time-out” and not enough time getting their asses tanned. They are bred to be wusses.

The next thing my friend brought up was the fact that my house has guns in it. He asked if I had gotten spanked and if I would ever have got a gun and shot my parents because of it.

This type of reasoning; that spankings occurring in houses with guns in them would lead to kids shooting parents is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Let’s see, there are also kitchen knives in houses. Anyone know the prevalence rate of kids stabbing their parents because they got spanked? There doesn’t exactly seem to be an epidemic of this.

In a way I found his argument kind of offensive because he made my family out to be some barbaric family that beats the hell out of their kids for no reason.

That is a problem with “peace loving” tree hugging hippiecrites. They see any physical punishment, even raising a hand to indicate the intent to punish, as abuse.

 

[pax]

You know, probably the thing I appreciated most about the way my parents handled discipline was that my mistakes and misdeeds were always kept between them & me.

If they'd have spanked me while my brother's friends were over, I'd have been pretty upset. Even more so if my brother had been disloyal to the family by blabbing about my misdeeds and my punishment to everyone in the universe.

pax

 

[pete f]

My son wrote a paper once about the story of my dad breaking his hand while spanking me. NO it was not abuse, it was me trying to be smart and sticking something in my pocket so he would hit that instead of my rear end. I knew the spanking was coming, a classic case of mom calling dad and then telling me "wait till your daddy gets home" I deserved it, I had done what I had been told not to. But I thought I would get smart and stick a couple of wooden blocks in my rear pockets, Dad got home and I would have to walk up to him and tell him what I had done then bend over with my head under his left arm and he swatted. Well the first swat was a far as he got, hitting half on and half off the wooden block broke a bone in his hand. He let go of me and just stared at me. Then reached down and pulled out the blocks with his other hand.

An hour later, my dad was home from the hospital and sporting a new cast. What was worst was for the next month I was my Dad's slave, AND I really felt terrible about hurting my dad. I have told me son, what was worst was living with the knowledge that I had hurt him. There was nothing I would not have done to have been able to take that back.

But with my son's paper, He was thoroughly interogated about his homelife by both his teacher and his school counselor, almost being forced to admit that he was "abused" by a Father who beat him. He called me and asked me to come to school to tell them what was going on. When I got there I was nearly accused of child abuse, I spoke clearly and openly that corporal punishment had been used in our house growing up, that my son had been spanked four (4) times until we discovered that isolation was a far greater punishment than spanking to him. Telling him he had to sit in the office chair for a couple of hours alone was to him, worse than cutting limbs off.

My daughter on the other hand had a behind as tender as can be and one or two spanks was enough to break her of any wrong doing, however putting her in the "chair" was merely a time for her to play imaginary games by herself. Some kids need the spanking, some do not. Done right it is a perfectly adequate and legitimate tool for behavior correction to some kids, some kids it does not work at all.

One thing, our kids and my sibs were ALWAYS punished in private. The absolute worst thing we could hear was "wait till we get home" or "wait till your daddy gets home." That alone was worth several days of good behavior if Dad was traveling. Repeat violations were UGLY.

 

[NukemJim]

Congratulations, you have told someone that under certain circumstances you would shoot your Father.

That is one way of looking at it.

Another is that he has stated that he would stop an adult using deadly force on his younger brother, a child i.e a murder in progress.

An adult male who is

drunk and on top of my little brother and punching him in the head and face as hard as he could for no reason.

would almost certainly kill a child quite possibly an adult.

The whole scenario is a nightmare.

NukemJim

 

[oh blanky]

If I did drink to the point of drunkenness, I wouldn't let my kids see me.

This may be normal for you.

The whole thing sounds like a tragic nightmare, it makes me question and possibly many others wonder what else goes on at the "casa of my dad acts nice when he's drunk".

While I hope this is not the case, I would advise you to be careful about what you post on the internet.

