Why fewer side eject levers?

[Malamute]

Agree with Elroys summary for the most part.

For myself, an angle eject 94 with a 1-4 or 2-7 Leupold could be very close to the near perfect general purpose knock around gun, so long as g-bears arent a consideration (and they are in my neighborhood). A 16" version might be very good with much vehicle use.

Same basic gun in 356 cal could be the larger bore alternative in that case, though they are noticably heavier than the regular 94's.

 

[Tommygunn]

Ahem all day long.
Winchester never made a true side eject 94.
Denis

YOU MOVED THE GOAL POSTS!!!!!

 

[The Alaskan]

My guess is there is a lack of market for new lever action designs. I suspect the Browning BLR is the last design and that is likely 40 or more years old. Having said that, I would love to see a more modern designed lever action. At one point I needed to do a detailed takedown and cleaning of my 336. Wow. So many screws and parts compared to my mini 14. Dont get me wrong. I love my lever action. I just wish it assembled more like a mini 14 or Mossberg 500.

I'm not even sure what you would do to "mdernize" a lever action design. I mean, really? What is left to do other than add a rail, a red dot, a surefire light, and perhaps a bayonet?

I think everything that can be done to imporove a lever gun has already been done.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

I have a Marlin 336 .35 remington with a scope for deer hunting. (Old eyes)

But for a fast handling, accurate little carbine for horse back, or the Jeep, I can't beat my model 92. 2 different intended purposes.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I'm not even sure what you would do to "mdernize" a lever action design. I mean, really? What is left to do other than add a rail, a red dot, a surefire light, and perhaps a bayonet?

I think everything that can be done to imporove a lever gun has already been done.

The one thing that stood out to me was when I took it apart was that it had lots of screws in different sizes. I have had screws come loose and if one isn't very careful it can be difficult to remember which screw goes where on a detailed clean. I needed to do a detailed clean because I was using it in a sandy dessert environment with 60 mph sustained winds (a cool and interesting event I enjoyed but am in no rush to repeat) and it had fine sand everywhere. I would like to see less screws and more tension held in place items such as is done with other semi autos. Don't get me wrong, my 30-30 spends significantly more time in my hands than any other rifle that I own. It would be the last rifle I would ever part with.

 

[The Alaskan]

It's true: lever guns, by their nature, are inherently more complex. I have never taken one apart, and I hope to never have to. As to different size screws, there is a probably a reason for it, but I don't know what it is. I'll say this though, I'd trust my Model 92 or 94 to still be working in the desert than an AR-and with less maintenance, too.

 

[AKElroy]

It's true: lever guns, by their nature, are inherently more complex. I have never taken one apart, and I hope to never have to. As to different size screws, there is a probably a reason for it, but I don't know what it is. I'll say this though, I'd trust my Model 92 or 94 to still be working in the desert than an AR-and with less maintenance, too.

YouTube is your friend for detailed dissemble videos. I managed to get a .308 round into the tube and under the feed ramp on my 94 (incidentally, you might want to learn from this experience and not take both a .308 and a .30-30 to the range at the same time).

It is actually a good thing that all the screws are different sizes, they only go back together the right way.

 

[AKElroy]

That's interesting input folks.

My reasoning is that whilst I enjoy iron sight shooting and would use a lever for it on the range, my eye sight isn't great so feel that if I was to take the rifle muntjac shooting a scope would be better for the quarry at 1st and last light.

The recent 94 AE's scope just fine, and are good shooters. They also have poor, ridiculously heavy triggers IME, and the one I had (and sold to a dealer) was unreliable in getting a round in the chamber.

If you are looking for a scoped lever gun for deer, I would stick with a 336, specifically an older model. They can be found on GB for what you will pay new, but the older ones (really pre 80's IMO) are some of the best made period. I found a pristine 336 on GB a few years back advertised as unfired, 1974 DOM, Came in the original box, with zero evidence of being fired. It is my favorite deer-stand companion, and it shoots 1-1.5 MOA all day long, hot or cold.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm not even sure what you would do to "mdernize" a lever action design. I mean, really? What is left to do other than add a rail, a red dot, a surefire light, and perhaps a bayonet?

Mossberg already did that, producing something that looks like miscegenation between a Marlin and a tricked-out AR 15.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

It's true: lever guns, by their nature, are inherently more complex. I have never taken one apart, and I hope to never have to. As to different size screws, there is a probably a reason for it, but I don't know what it is. I'll say this though, I'd trust my Model 92 or 94 to still be working in the desert than an AR-and with less maintenance, too.

Though it felt just gritty it worked just fine. When I started taking it apart, I didn't expect it to be so complex so I didn't label what screws went where or the order I took in apart. I ended taking a bag of clean gun parts to my local good gunsmith. He laughed and gladly put it together for me for a modest fee.

 

[Greg528iT]

Can you picture John Wayne or Chuck Connors swing cocking their lever actions with a scope on top?