The best advice I ever got about using public communications devices such as phones and the internet was " Don't say anything on the phone you would not be comfortable yelling down the hall of a police station."

 

[Mannlicher]

I guess the world's all about you? You put this issue out all over the internet? Frankly, you would be better off if you had not posted any of this.

 

[afsnco]

Well, if we're talking about corporal punishment and guns in the house, we had both when I was growing up. As the country song goes, "we were cane switch raised and dirt floor poor." Heck, I remember getting quadruple jeopardy once. I got it from my teacher, then the principal, then from mom, then from dad. I can't remember what it was, but I'm sure it was a doozy. But no, it would've never occurred to me to strike back at my parents with the guns in the house, because it was instilled in me that there are eternal consequences for my actions. I can see how a kid without such a traditional upbringing could easily see things differently.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Maser, I am ashamed to see all the people here bash you for posting a moment in your personal life. I for one respect your courage in posting the backdrop information necessary to set the stage for sharing with us your encounter with an anti-gun liberal so that others can possibly learn from your experience. I would agree with others that your comment that you would shoot you dad if he was drunk beating your little brother was damaging to your argument but I can certainly understand how people say rash things when upset.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Failure to judiciously use corporal punishment is a further symptom of the belief set that says that "all use of force is bad, and never justified".

I've seen the results, and they aren't pretty. It does the kid no justice, nor the adult.

One woman I know has little tyrants that habitually walk all over her, while she, with admirable but misplaces patience, exhausts herself trying to shepherd them vaguely in the right direction to do what she requests "without using force" while the tykes run circles around her, just out of her reach, laughing. Meanwhile, her older kid, who is way too old for tantrums, is throwing a doozy...because for her, it works.

Meanwhile, my kids are already in the car, with their seatbelts on, ready to go, wondering what the hell is wrong with those kids.

 

[hso]

You folks that are piling on the kid for posting the whole story so we would understand the situation well enough to answer the one question he asked might want to re-read what he's said and think about your replies.

If Maser had said that a buddy was over and they got in an argument about coproral punishment and that it degraged into a question of how the guns in the house would be used to retaliate against his parents for that corporal punishment, folks wouldn't have gotten the whole picture and would have been asking for more details to craft a response.

None of us were there so we don't know the tone your bud used. If he had the tone of "If they swatted me like that I'd be getting one of those guns to pay'em back" then he might be an idiot, but the only way to find out is with time. He may be the typical kid without any experience with firearms beyond the fantasy world of TV/Movies/Games and as such has absolutely no appreciation of their real power and the grave responsibility they represent. He may be much worse though, and has just communicated to you that he is not mature enough or loved enough to understand that his lack of personal control could make him a poor choice for a friend.

No slight intended on your dad, but you might want to have a man to almost man talk with him about the idea of meting out punishment in front of outsiders. When I have to "talk" to one of our employees it's done in private so as not to make a display out of the conflict. If my daughter has to be disciplined it's done in quiet tones and doesn't involve others so that I'm not trying to embarass her in public. You might ask your dad if he's thought of this now that you guys are older and other folks outside the family are going to be in the house.

Also, I don't know about some of you folks, but MASER meant Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation to me.

 

[real_name]

MASER is indeed an acronym for Microwave Amplification, it says as much on the kids website.
But his Yahoo email is 'name'420@yahoo
420 is code for marijuana.
Not something I would advise around guns, or vice versa.

 

[exar]

What does his pot use have to do with anything involving this discussion? He already answered you once about this. No need to 'punish him in public'

 

[James T Thomas]

the image in the mirror

It has often been conjecture that the liberal mindset reflects the inner secret that they, the liberal, have defective minds. That they are aware of it, and know that they do not even trust themselves with the power that comes with a firearm posession. Let alone trusting another human being with such awesome power. That is the basis for his remark about having the weapons in your home. Would he, your friend, be tempted to act out of control and instead of "learning his lesson," instead reak havok and violence beyond measure because someone dared chastise him? Is it perhaps that your friend is inwardly "abusive" in his impulses too?

Yet the liberal will "trust" the law enfocement officer; a human being by the way, and the more prestigeous they are, the greater the trust. The are armed and walking amoung the public, but are the "Government." No second thoughts or fears of them. That is the local police, county, state, and FBI, etc. It's not sensible, but then, neither are they.

There is no intelectual reasoning with people whose minds are compulsively operated by emotion. They may offer a contrived rebuttal, but they will never concede, even if your logic is sound. Save you effort with your friend.

And be sure not to expose him again to the just and effective discipline of your father's household. He will refuse to understand, as that would be an admission of just who he is.

Jim

 

[WeedWhacker]

I grew up in a "traditional" household (husband, wife, dog, multiple kids); my folks believed corporal punishment was the best choice as a punishment. My dad also owned multiple firearms: some rifles and a pistol, all secured with trigger locks which we 1. knew where the keys were and 2. could pop off easily with a screwdriver. Neither of my parents drank alcohol.

Punishments could get pretty bad at times, especially when one of us did something bad, but wouldn't 'fess up. The old "round robin spankings" sure sucked. At times, I still question whether or not that was the best thing my dad could have done. I'm sure we about wore out his spankin' arm from the time I hit fifteen until I left home.

You ask if there were any circumstances where I might have wanted to get out a firearm and shoot my dad.

The thought never once entered my mind.

 

[Biker]

I agree with Exar. Pot has nothing to do with this discussion, but since it was brought up, millions of Americans use alcohol and pot every day, many of whom are responsible gun owners. Put the puritanical BS on the shelf.
Rant over.
On topic - I took a belt across my butt a time or three while growing up and I figure I learned from it. Would that the belt was employed more often today on kids.

Biker

PS
I don't smoke hootch, jus' so ya know.

 

[One of Many]

I am concerned that someone who owns firearms seems to be undisciplined enough to become drunken, and do so in the presence of children. It is certainly a bad example to children, to show them that surrendering self control is acceptable, whether it be in the form of alcoholic beverages, smoking pot, crack, meth or any other mind altering substance. The man has firearms, for which he has control (or should have), and there should never be a mixing of firearms and loss of control due to alcohol. I am not saying that moderate use of alcohol (remaining sober) should be prohibited, but drunkeness is asking for trouble when firearms are available.

 

[Sam]

#1
Maser is discussing the occurance in fairly mature manner all things considered
#2
Maser is showing pretty god judgement in the whole thing and is asking you for advise on how to deal with it further
#3
Maser's friend probably gained a greater education from the situation than Maser's brother
#4
I agree with Biker on all points with the exception of frying bacon. You should fry bacon while nude. It will ensure that you don't overcook it. Overcooked bacon(burned) is almost a sin.

Sam

 

[Biker]

Bikah San say:

"He who fry bacon in nude, burn sausage."

Biker

 

[NineseveN]

You know, the low to which some of you folks will stoop to pick with others is absolutely reprehensible.

This place has gone from "the high road" to the "holier than thou road".


Maser, your pot use (or lack thereof) is not relevant to the topic of this discussion, neither is whether or not some of these would-be-Quakers engage in oral sex or sodomy with their wives or husbands or whether or not they have or had sex out of wedlock, so let's just say that depending on who you are and what your upbringing was like, both could be right or wrong morally, but using marijuana is illegal (despite how stupid any prohibition on that level truly is)...of course, the beers that some of these thumbs and noses people conveniently forget that they stole from daddy's fridge at the tender age of 15 weren't exactly up to the statutes when they were consuming them as a minor either, but again, not really relevant to this topic.


Thanks for sharing your experience, and you seem to have a really good head on your shoulders. You presented your argument in a way that a lot of folks here couldn't have mustered the patience to. Personally, I would have been a tad offended as well, that's human nature; when folks project their own ignorance and bias onto others someone is usually gonna get offended...this thread can be held as case in point to that.