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I don't have many scoped rifles just because I don't care for a scope, but, I do like Marlin lever guns although as others have stated I too prefer a good peep sight on them. Perhaps Marlin has the side eject mechanism's tied up through patents? One of my nephew's has a Marlin 336 with a 4X scope for white tail deer which I have shot a few times. It is not a bad experience......

 

[PowerG]

Because angle/side eject on a lever action is an unholy abomination, and putting a scope on a lever action is a violation of the laws of nature. If John Moses Browning wanted us to have scopes on our lever guns, he would have designed a bolt action.

Now go do 12 hail mary's, 10 our father's, and flog yourself 10 times for this sacrilegious heresy, and never have these Satanic thoughts again.

=)

Okay now that the fun is over...

About the only reason for side eject is, as you surmise, the use of a scope. Problem is, putting a scope on a lever gun pretty much eliminates all of the best qualities for which people admire lever guns. A stock Winchester (because that is the ONLY lever gun) is a rugged, dependable, naturally pointing, quick to shoulder-aim-fire, fast follow up shot, type of gun. It is easily carried in a scabbard, slung on the back, tied to a canoe (my preference), hung on a 4 wheeler or snow machine, behind the seat of the truck, etc etc etc.

The moment you put a scope on a lever gun, ALL of that is taken away. Then it becomes this slow to aim and fire, delicate, thing that you have to keep in a padded case until you're ready to shoot.

Now I took a hog last year with a friends 30-30 Marlin with a scope. It worked well. Even at 25 yards, the scope let me be certain for that behind the ear shot hogs require, which would have been more challenging without the scope. I missed the second hog, one the run, clean because of a lack of target acquisition.

Once you put a scope on a lever gun, it becomes a single shot affair. Given the inherent diminished accuracy of the flat nose bullets required in a lever gun, compared to pointy bullets in a bolt gun, there is no reason to give up that accuracy unless you get all the benefits that come with a lever action.

There is no "inherent diminished accuracy" with a flat-nosed bullet.

 

[The Alaskan]

There is no "inherent diminished accuracy" with a flat-nosed bullet.

Hmmmm. Interesting. That comment pretty much flies in the face of a century of conventional wisdom. BUT, as I have nothing concrete at the moment to offer to counter your comment, I'll take your word for it.

Although, I would ask why one never ever sees lever action rifles, or, flat nosed bullets for that matter, at any of the highest levels of competition, such as The Palma Matches, Camp Perry, The Olympics...(well, aside from 38 WC I guess)...come to think of it, I've never seen leverguns, or any ammo with wide flat noses, punching cloverleaf, one-hole shot groups, even at 100 yards. Don't get me wrong, my 44 lever gun prints 1.5 -ish inch groups at 100 yrds (with handloads) but it doesn't compare to my bolt gun with HPBT ammo-especially past 100 yrds.

 

[PowerG]

The bolt action platform is indeed capable of more accuracy than a lever, no question. That has really nothing to do with the shape of the bullets, however, it's a function of the design of the action. The aerodynamic differences between pointed and flat-nosed bullets have more to do with range than accuracy, by reducing flight time you reduce the effects of gravity (and other factors) on the bullet, and allow for a flatter trajectory. So it becomes easier to shoot accurately at longer ranges, but flat-nosed bullets are quite capable of shooting with extreme accuracy at any range, it's just much more difficult to do so.

The other points in your post are spot on. I do quite a bit of my hunting with an open sight Marlin 1895, and the things I like most about this rig would be largely negated with the addition of a scope. The rifle was bought back in the days when we hunted deer with dogs around here, and most shots were taken at short ranges on deer moving pretty fast. Admittedly though my vision is still good enough to see what I'm doing, I can certainly sympathize with people who can't see well enough to use the open sights, as mine is definitely headed that way lol.

 

[mickey.moose]

I can only remember seeing 1 guy actually hunting with a lever action in the last 40 years.

My primary hunting rifle is a Browning BLR (.308 Winchester, Leupold VX-2 3-9x40). A fellow I sometimes hunt with often uses a scoped Marlin 336.

 

[Tommygunn]

The bolt action platform is indeed capable of more accuracy than a lever, no question. That has really nothing to do with the shape of the bullets, however, it's a function of the design of the action.

Eyup.
Also, due to the design a bolt-action is easier to "bed" than a lever action if they are similar to the 1894 design, with a separate stock & forend. Another factor is the tube magazines most levers have, which require attachment points to the barrel, and that effects barrel harmonics and can cause inaccuracies.
It's not that lever actions are inaccurate, but it is a matter of degree and a finally made bolt action is capable of handling higher power rounds and is also more accurate.
I say this and I have 5 lever actions and two bolt actions, so I favor levers ... but facts are facts.

 

[Scrumbag]

Though it felt just gritty it worked just fine. When I started taking it apart, I didn't expect it to be so complex so I didn't label what screws went where or the order I took in apart. I ended taking a bag of clean gun parts to my local good gunsmith. He laughed and gladly put it together for me for a modest fee.

Ah, "Bag o' gun - just had hot water"