It's none of my damn business to tell your dad how to raise you, and it really isn't yours either, but if he's reading this, I would suggest that dad do the corporal punishment thing away from non-family members for more reasons than one.



As an aside, I love the whole "you should not consume alcohol in a home that has firearms in it" argument, except it’s flawed; here's a hint Sherlock, avoidance is not the same as self-control.

Avoidance removes the ability to exercise self-control by never placing oneself into the situation in the first place (i.e. how can you not be faithful to your wife if you spend every hour of your day alone on a deserted island) while self control is being able to exercise good and proper judgment while being in the realm of temptation’s grasp (i.e. having a couple of beers but not losing control to the point to where you grab the 'ol .22 and start shooting the living room couch cushions for fun).

Prohibitionists and anti-gunners have a lot in common when you get right down to it, pick your poison at will, the rhetoric is mostly the same.

 

[keano44]

Speaking as someone who has had his share of spankings when growing up, I think corporal punishment should be "brought back" as a normal form of dicipline. Now that I am married and have lived on my own for 20+ years, I like to tease my mother whenever the subject comes up and say that I got a spanking everyday, whether I needed it or not, according to my recollection. Of course, it was not nearly that bad. I got spanked when I did wrong, and if it was really bad, got it from dad when he came home from work.
Looking back, I believe that I was raised "right". I think (as possibly the greatest compliment I could ever give my parents) I would love to do as good a job raising my kids as my parents did me. The problem is, now, it is easy to get a visit from a social agency if there is a hint of a bruise or red mark on a childs bottom or back of their legs.
I am surprised at the negative comments by some in this thread. No real names were mentioned, and I feel the real point of this thread has been missed by some. To me, this is one of the best, most interesting, threads I have seen on this forum in a while, which could bring out some really good discussion about guns in the home, and how it relates to peoples upbringing, and mindsets.
There were always guns around our home when I was young. I always have guns around me now. But I never, ever think, or thought of using one because I got angry at my parents for diciplining me, or when some jerk cuts me off in traffic, etc.

 

[Smurfslayer]

What do you guys think? Did I handle this the right way? If you have any more suggestions I could use when I see my friend again then please tell me.

I think your friend is going to grow up to be a bigger candy@** than he is now, if that's even possible.

Allow me to wax Newtonian if you will, and let me relay to you a life lesson I wish I had learned a few years earlier. - Newton's 3rd law doesn't just apply to physics....

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

When you drop the c-bomb on a female of our species, it's a certainty that there will be a reaction. It may not involve a physical striking of you or your person, but you can darn well bet there's going to be some form of reaction.

Our sun rises in the east, sets in the west.
What goes up, must come down.
Drop the c-bomb on a human female, there's going to be a reaction.

Actions have consequences and extreme actions often generate extreme consequences.

corporal punishment reinforces this form of "association".

When you were very little, and stuck your finger in the socket for the first time:

1: Did it hurt?
2: Did you do it again?

When you stuck your hand into the 1 year birthday candle flame, did you cry? Did you do it again?

These are just examples to make a point. The point being that life is hard, and sometimes unfair. The sooner you learn that lesson, and learn not to dwell on the difficulties that life will bring, the more successful at life you will be. Bad thing happens, it sucks, move on to the next thing.

People who don't learn this lesson of association often look for a scapegoat, make excuses for their actions and generally attempt to place blame or 'deflect' it to somewhere else. They don't like to accept responsibility.

If your friend brings it up again, just remind him you're well adjusted and you support your parents 100%.

HTH

 

[kfranz]

Where'd your brother get off calling the teacher the C word? The message that "but he does NOT stand for us "kids" disrespecting adults" obviously hadn't made it to your brother yet. The impression probably would have gotten to him much more quickly if the teacher had just knocked him out for talking stupid...